Why is the .40 caliber losing popularity?

[paul73]

I tried out one of those 9mm Beretta's with the rotary-lock slide. Whatever it was called.

one gun i do indeed like very much better than my current G34 is an STI Staccato. That thing feels very nice and shoots very nice.
I know it is a very different animal, but, it is nice. An incredibly smooth feel, if you did not try it yet - try it.
still, i am sticking to what i have.

 

[drgrant]

Can a .40 be snappy?? Yes. Have I ever shirked from a Glock in .40 because of it???? Uhhhh, no. Guns go bang. If you want less bang, get a .22. I can't believe people are complaining about .40 recoil. Sheesh.

I recall years ago I tried out one of those 9mm Beretta's with the rotary-lock slide. Whatever it was called. I brought my G19 with me to the range. Whatever the Gunblubber range was (what's that guy's weird name) on 18/28 in Bridgewater. Anyhow, the Baratta rep was there. So I grabbed the gun. "Significant reduction in recoil due to rotary lock slide."

I shot about a box of ammo thru it and my G19. NO DIFFERENCE in recoil. Like, none. Zero. Nada.

Short of putting 357's in a superlite J frame or getting your jollies from a 454 Casull, I think recoil is overrated as a concern.

You can't defeat physics but you can change the way the energy is transmitted. Part of the problem with some .40s is the way that energy is transmitted is very
rapid. If you dump the energy back to the shooter in a short period of time, it can increase the perception of felt recoil. Weight of the gun plays a role,
too. Shooting hot (like 165gr, stoked stuff) .40 out of a P229 or a USP .40 is a completely different experience from launching the same from a G23. Something like the Kahr MK or PM40 on
the other hand puts you squarely into the "getting horrendous" zone, pretty fast. Firing .40s out of guns ill suited to deal with it doesn't help with recoil.

Mechanism of action matters, too. Usually direct blowback is the worst. This is why a Walther PPK .380 feels like it has worse recoil than most other
handguns because the recoil is being delivered all at once in a short period of time. You take a Glock 42, on the other hand and that energy is being spread out over
time, resulting in a handgun that is perceived to have much softer recoil, despite weighing a lot less.

 

[moojpg2]

I am someone that will confess to liking .40. I don't shoot it as much as 9mm normally, but I still keep and enjoy my .40 handguns and carry them plenty often, and I have a .357 sig barrel for some of them which is a nice option to have, especially with ammo issues these days. I could care less about .40sw being a little snappy in some guns I can shoot it within a couple hundredths of a second to my splits with 9mm, I don't think any bad guy is gonna notice or care. I don't think it's really dropped in popularity so much as people aren't seeking .40's over 9mm anymore, but there are millions of .40 guns out there so it's always gonna be around. In a state like this shit hole, where we are stuck with 10rd mags a larger caliber like 40sw or .45acp makes more sense because mag capacity is a moot point a lot of the time. I know "pre bans" but even carrying a pre ban your likely to get jammed up until you can prove they are legal mags, and the burden will be on you to prove it with the way the courts are in this state. From .380, 9mm, .40sw, to .45acp and 10mm I'm pretty indifferent I guess, I'm fine with all five, I don't feel under gunned with good modern .380 ammo, but I also know that .45acp and 10mm aren't some kind of small artillery on my hip, I have stuff in all the calibers, and sufficient ammo for each, and I just carry what I'm in the mood to carry based on what I'm wearing or where I'm gonna be going. Only time I'll carry one caliber or over the others is when I'm going to be in the woods, then I'm much more likely to be grabbing a 10mm or .45acp, or a revolver in .357 or .44 or something, but other than that I could care less, if I'm going to be going somewhere I think there is a higher chance of actually needing to use the pistol I'm carrying, I'll just carry an extra mag, maybe two if it's single stack, instead of the one spare I usually carry. I think most people that can actually shoot and are actually well practiced and train regularly with a handgun feel the same way. If I could only afford one caliber it would be different, I would pick one and stick with it, but I have a pretty good stable of handguns to choose from so the hardest decision for me is deciding which gun matches my outfit lol, so I guess I'll chalk that up to 1st world problems.

 

[Mountain]

You can't defeat physics but you can change the way the energy is transmitted. Part of the problem with some .40s is the way that energy is transmitted is very
rapid. If you dump the energy back to the shooter in a short period of time, it can increase the perception of felt recoil. Weight of the gun plays a role,
too. Shooting hot (like 165gr, stoked stuff) .40 out of a P229 or a USP .40 is a completely different experience from launching the same from a G23. Something like the Kahr MK or PM40 on
the other hand puts you squarely into the "getting horrendous" zone, pretty fast. Firing .40s out of guns ill suited to deal with it doesn't help with recoil.

Mechanism of action matters, too. Usually direct blowback is the worst. This is why a Walther PPK .380 feels like it has worse recoil than most other
handguns because the recoil is being delivered all at once in a short period of time. You take a Glock 42, on the other hand and that energy is being spread out over
time, resulting in a handgun that is perceived to have much softer recoil, despite weighing a lot less.

I had a USP 40 so long ago I have forgotten the comparative recoil vs. the G23 I have now. Actually it's a G23C (factory compensated) which tames the muzzle flip. Based on foggy memory, seems that the USP was no worse than the G23 with like for like ammo.

How would you compare the two? My recollection may be totally off...

A simple hack I tried that I would recommend to others who want a G34: The G35 is basically the same thing as the G34 but for .40. It's much less popular and typically cheaper used whether you want the whole gun or simply to source a slide for an existing frame. I had a G34 but ended up selling it to fund other projects and later came across a cheap G35. Pick your poison for conversion barrels (I like Storm Lake or KKM) and now you have a 'bull barrel' G34. The quality barrel and extra heft help with smoother shooting and improved accuracy. Added bonus would be no worries for shooting cast with the standard barrel rifling and you get better case support as well.

 

[DeadEyeDan]

Can a .40 be snappy?? Yes. Have I ever shirked from a Glock in .40 because of it???? Uhhhh, no. Guns go bang. If you want less bang, get a .22. I can't believe people are complaining about .40 recoil. Sheesh.

I recall years ago I tried out one of those 9mm Beretta's with the rotary-lock slide. Whatever it was called. I brought my G19 with me to the range. Whatever the Gunblubber range was (what's that guy's weird name) on 18/28 in Bridgewater. Anyhow, the Baratta rep was there. So I grabbed the gun. "Significant reduction in recoil due to rotary lock slide."

I shot about a box of ammo thru it and my G19. NO DIFFERENCE in recoil. Like, none. Zero. Nada.

Short of putting 357's in a superlite J frame or getting your jollies from a 454 Casull, I think recoil is overrated as a concern.

I’ll add that the 329 S&W is also on the snappy side...

 

[Dennis in MA]

LOL

I've got one of those ultra-ultra-lite 357's that S&W made. I've fired exactly ONE 357 out of it. Load one. Fire one. Never load another one. (38's are fine.)

 

[moojpg2]

I’ll add that the 329 S&W is also on the snappy side...

Shot one once with some Underwood 300gr JHP's, with the wood grips that have an open backstrap, felt like my palm got hit with a baseball bat lol

 

[enbloc]

9mm and 45 owners:


View: https://i.imgur.com/FMpmgCl.gif

Starring @SKumar as the Hero...

And remember kids... keep your dink off the trigger.

 

[Realtor MA]

I honestly don't shoot that often but when I do it's .40. And once again being honest it's usually softish reloads in the 135 PF range. Usually a g35 or sometimes STI edge. Factory loads in the g23 aren't all that much fun and not something I would do on a regular basis.

 

[enbloc]

If you dump the energy back to the shooter in a short period of time, it can increase the perception of felt recoil. Weight of the gun plays a role,
too.

Sounds likw wrist weights are an option for 9mm shooters who want to upgrade to a man's caliber...

 

[enbloc]

LOL

I've got one of those ultra-ultra-lite 357's that S&W made. I've fired exactly ONE 357 out of it. Load one. Fire one. Never load another one. (38's are fine.)

Scandium... Try a 6-hour combat carry course with it. 500 rounds. 200 in your carry ammo. (full-house Remington 158gn SJHP). Lol. Way back when ammo flowed like water.

Anyhoo, it left my shooting hand bleeding... and I mean bleeding. Huge torn open flap on the web between thumb and trigger finger.
~Enbloc

PS... Only guy in the course with a revolver. A five-shot revolver with speed loaders scattered about my feet.

 

[drgrant]

Scandium... Try a 6-hour combat carry course with it. 500 rounds. 200 in your carry ammo. (full-house Remington 158gn SJHP). Lol. Way back when ammo flowed like water.

Anyhoo, it left my shooting hand bleeding... and I mean bleeding. Huge torn open flap on the web between thumb and trigger finger.
~Enbloc

PS... Only guy in the course with a revolver. A five-shot revolver with speed loaders scattered about my feet.

View attachment 417267

Dude if you had a 340PD that lasted that long without blowing up you should put it in a museum or something because you own a unicorn...

 

[enbloc]

Dude if you had a 340PD that lasted that long without blowing up you should put it in a museum or something because you own a unicorn...

It did very well. Only problems I had were related to the ejector-rod.
3 times over 6 hours it backed out enough to hang up the crane swing and literally lock itself in.

Trainer shut down the line and we took a look at it. Then he had me show him it was full of empty cases and had me go back to a bench while others kept training.

I devised a trick that day that I used 2 more times that day for dealing with a locked-up ejector-rod, without the trainer even knowing about or stopping the line...

Thoroughly inspected the frame and shielding around the forcing cone area and except for heavy carbon build up all was well.

I surmise, that the carbon build up actually protected the frame from flame cutting. I figure most folks shoot a couple of full-house .357's, wince and then go home and clean it.
Removing any protective carbon, it is again laid naked on the Alter of Fuego.

I now leave that tiny little area... Dirty. [/QUOTE]

 

[DeadEyeDan]

Scandium... Try a 6-hour combat carry course with it. 500 rounds. 200 in your carry ammo. (full-house Remington 158gn SJHP). Lol. Way back when ammo flowed like water.

Anyhoo, it left my shooting hand bleeding... and I mean bleeding. Huge torn open flap on the web between thumb and trigger finger.
~Enbloc

PS... Only guy in the course with a revolver. A five-shot revolver with speed loaders scattered about my feet.

View attachment 417267

I have that too... then got a 640 to practice with... you are at a minimum twice the man I am!

 

[Broc]

View attachment 417199

Thank you. That just inspired a Lugar meme.

 

[teamRR]

With a 220 in .45, a 229 in .40, and a 226 in 9mm, I feel like I can do an OK comparison, at least in old school Sig world.

The 9mm and .40 I honestly don't notice, at least not with target ammo.

In .45 its a totally different animal, not punishing but I can see the recoil outweighing anything that the caliber gains you. It has this nudge to it.

Don't have a 10mm Sig for comparison but I feel my Glock 20, again with target ammo anyway, isn't in the .45 ballpark. Maybe a touch more snap to it than the 9mm or .40, but doesn't seem to throw me way off.

On that note it sure would be nice if Sig gave us a 229 in a similarly stacked 10mm .

 

[allen-1]

I've got a S&W Airweight up north as a spare camper gun. It's fine for what it is, but it's not a lot of fun to shoot.

 

[Rob Boudrie]

I have a few SVI fotays and they are nice to shoot - extended wide dust cover and tungsten guide rod. Heavy, smooth, manageable, but not a carry gun.

 

[enbloc]

I have that too... then got a 640 to practice with... you are at a minimum twice the man I am!

Not so. But, I do refuse to embarrass myself in front of others... It hurt.
I plunged my hand into a bucket of ice water (well; more ice than water) for almost as long as I shot that day...

What really surprised me about myself was being able to keep up with the mag-fed semi-autos. Mostly Sigs and Glocks if I recall. All 9mm.
The Instructor put me at the end of the firing line. Dead last. Because he thought "Great. There's always One... A wheelgunner..."
He wanted to see how we did at 10-feet with form and accuracy and to evaluate each student. He stood behind and to the left of every participant.
The first volley on the firing line went sort of like this: "Pop...pop...pop...pop...pop...click...pop...pop...BANG!" I was the BANG!

Everyone turned and looked at me with my little snubbie .357... Guy to my left moved over a foot or two... away from me.

Best class I ever took...
~Enbloc

 

[Knob Creek]

French Fisherman’s wives are still protecting them with the .40.

 

[Toast]

Watching parts of the hearing today, I was surprised to see that the soy boy who had his arm blasted by Kyle Rittenhouse was carrying a .40.

 

[DeadEyeDan]

Watching parts of the hearing today, I was surprised to see that the soy boy who had his arm blasted by Kyle Rittenhouse was carrying a .40.

You ment not surprised right? Glock 27?

 

[hminsky]

A simple problem with .40 is that it's too easy to mix it up with 9mm.
Who needs two calibers so close in size that you might load the wrong one? .380 is bad enough...

 

[teamRR]

A simple problem with .40 is that it's too easy to mix it up with 9mm.
Who needs two calibers so close in size that you might load the wrong one? .380 is bad enough...

Might look close in the picture but in reality hard to mistake, not to mention .40 isn't fitting into a 9mm. The other way around you may be distracted enough to pull it off but I don't think it's like the 300 blk in 5.56 kaboom trick, I think you would just potentially eject a gnarly 9mm case, make a bad shot, possibly not quite get the power to fully cycle etc. I bet someone here has done it and can speak from experience.

 

[SDG]

Can a .40 be snappy?? Yes. Have I ever shirked from a Glock in .40 because of it???? Uhhhh, no. Guns go bang. If you want less bang, get a .22. I can't believe people are complaining about .40 recoil. Sheesh.

I recall years ago I tried out one of those 9mm Beretta's with the rotary-lock slide. Whatever it was called. I brought my G19 with me to the range. Whatever the Gunblubber range was (what's that guy's weird name) on 18/28 in Bridgewater. Anyhow, the Baratta rep was there. So I grabbed the gun. "Significant reduction in recoil due to rotary lock slide."

I shot about a box of ammo thru it and my G19. NO DIFFERENCE in recoil. Like, none. Zero. Nada.

Short of putting 357's in a superlite J frame or getting your jollies from a 454 Casull, I think recoil is overrated as a concern.

This it exactly right. My normal carry is a subcompact polymer 40. For the average person without wrist problems recoil management issues should be something very easily over come.

 

[Mesatchornug]

Might look close in the picture but in reality hard to mistake, not to mention .40 isn't fitting into a 9mm. The other way around you may be distracted enough to pull it off but I don't think it's like the 300 blk in 5.56 kaboom trick, I think you would just potentially eject a gnarly 9mm case, make a bad shot, possibly not quite get the power to fully cycle etc. I bet someone here has done it and can speak from experience.

This author described having almost exactly that experience:

The plastic gun

This story was published yesterday in TheTruthAboutGuns.com. In the story, I mistakenly referred to Glocks as having a hammer. I know Glocks are striker fired, but I’m leaving the story as-is…

chrishernandezauthor.com

 

[enbloc]

If your carry gun is of a newer than 1998 design, (and you are a Mass Resident) there are no lawful pre-bans to stuff in it. (the S&W M&P Shield Series comes to mind)

So why not carry .40, over choosing 9mm?

The guns are basically identical except for the caliber...

9mm on left... .40 S&W on the right"



Lol. It would also appear that the .40 on the right has one in the pipe... and is a Cali Series.

HK VP9 and VP40 both require 10-rd mags to be Mass Compliant...

 

[oldguy68]

Arguing 40 S&W to someone that thinks 9mm is gods round is like talking to the guy who can't reassemble his Ruger MKI,II or III pistol.
There are somethings only manly men can handle or figure out!

Kind of like taking to a "car" guy that doesn't even know jack about the car he drives.

 

[drgrant]

Arguing 40 S&W to someone that thinks 9mm is gods round is like talking to the guy who can't reassemble his Ruger MKI,II or III pistol.
There are somethings only manly men can handle or figure out!

Kind of like taking to a "car" guy that doesn't even know jack about the car he drives.

Except that many of us who think .40 is dumb, have owned them. Sometimes, lots of them. At one time i even had predominantly .40 S&W handguns in my safe. Two Sig P229s, both .40. A USP .40. A USP .40 compact. A P2000, and a Glock 22 Gen4. I carried the USPc .40 and p2k for a few years, even.

Generally speaking.40 is f***ing stupid, if someone is hinging on a choice.... and there actually is a choice, for the application. Right now? Right now I wouldn't fault someone for buying one because of the gun/ammo situation, but under normal circumstances? Meh. Hell i had a chance to get a barely used M&P .40 for like $250 and turned it down.... because i need another albatross gun that i won't shoot.... like i need a hole in the head.....

 

[teamRR]

The point is valid - in a ban state, if the choices are a 10 round 9mm or 10 round .40, myself I will take the .40...

But then of course 10mm, where you have pistols that take it like a Glock 29, provides .40 capacity with stopping power exceeding all of the auto calibers.