Where do you carry?

TonyD

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Just another one of my "food for thought" items.

This topic has come up from time to time over the years so I just thought I'd put some ideas down on paper, so to speak. I've had the opportunity to come across some very single minded and stubborn folks in the shooting community ranging from the inexperienced to the ex-purts. Now, I know you can "what if" something to death and there will always be disadvantages to every tactic or technique.

The vast majority of folks that carry concealed for self defense (we are not discussing LEO here) carry on the hip, strong side, with extra mag's (if they carry them at all) on their weak side. When I inquire if that's the way they always carry they usually respond in the affirmative, and when I ask why it's usually, "cause that's the way it's done".

Most of us know, or at least realize, that in a no-shit situation Mr. Murphy tags along for a ride and nothing happens like a range session. You can expect certain things to happen, including but not limited to; going deaf, running your gun dry, fumbling and dropping at least one magazine into the only mud puddle within 3 square miles, having at least one malfunction you'll have to clear, getting injured in some manner, and finding that your target at seven yards is as hard to hit as a thumb tack at fifty meters! Just count on it and it won't be a surprise. This is where the mental preparation comes into play.

So, knowing what to expect, our mindset begins as soon as we go to strap that bad-boy on our side. Now, one problem that continues to pound this preconcieved notion into our brain-housing group is, no class, course, or competition (that I'm aware of) allows any other type carry position, and most ranges don't allow you to even draw-and-shoot from any position.

My opinion is this - the strong side traditional carry position is the least accessible position for the individual to present their weapon unless they are completely unobstructed in wide open spaces and have full use of their strong-side arm. Think about that for a moment then re-read paragraph three above. Now, try to imagine all the possible, and even likely, scenarios in which you may have to resort to deadly force in a self defense situation.

Let's take a look at one very likely and common possiblity, a car jacking. Is the image becoming clearer? How about sitting in a booth having dinner with your family at your favorite diner? Or, standing a$$hole-to-belly button in a confined space such as an elevator? What happens if you take a round in your strong side? I'm sure we've all praticed weak-side shooting (a little) but have you ever tried to draw with your weak-side? Go try it, I'll wait. Ain't gonna' happen, is it?

Now, I'm certainly not going to sit back and try to tell someone where they should, or should not, carry their firearm. My point is just to interject a little reality, from time to time, and help folks understand a bigger picture. Like anything else, there are times when one particular technique is more appropriate than another - and your carry position is no different. Ever go to a crowded public function and put your wallet in your front pocket? You changed its "carry position" dictated by the circumstances.

The Mental-Prep leg of the survival triangle includes planning. Planning requires forethought and an analysis of your agenda.

Just another thought from the "Corner of my opinion only".

Semper Fi!
 
That's a good point. The only time that I've ever moved where I carry is when I was carrying my Walther. And that was with an IWB so when I would get in my car, I would slide it around to a cross draw so I could get to it while sitting in my car.

And if something were to happen, at a cross draw I can still get to it with my weak hand.

But what do you think would be an all around good carry position?

Mexican Style? That would let you get to it from both hands.
 
Currently, when I carry concealed, I use a shoulder rig, putting the gun just under my left arm pit, gun horizontal. I've also got a USGI shoulder set-up for my 1911A1 that's vertical.

I've been looking for something different, though.
 
C-pher said:
That's a good point. The only time that I've ever moved where I carry is when I was carrying my Walther. And that was with an IWB so when I would get in my car, I would slide it around to a cross draw so I could get to it while sitting in my car.

And if something were to happen, at a cross draw I can still get to it with my weak hand.

But what do you think would be an all around good carry position?

Mexican Style? That would let you get to it from both hands.

I'm not sure what "Mexican" style is but I'm glad you see my point.

Again, I'm not trying to say there is a "best" way rather, that circumstances will dictate or may give you a better option. You also have to consider where to put your magazines if you choose an alternate position (assuming you carry extra mag's).
 
I tend to find myself an outsider (as if I give a shiite) with respect to most of the "practical" shooting community and a lot of other experts in that I prefer a good cross draw holster. It gives me easy access from a car or other seated situation, unlike the totally inaccessible locations recommended. It also gives me a good, quick presentation while standing. The fact that I tend to use a tight Weaver stance helps, since the gun is pointed pretty much where I'm going to be shooting as soon as it clears the holster, rather than having to swing through over 180 degrees of arc from behind the strong side hip.

If I know that I'm going to be in unusual circumstances, then I've absolutely no hesitation in change the way I carry. SOB, pocket holster, strong side hip, the only important criterion is that it works. Part of that practicality is dictated by another more fundamentally practical decision. Unless I'm forced to be someplace where it's illegal (something I try my best to avoid) I always carry. I don't make exceptions, since Murphy doesn't either. We were once going to a Christmas party at my wife's boss's home, when she noticed that I had my 1911 under my jacket. Since she only tollerates by affair with guns, she sighed and asked what she thought was a profound question, "Do you really think you're going to need that?" I though for a minute (do I really want to get into this with her now?), then answered, "If I thought I did, we wouldn't be going." While still not liking it, she saw he complete rationality of my position, and has never questioned me about it since. You don't get to pick the circumstanced under which you're going to have to use a gun, unless you're a complete fool, or in the business of doing evil things to even more evil people.

Ken
 
Ken - Agreed! I've carried many, many, many times in a X-draw and if wardrobe permits, it is much more appropriate than traditional. The act of reaching for a firearm in the strong-side is very recognizable even to the unindoctronated.

I have also used what I call the 'reverse X-draw'. By that I mean placing the firearm backwards on your strong side.
 
I always carry X draw (wardrobe permitting) with my main carry gun, but I also usually have a back up somewhere on my bod. :D It seems more comfortable to draw from my left hip than to bring my arm back to remove it from the holster.

When I practice defensive shooting, I always use a weaver stance - I just started doing that because that seemed more natural to me as well.

And Ken, I've used that comment myself "If I thought I needed it, I wouldn't be here." There are a number of our friends who know Ed and I teach, and I've lost count on the number of times I've been asked, "Are you carrying now?" I usually smile and tell them that concealed means concealed and if they can't tell, then I'm not going to tell them.
 
Lynne, do you remember CD Tavares reply to Cheryl Jacques when she asked whether he was carrying at one of the gun bill hearings?

My great grandfather used to carry one of his guns reverse cross draw, which seemed to work just fine. In friendly competition he was able to outdraw his deputy, Virgil Earp, and the deputy's brother, a guy named Wyatt. :eek: :eek: :eek:

The fact that reaching to your strong side hip is so obvious to anybody who knows antything can also work to your advantage. One evening years ago, I was working late in Boston and on my way back to North Station to catch a train home. I noticed a couple of suspicious types crossing the street in my general direction, and instinctively put my hand on my right hip under my coat. For some strange reason, the two immediately changed direction and continued on the far side of the street.

Ken
 
KMaurer said:
Lynne, do you remember CD Tavares reply to Cheryl Jacques when she asked whether he was carrying at one of the gun bill hearings?

I don't remember hearing about that one Ken.
 
TonyD said:
I'm not sure what "Mexican" style is but I'm glad you see my point.

Again, I'm not trying to say there is a "best" way rather, that circumstances will dictate or may give you a better option. You also have to consider where to put your magazines if you choose an alternate position (assuming you carry extra mag's).



Carrying in the small of your back.

I wonder if this would be a good place because at least of someone was holding you up at gunpoint. It would almost look like you were just reaching back for your wallet.
 
Lynne said:
KMaurer said:
Lynne, do you remember CD Tavares reply to Cheryl Jacques when she asked whether he was carrying at one of the gun bill hearings?

I don't remember hearing about that one Ken.

CD was talking about one of the bills under considertion, and Jacques (during the couple of minutes she was actually there) tried get some press by pretending to be worried about people carrying legally in the hearing room. [They didn't used to bother with metal detectors or even signs back then.] In a nervous voice she asked if CD was carrying at the time. He smiled at her and replied that he'd been taught never to ask a woman her age or a man if he were carrying. In an effort to recover by playing the PC card, Jacques asked him if he ever asked a woman if she were carrying. Again, Chris managed to cut her legs out from under her, replying "only if I'm really interested, senator." Most of the chamber chuckled [either with CD or at Jacques], while Jacques looked as if she'd just sat on a whoopie cushion. A couple of minutes later she stomped out of the hearings.

Ken
 
C-pher said:
TonyD said:
I'm not sure what "Mexican" style is but I'm glad you see my point.

Again, I'm not trying to say there is a "best" way rather, that circumstances will dictate or may give you a better option. You also have to consider where to put your magazines if you choose an alternate position (assuming you carry extra mag's).



Carrying in the small of your back.

I wonder if this would be a good place because at least of someone was holding you up at gunpoint. It would almost look like you were just reaching back for your wallet.

Not a chance in Hell. If I'm being held at gunpoint I'm simply going to give him my wallet.
 
TonyD said:
Not a chance in Hell. If I'm being held at gunpoint I'm simply going to give him my wallet.

As they turn to run away yell "Wait I found some more cash!" When they turn around.... POP! POP! POP!

But that's just me.
 
I just took a look at everything you said...

Now I've known since I purchased the holster I can draw it sitting down, that has never been a problem because I thought about that before getting it, mainly in case I need it in a hurry while in a vehicle.

As for, removing it if my strong arm is out of the game I also just tried that (after unloading it of course) and with a little more practice I could do it proficently sitting down or standing up. I can do it now, it just takes a minute, and that's about 55 seconds longer than I wish it too be...... [shock]

On other thing I read on another forum not too long ago is how many people think about what it is they do while carrying that may hinder them if the crap starts rolling. Like walking around while carrying something in your strong hand, or with your hands in your pockets...ETC...

One of the things I didn't realize I did until after I thought about it is, when I'm out with my son or Wife I used to walk with them on my right side, while holding my sons hand. With my right hand, not exactly a smart thing since I'm right handed and that is which side my gun is also on. I assume it is because I'm right handed that I just naturally did it that way, but I have since changed and now both my wife and son stay too my left too keep my right free of anything that may get in the way.
 
Ken, thanks for the refresher. I think I recall that back and forth now.

Precious!

But CD always had a way with words. [twisted]
 
The entire point in my "My Opinion Only" post is to get folks thinking about something they may not have considered before. Hopefully it'll help someone out somewhere.

Thanks for your input.
 
I normally carry only in my vehicle since my primary carry gun is usually a P226 or P228 in 9mm - not the most concealable gun esp. in the warmer months. I do have an IWB holster for my P228 which works good with some reasonable clothing.....I normally carry a handgun under my driver seat. that gives me limited options - its something though........curious what people own/carry on them that is compact enough to carry everywhere.....I'm not real crazy about .380 and below for carry guns and I'm thinking about a SW J frame revolver in .38spl as a pocket gun.......any thoughts?
 
J_Smith said:
I normally carry only in my vehicle since my primary carry gun is usually a P226 or P228 in 9mm - not the most concealable gun esp. in the warmer months. I do have an IWB holster for my P228 which works good with some reasonable clothing.....I normally carry a handgun under my driver seat. that gives me limited options - its something though........curious what people own/carry on them that is compact enough to carry everywhere.....I'm not real crazy about .380 and below for carry guns and I'm thinking about a SW J frame revolver in .38spl as a pocket gun.......any thoughts?

My first carry gun was a Rossi 5 shot - I still have it and carry it as back up. I love that little gun. I also had a Walther PPK that I carried as back up, but it had kind of a bite to it when I practiced, so, I traded that for my Smith 9mm (I can't remember what model it is, CRS is hitting again). NOT an easy gun to conceal, however, I usually dress for the occaision. The only draw back to a revolver is you only have 6 shots max (or 5 in my Rossi's case). I don't remember model numbers so bear with me, but I do remember seeing a Smith .40 that was on the small side - it was black with a stainless slide (does that help?) and was much smaller than my 9mm. The good side to revolvers is they don't malfunction like a semi can. Given that you don't clean it with every use, that is.
 
I've found my Glock 19 is easier to conceal / carry that a short revolver simply because of the thinner profile. I still have a Charter .44 Special that I need to get from my folks house but I'm not sure how to have it sent from out of state.
 
TonyD said:
I've found my Glock 19 is easier to conceal / carry that a short revolver simply because of the thinner profile. I still have a Charter .44 Special that I need to get from my folks house but I'm not sure how to have it sent from out of state.

Wouldn't FFL to FFL be all right? Ya gotta understand, we in MA live under Nazi rule, so your laws are probably a lot more gentle than what we put up with. What state are they coming from? You may well be able to just have it sent through FedEx.
 
Lynne said:
TonyD said:
I've found my Glock 19 is easier to conceal / carry that a short revolver simply because of the thinner profile. I still have a Charter .44 Special that I need to get from my folks house but I'm not sure how to have it sent from out of state.

Wouldn't FFL to FFL be all right? Ya gotta understand, we in MA live under Nazi rule, so your laws are probably a lot more gentle than what we put up with. What state are they coming from? You may well be able to just have it sent through FedEx.

From Indiana to Georgia. It's my firearm, there is no registration ownership BS.
 
dvl said:
Nazi rule?

Didn't the Nazis have some sort of coherent plan, abhorrent as it was?

They had a master plan alright. They made the mistake of not realizing they were the minority.
 
dvl said:
The AG being in the minority. I like to think of him as one against many.

Did I get the name wrong?

No, I for some reason thought you were referring to Bill, not Tom. I have no reason why. I will blame it on the Becks, which is really Tony's fault, he got me hooked on them. [wink]

I shouldnt be accoutable for my own actions. [lol]
 
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