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Win 231/HP 38 being phased out/ discontinued
- Thread starter leewongfei
- Start date
er.. OK, then Hodgdon would benefit by selling a modern chemistry powder that mimics the behavior of 231.
My point was that there's a lot of people who still want to use 231, and Hodgdon knows it. That's a lot of customers they'd make happy with a "H231" or something like it.
Also shooters outpost has 1lb, 4lb, and 8lb containers of HP-38 in stock. And one of the more well known online "powder" vendors has 8lb jugs of HP-38 in stock. Interesting to hear about them discontinuing this powder at the same time it's quite plentiful.
700x works pretty well in .45 ACP for me, but meters like cornflakes. I'm a huge fan of BE86 right now (mostly because I found a bunch and have it
![[wink]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/002.gif "Wink [wink]")
), meters really well, and is pretty clean in 9mm. I'll load some .45 with it in the fall and see how it goes.finland,swiss,czhec, australia, isreal, french, german just to name a few.....
heres a safety data sheet---- translation to what powders they are ? https://www.hodgdon.com/PDF/MSDS Files/OEM Powders/OEM Powders_090111.pdf
from what I understand ST marks only makes "ball" powder
ATK makes some flake powders here in the states at radford or lake city arsenal. Other than that I dont know any other plant in the US actually manufacturing smokeless powder. Alliant,Hodgdon, IMR , Win, Accurate basically are just putting their labels on or repacking here in the states from bulk loads from other countries ?
have fun.
powder on hand
Accurate 4064- made in Canada
Alliant 2400 - USA
Alliant AR Comp - Sweden
Ramshot TAC Belgium
Win 231- USA
Varget- Australia
Blc2 - USA
Funny thing I noticed is on my bottle of winchester 231 it says "BALL POWDER" is a registered trade mark of GDOTS general dynamics.
so not only does hodgdon have to pay winchester they also have to pay General Dynamics..... No wonder they are dropping it!
Ohh and General Dynamics owns the St Marks plant......see where this is going. It would be so easy for US to simply cut off supply to the "powder" companies.
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700x is a flake powder that doesn't meter nearly as well as 231/hp38. I've used tons of 700x and it is good but nowhere near 231. 700x is a bit dirty too. I have had good experiences with 700x in 9mm, 40s&w, and 38sp. It was too fast to cycle the action on my M&P9.
A caution on 700x too. The small can isn't 1 pound. I think it is 12 ounces. Some of them are only 6 or 8 ounces so you have to be sharp when you're buying them. Some shops price both sizes the same.
EddieZoom
NES Member
That's just dumb...plenty of market demand but we don't like to make it anymore. Idiots...continue to make it and charge us 20% more which most of us would likely pay (I would, perhaps others feel different).
Here we go again...
although it my be a high demand powder through the "powder" companies market place it may not be enough for those contracted to produce the powder. Also look at the money Hodgdon needs to put up to sell a licensed product and copy rights.... might as well discontinue that line and reintroduce a "alternate" powder thats the same.....ahh i mean new and improved and so much better.
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Yup, I think it all comes from St Marks in Florida.
Once you start looking into it you will find we consumers are truly at the mercy of big manufactures.
Heck Winchester doesn't do much but be a name Olin can bank on, well now Dow owns Olin .
Ohhh the fun....
The question is how much does the Winchester Licensing cost US repeating arms or Hodgdon to use?
Now that DOW owns Olin the holder of Winchester trademark and hmm General Dynamics holds trade mark on BALL POWDER......
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Nobody with a brain would pay 20% more for W231. There's nothing special about it. At 20% more you might as well buy VV N320 or similar and be using truly high brow smokeless powder. (nothing is cleaner than VV, or meters like it does). I only used 231 for .45 ACP, that was the only thing that it didn't completely suck at for the loads I was trying to make. Then again I'm not a fluff loader.... so I have a different perspective than most of the folks who take great pleasure cranking out mouse farts.
-Mike
local shop had VV powders and they where only a few dollars more than the other powders..... N150 was 33$ vs 31$ for varget/H4895
In the big picture the powder manufactures not the "powder" companies dictate what we will see on the shelf.
Also with only 5 "Winchester" branded powders offered by hodgdon 3 pistol and 2 rifle I think its a start of Hodgdon dumping winchester completely ?
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My "swiss-army" powder has always been Power Pistol. Anytime you can use one powder to load .32 ACP, .357 Mag, .45 ACP and S&W 500, you're on to something.
Nice! Ya it seems like PP is a pretty versatile powder. I've had great luck with using it for 7.62x25 tokarev, 9mm, 357 mag, and 44 mag. Though I use slower burning powders for magnum loads but if I want a mild/moderate mag load, PP works great.
I've only tried Bayou 147 gr bullets with N320 and they shot well. But it seems like you could use TG, WSF, Clays Universal, HS-6, Autocomp, CFE Pistol according to the Hodgdon website. I'm sure you probably already looked there but just thought I'd mention it anyway.
I would be looking for a fast burning powder with performance like HP-38 or N320 but cheaper than N320. I know TG and some of the others you mentioned have similar characteristics and have formulas listed on the site and in the Hodgdon book I have but I was more interested in allegorical and first hand suggestions of what works best to make minor PF with the 147 gr bullet.
tx
To be honest with you, it's a pistol. The way I choose a pistol powder is to take any powder with data for the caliber, load a few rounds at max minus 10%, make sure they cycle the gun without pressure signs, and shoot reasonably close to point-of-aim That's it. No "working up" or pet loads with pistols because I don't shoot bullseye, and seldom shoot to even 50 yards.
The way I figure it is that if my ammo is really bad and shoots to, say, 4 MOA, then that's 2" at 50 yards. If I shoot 2" groups at 50 yards with a pistol, I'm likely to sprain something from dancing a jig.
Rifles are a completely different story.
ETA: I can make good pistol ammo for ANY caliber with three powders: Bullseye, Power Pistol, and H110.
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Hmmm... We shoot the 9mm out of my 8" SBR out to 200 yards so accuracy is a concern for me. That isn't the only thing I use them for but my 9mm rounds cover a lot of ground between action pistol and use in the SBR's from 30-200 yards.
Even still, as long as you load near max, about 90% of accuracy is choosing a good bullet.
What size groups are you getting at 200 yards with a 9mm?
EddieZoom
NES Member
Insults from the moderator...what's the world coming to ;-)
What is *special* about Win231 is that I know it and like it...and that has value to me.
A few more dollars per/lb is not going to cause me to miss any meals.
Again, others may feel differently...and that's perfectly fine.
Less choice is always bad...continue to sell it for more $$$ and let the market decide.
