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Why no long action AR upper assemblies available
- Thread starter Baystatesuks
- Start date
![[rolleyes]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/042.gif "Roll Eyes [rolleyes]")
First off the .308 Winchester isn't a NATO cartridge. It's a SAAMI commercial cartridge brought out by Winchester. Secondly the 7.62MM NATO round was wholly developed in the US. It was known as the T65. It was adopted by NATO member countries because the US put its foot down.
What exactly do incorrect historical non sequiturs have to do with anything?
B
What exactly do incorrect historical non sequiturs have to do with anything?
B
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Actually I bet the Russian 7.62x54 cartridge is probably the round that has killed more Germans during wartime than any other cartridge.
The fighting on the Russian Front during WW2 was brutal and the amount of casualties on both sides was higher than what was seen in the European theatre in the German/British/US fighting.
The .308/7.62x51 cartridge was developed in the US - and basically because the US still held all the cards in the 50's (European countries were still recovering from the war) - they were able to force thru the cartridge as the NATO standard.
history of the 7.62x51 cartridge:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/7.62x51mm_NATO
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This is what happens when you play around with computers all day and have no real world experience with what you are talking about.
I know this may be a stupid question....but can someone please explain to me the AR uppers or point me in the right direction? I'm new to rifles and right now have a Sig 556.
What do you need to know?
Simply put: The AR rifle can be divided into two major parts.
The "lower" which is made up of an aluminum body that has the magwell and the trigger group and the buttstock attaches to the back of it. Contained within the buttstock is the buffer and spring which handle the recoil of the bolt. The lower is the serial numbered part on an AR and for the purposes of registration is what the ATF and other agencies consider to be the part that gets kept track of.
Here is a completely assembled lower:
When you hear people say "bare lower" you would be getting one of these:
And would have to install your own trigger, buffer, buttstock, pistol grip, and other assorted parts.
The "upper" is the part that contains the barrel, foregrip, bolt, charging handle, etc. It attaches to the lower with a couple of pins. There is a huge variety of uppers available for AR rifles which means with one lower you can actually shoot a number of different calibers or configurations from the same registered "rifle" simply by changing out the upper.
Picture of an AR setup with a .22 upper highlighted in black:
Knob Creek
NES Member
If you are determined to have a long action AR for 30-06 I'm afraid there is no hope for you. Consider either a .308 or the new .30 Remington AR which is reported to give .308 performance in a AR-15 size.
30 Remington AR (left) and .30-06:
30 Remington AR (left) and .30-06:
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Looks close to 7.62 soviet to me. I bet that is a great round to hunt with from the ar. I bet it is also accurate and could be loaded with 240 smk's for subsonic ammo. Anyone know what the case capacity is? I guess on the other hand you could just go 6.5.
Can you get a 30-06 upper for a Sig 556?
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125 grain pill would lead to a low sectional density I think. I bet you could get a 150 to 2400 and that would be a good deer round. Still who wants to hunt with a ar? Ammo availability hopefully will not go the way of the 458,50 and 6.8.
J
Jose
Look up: 'Hunting with an AR' on a Bing search and see what pops up - PLENTY of people like to hunt with them. I for one am finally psyched about something Bushmaster is involved in - I hope they don't screw it up. I would LOVE an AR in .338 Win mag. I could give a crap about ammo cost. That's what brass, bullets, primers and reloading benches are for....
![[cheers]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/018.gif "Cheers [cheers]")
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My thoughts about ammo cost were relating to Rigby and anything ouch & ouch. If people will buy it I guess it will be built
SemiAutoSam
Banned
Here is a page from a hunting magazine where Colt targeted hunters, the price listed in the ad should tell how old this is.
Look up: 'Hunting with an AR' on a Bing search and see what pops up - PLENTY of people like to hunt with them. I for one am finally psyched about something Bushmaster is involved in - I hope they don't screw it up. I would LOVE an AR in .338 Win mag. I could give a crap about ammo cost. That's what brass, bullets, primers and reloading benches are for....
$189.50! I'll take 10 please.
So are there any options for the Sig 556 upper, or is it stricly limited to the way it comes? I'm guessing the piston action is more limited?
The only options that I can think of that would exist for a Sig 556 would be to buy an upper in one of the standard configs that Sig sells - from Sig.
I have never seen anybody making uppers for the Sig556 - and I have never seen anybody selling the uppers from Sig as separate items.
There is a massive industry supporting the AR platform - that is why you see so much diversity in what you can buy to build an AR. The 556 is Sig proprietary design - there may be patent infringement or other legal issues if somebody was to build uppers that would fit on a Sig lower. Plus the 556 is nowhere near as popular as the AR platform is - so there would always be issues of profitability for any company that did get involved in it.
I have read rumours on the internet that Sig itself is having doubts about the 556 because they are not selling as many as they wanted.
I like it, but I'm guessing they are having issues competing on price? This is a $1500 gun, I saw for $1000 new and couldn't pass on. The piston design is nice and clean (from my limited experience). Is the reason for doubts on the 556 just sales, or is there problems with the design?
The first order problem isn't even the upper. It's the lower. The magwell is designed to accept STANAG mags which means rounds that are basically the same length as 5.56x45. So, 7.62x65, 6.5 Grendel, etc are possible. The second order problem is that Sig would have to make an upper.
Go look at one, or an AR15 and the problem should be obvious.
My guess is this statement was made decades ago when people said "Who wants to hunt with a bolt action? We have lever guns and bolt actions are military weapons." And look where we are today. A majority of people hunt with a bolt action gun.
In my view, any additional options (caliber or otherwise) that increase the appeal of the AR platform should statistically increase overall AR sales, which will hopefully (and I really mean hopefully) reduce the stigma associated with the AR platform. Recall that no one was looking to ban bolt action guns back in 1994. It would be nice if public opinion of the AR platform transitioned more towards that of the bolt guns.
Even the AR-10 Platform, which offers an significant increase in the available calibers, is too short for the 30-06 round. It's really too bad Bushmaster discontinued the COBB MCR 30.06. Basically a long-action version of the AR-10, this openned the doors to a while range of cartriage options.
As for hunting with an AR platform? I have a couple of 5rd magazines for my LR-308 for exactly that purpose. (NH restricts semi-automatic hunting rifles to 5rd capacity). What's not to like about it for hunting? Light Weight, easy handling, natural shooting, iron or optics. Just as effective a platform as any other rifle you might use.
As for hunting with an AR platform? I have a couple of 5rd magazines for my LR-308 for exactly that purpose. (NH restricts semi-automatic hunting rifles to 5rd capacity). What's not to like about it for hunting? Light Weight, easy handling, natural shooting, iron or optics. Just as effective a platform as any other rifle you might use.
Bushmaster is supposedly releasing the Cobb rifles in second half of 2010. Here is the e-mail I sent and the response received:
-----Original Message-----
Posted At: Friday, December 18, 2009 9:43 AM
Posted To: Customer Service Email
Conversation: Cobb MCR300 Availability?
Subject: Cobb MCR300 Availability?
Dear Sir or Madam,
I wanted to inquire whether or not any of the Cobb MCR rifles are
available for purchase? In particular, I am interested in a MCR300 in
30-06.
Thanks.
----------------------------------------
We are looking at the first half of 2010.
HAPPY HOLIDAYS !!!
Thank You....
Customer Service / Sales
Bushmaster Firearms International, LLC
Office: 1-800-883-6229 ext.286
Fax: 207-892-8068
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PH's say this all the time while toting double guns around. The bolt action is simply not reliable enough for them. If you want to carry a long action 308 around in a AR go for it. I think there are better tools for the job. You want to change public perception of the assault weapon, I also think there are better ways to do that then hunting with it.
