Cant shoot my carry pistol well

TrashcanDan

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Hello all, I consider myself a very good shot especially for my experience level. Full size handguns and rifles are easy for me to shoot but I am struggling with my mp 9mm shield. I pretty much always shoot to the left slow or fast shooting. Btw I am left eye dominant and right handed. I have absolutely no problems with full frame handguns. I'm wondering if the shield is just not for me and should try another carry size gun???
OP

It may be that the pistol is not suited to your hand and may need grip modification. My EDC is colt officers in 45 ACP. When I first got it (the year they first came out) I had problems being accurate with it that I did not have with full size 1911 or commander. I was really frustrated as rifle shotguns revolver and other pistols I was shooting well
I finally figured out it was grip. When I drew from holster I was adjusting grip and not getting same grip twice
I added mag well which slightly extended grip and went to extended magazine (standard 1911 mag with butt pad).
Magically my grip on draw became rock solid and consistent shooting followed.

May have nothing to do with your problem. But if you are shooting other pistols well it probably isn't you. Look for something with pistol.
This and this.
Do you suffer from big-hand curse?
"I'm a good shot with a full size, not so much a compact"
Grip grip grip grip grip grip.
Finding something that fits your mitts is the problem solver.
This does not fit well.




1C7FACD5-6E2A-41DF-9E69-2489E14FF140.jpeg
 
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wahsben

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1) I had a flinch with that little gun. {There, I said it and I'm not ashamed.} I was sure I don't flinch, but I mixed 2 snap caps in every 7rnd mag. On the snap caps, guess where the muzzle went. Yup...down and to the left.
Do what cockpitbob suggests here. This really lets you know for sure whether you're flinching or not.
 

fencer

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Dry fire, dry fire and when you are done, try some more dry fire.
Many moons ago, Adam from Acme Armament gave me a great piece of advice. Balance a coin on the end of the barrel, when you can consistently pull the trigger on DA/SA without the coin falling off, you have mastered trigger pull for that firearm. Harder than it sounds and it worked for me.

Then, to perfect your draw, snatch the pebble from my hand grasshopper. Ok, I made the last part up.
 

drgrant

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Hey guys just an update. So I have close to 2,000 rounds through my shield now. I'm pretty sure with such a short sight radius when I pull my trigger my front post is drifting ever so slightly. At 5 yards and lots of concentration I can pull off 3" groups. I also get strained after 200 rounds. I think it's just these little pistols require lots of practice and finesse. I will admit I def flinch with fast firing but not with slow fire. I've been cycling snap caps in.

ITS JUST SO FRUSTRATING PICKING UP A FULLSIZE IVE NEVER SHOT BEFORE AND NAILING IT WHILE MY CARRY PISTOL WITH 2000 ROUNDS THROUGH IS SO DIFFICULT!
Get more 1 on 1 training with someone who is decent at this stuff.

At least get yourself to a point where when you f*** up, youll be about 95% cognizant of why the shot went where it did, it makes life a lot less frustrating.

Also, although improbable that it's the gun, have you fired this gun from a rest? If you can't get it to do a coke can diameter group at 25 feet the gun is probably broken somehow.
 

drgrant

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I hate to admit but during IDPA stages that involve weak hand shooting, I have to add some kentucky windage as I tend to pull shots to the right. So I aim ~6 inches to the left of the down zero[laugh]
Yes I really need to practice weak hand shooting more....
Same here it's like being crippled, it instantly transforms you into what a toddler or someone 105 years old probably feels if they fired a handgun... i try to force myself to practice it when i can despite the frustration....
 

1776

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At what distance are you having problems? For that size gun, I would say that if you can put a couple in an 18" target at 10' your going good.
 

Roland Deschain

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My process for teaching:

1. Anatomy - Build a solid shooting grip, stance, and muscular tension.

2. Trigger- Learn to press it clean slow.... then build up to smashing it clean fast.

3. Vision- See what you need to see for the distance and size of target. No more... no less.

4. Timing - The secret sauce that ties it all together.
 

slap shot

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Trigger sucks if it’s still the 100lb mass one. If you haven’t fixed it yet, try that
 

Knob Creek

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I see quite a few articles recently about “Are our carry guns getting too small?” Over the last 40 years I’ve carried .357 revolvers, 1911’s, Sig P229, P239, M&Ps, Shields, snub revolvers, and now a P365. As we go to smaller and easier to carry and conceal guns I don’t believe we can shoot them as well as we should.
 

fencer

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I see quite a few articles recently about “Are our carry guns getting too small?” Over the last 40 years I’ve carried .357 revolvers, 1911’s, Sig P229, P239, M&Ps, Shields, snub revolvers, and now a P365. As we go to smaller and easier to carry and conceal guns I don’t believe we can shoot them as well as we should.
I like to carry a big gun whenever I can, but the two micro guns I carry when I have to, are surprisingly accurate, which is why I purchased them. The 365, for me, shoots and handles like a larger gun as long as I use the magazines with the pinky extension. Follow up shots are quick and recoil is mild when you consider how lights the pistol is.

My PM9 is laughably accurate. I literally chuckled the first time I fired it because it was so accurate. Recoil is not bad at all compared to a snubby in 357, which is unpleasant.
The biggest draw back is the long trigger pull and that you really have to hold on to that little sucker if you have big hands. But it is in a class by itself as far as pocket pistols go. I just ordered an ankle holster for it so it can serve double duty as a pocket pistol and back up gun.
But, nothing makes me happier than a full sized pistol in a shoulder holster with two spare mags, in a caliber that starts with a 4.
 

djbradles

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I like to carry a big gun whenever I can, but the two micro guns I carry when I have to, are surprisingly accurate, which is why I purchased them. The 365, for me, shoots and handles like a larger gun as long as I use the magazines with the pinky extension. Follow up shots are quick and recoil is mild when you consider how lights the pistol is.

My PM9 is laughably accurate. I literally chuckled the first time I fired it because it was so accurate. Recoil is not bad at all compared to a snubby in 357, which is unpleasant.
The biggest draw back is the long trigger pull and that you really have to hold on to that little sucker if you have big hands. But it is in a class by itself as far as pocket pistols go. I just ordered an ankle holster for it so it can serve double duty as a pocket pistol and back up gun.
But, nothing makes me happier than a full sized pistol in a shoulder holster with two spare mags, in a caliber that starts with a 4.
Ditto on the Kahr. Got a CM9 and its ballz to 20 yards. When rapid fire I miss a few but when the steel rings it puts a smile on my face. I rather like the front sight alignment with just a hair on each side of the rear sight and when I do my part its on target consistently with an 8” plate. That thing is so dirty too. I never clean it. Belly lint and all.
 

Cap

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I like to carry a big gun whenever I can, but the two micro guns I carry when I have to, are surprisingly accurate, which is why I purchased them. The 365, for me, shoots and handles like a larger gun as long as I use the magazines with the pinky extension. Follow up shots are quick and recoil is mild when you consider how lights the pistol is.

My PM9 is laughably accurate. I literally chuckled the first time I fired it because it was so accurate. Recoil is not bad at all compared to a snubby in 357, which is unpleasant.
The biggest draw back is the long trigger pull and that you really have to hold on to that little sucker if you have big hands. But it is in a class by itself as far as pocket pistols go. I just ordered an ankle holster for it so it can serve double duty as a pocket pistol and back up gun.
But, nothing makes me happier than a full sized pistol in a shoulder holster with two spare mags, in a caliber that starts with a 4.
Samezies.

I don't "enjoy" shooting my pm9 and don't love the trigger, but Jesus is it accurate. It defies all logic.
 

Roland Deschain

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I like to carry a big gun whenever I can, but the two micro guns I carry when I have to, are surprisingly accurate, which is why I purchased them. The 365, for me, shoots and handles like a larger gun as long as I use the magazines with the pinky extension. Follow up shots are quick and recoil is mild when you consider how lights the pistol is.

My PM9 is laughably accurate. I literally chuckled the first time I fired it because it was so accurate. Recoil is not bad at all compared to a snubby in 357, which is unpleasant.
The biggest draw back is the long trigger pull and that you really have to hold on to that little sucker if you have big hands. But it is in a class by itself as far as pocket pistols go. I just ordered an ankle holster for it so it can serve double duty as a pocket pistol and back up gun.
But, nothing makes me happier than a full sized pistol in a shoulder holster with two spare mags, in a caliber that starts with a 4.
I Love my G43.... but I had a chance to shoot my Chiefs 365, and Goddamn if that isn't a nice tight Package. Tight like a tiger
 

drgrant

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Samezies.

I don't "enjoy" shooting my pm9 and don't love the trigger, but Jesus is it accurate. It defies all logic.
My theory is it's because of the way the Kahr trigger breaks. It might not be the "fastest" gun to shoot, but because of the rolling break it sort of deters people from slapping the piss out of the trigger and pulling the gun off target, etc. So it can sort of act as a crutch that works against bad habits, etc.

It's just a theory but it always seems like if a trigger has a smooth, loping, rolling break, it's more likely to be a "surprise" which deters flinching, or snatching the trigger to "get it over the hump... "
 

Roland Deschain

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My theory is it's because of the way the Kahr trigger breaks. It might not be the "fastest" gun to shoot, but because of the rolling break it sort of deters people from slapping the piss out of the trigger and pulling the gun off target, etc. So it can sort of act as a crutch that works against bad habits, etc.

It's just a theory but it always seems like if a trigger has a smooth, loping, rolling break, it's more likely to be a "surprise" which deters flinching, or snatching the trigger to "get it over the hump... "
That's actually an interesting theory mike. I've always tried to get people away from that "now" philosophy initially, but as people improve, then they need to be able to smash trigger effectively in order to capture smaller sight picture windows. Dave Harrington calls it 'command detonation'
 

DavidC77

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Hello all, I consider myself a very good shot especially for my experience level. Full size handguns and rifles are easy for me to shoot but I am struggling with my mp 9mm shield. I pretty much always shoot to the left slow or fast shooting. Btw I am left eye dominant and right handed. I have absolutely no problems with full frame handguns. I'm wondering if the shield is just not for me and should try another carry size gun???
I have the same trouble with revolvers like the S&W J Frame size guns... I can shoot a Full Size Revolver with no problems, put a snub nose in my bear paws and I can't shoot it at all....

The Ruger LC9 came out about the same time as the Shield, I bought the Ruger 1st (I don't think the Shield was MA Approved yet)... I couldn't shoot the Ruger at all, I literally couldn't hit targets right in front of me with it...

I bought the Shield and even with the shitty MASS trigger I was 1000 times better with the Shield...

I see that you did the APEX kit, that's step one... I'd also suggest doing the APEX Trigger as well... The APEX Triggers are much better than the S&W Triggers...

I am also a HUGE FAN of the XS Sights Big Dot Sights!!! Especially now that they have listened to us and added the tritium to the rear sight... I found I could shoot much better with the Big Dot over the 3 dot style sights... I can pick up the Big Dot much easier with my old eyes...

I am also a HUGE FAN of Crimson Trace... I can shoot much better with the laser... My eyes are not what they use to be... I have trouble trying to shoot with the sights (one of the reasons I use the XS Sight)... So I find myself shooting with the laser better then shooting with the sights...

Know to THE BIGGIE, you say you are "left eye dominant and right handed"...

Have you tried shooting with the gun in your left hand???

I think you will improve if you start shooting Left Handed... My wife was right eye dominant and left handed... I bought her a left handed bow, yes archery but the same meaning... With the left handed bow she couldn't get good groups... The Archery Shop owner suggested for her to try a right handed bow and to shoot that way... It felt funny to her at 1st, BUT, it didn't take to long for her mind and her right eye, her dominant eye, to pick up on what was going on and she started shooting really good groups... ( I ended up getting a nice Target Bow out of it... ;) )...

So you may want to try the XS Big Bot, the CT Laser the APEX Trigger, but 1st I'd try shooting with your Left Hand and see how you do... Shoot that way for awhile, don't "just try it" and give up, your mind and eye will have to "catch on" that this might be the correct way to be shooting.. As I said it took my wife switching to a right hand bow to start shooting correctly...

So with you being left eye dominant and right handed it might just take you changing to your left hand to start shooting Better Groups...

Let me know how it go's...

.
 

SJan

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It's just a theory but it always seems like if a trigger has a smooth, loping, rolling break, it's more likely to be a "surprise" which deters flinching, or snatching the trigger to "get it over the hump... "
That's actually an interesting theory mike. I've always tried to get people away from that "now" philosophy initially, but as people improve, then they need to be able to smash trigger effectively in order to capture smaller sight picture windows. Dave Harrington calls it 'command detonation'
Do you mean get away from the 'now philosophy' as in the shooter should not be in control of exactly when the gun fires?

I think the whole slow squeeze, let it surprise you thing is detrimental to learning how to shoot at anything other than a competitive bullseye rate of fire.

I get that that is the method often taught to beginners, and it gets them to be able to hit what they are aiming at.

Learning to press the trigger without disturbing the sigts takes practice. 1000's of repititions of doing it correctly. I say start practicing a rapid trigger press immediately.
 

Roland Deschain

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Do you mean get away from the 'now philosophy' as in the shooter should not be in control of exactly when the gun fires?

I think the whole slow squeeze, let it surprise you thing is detrimental to learning how to shoot at anything other than a competitive bullseye rate of fire.

I get that that is the method often taught to beginners, and it gets them to be able to hit what they are aiming at.

Learning to press the trigger without disturbing the sigts takes practice. 1000's of repititions of doing it correctly. I say start practicing a rapid trigger press immediately.
I agree. I don't teach 'surprise' trigger press at all, but I try to get people away from the 'now' philosophy initially only because it's a mental habit that they can't support with their physical skills early on. Anyone that is past beginner status is pushed towards a more aggressive press
 
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I didn't read all this. I'll say this with almost no information given:

If you shoot one gun well, but not another, your fundamentals are off.
 

drgrant

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Do you mean get away from the 'now philosophy' as in the shooter should not be in control of exactly when the gun fires?

I think the whole slow squeeze, let it surprise you thing is detrimental to learning how to shoot at anything other than a competitive bullseye rate of fire.

I get that that is the method often taught to beginners, and it gets them to be able to hit what they are aiming at.

Learning to press the trigger without disturbing the sigts takes practice. 1000's of repititions of doing it correctly. I say start practicing a rapid trigger press immediately.
It's hard to describe, I just think that if you take a kahr or a revolver etc, and get someone working on that, there's almost sort of a buffer going on there that makes it "simpler" for
the person to properly moderate their trigger press, I'm not talking about some guy sitting there staging it, just sights, clean pull-bang, repeat. It sounds retarded but you guys have probably seen this effect before with new shooters. The triggers dont break the same way, even vs something like, a glock trigger, because theres a "lump/bump" before the gun fires as opposed to a wall. And on triggers with a wall, like a Glock, 1911 (to a lesser extent because usually lighter) etc, you want to punch through the wall at speed without punching too hard.... [laugh]

-Mike
 

ReluctantDecoy

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It's hard to describe, I just think that if you take a kahr or a revolver etc, and get someone working on that, there's almost sort of a buffer going on there that makes it "simpler" for
the person to properly moderate their trigger press, I'm not talking about some guy sitting there staging it, just sights, clean pull-bang, repeat. It sounds retarded but you guys have probably seen this effect before with new shooters. The triggers dont break the same way, even vs something like, a glock trigger, because theres a "lump/bump" before the gun fires as opposed to a wall. And on triggers with a wall, like a Glock, 1911 (to a lesser extent because usually lighter) etc, you want to punch through the wall at speed without punching too hard.... [laugh]

-Mike
For me with a Kahr, it was hard to predict the "bang", so I was less inclined to include flinch or recoil correction into my shots, resulting in more accurate shots before I got a little more experience.
 

Cap

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If I can take this thread on a short derail: For you pm9 guys - are you using the 6rd flush or the 7rd extended mag? My pinky doesn't fit on the flush and the 7 round still feels uncomfortable.

I just ordered the pearce extensions, hoping those make it more comfortable. The galloway +1s are also intriguing.
 

ReluctantDecoy

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If I can take this thread on a short derail: For you pm9 guys - are you using the 6rd flush or the 7rd extended mag? My pinky doesn't fit on the flush and the 7 round still feels uncomfortable.

I just ordered the pearce extensions, hoping those make it more comfortable. The galloway +1s are also intriguing.
Can I ask what feels uncomfortable on the 7rd extended mag? It doesn't look all that great, but appears to keep a straight line from the front strap of the grip to where your pinky would rest. But then with the extended mag, I'd question why one didn't go P9 instead. 7 rounds flush, same size as a Shield, but with more front strap space due to higher trigger guard. I suppose if one was stuffing it into a pocket the PM9 makes more sense, but then not the extended mag.
 

Cap

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Can I ask what feels uncomfortable on the 7rd extended mag? It doesn't look all that great, but appears to keep a straight line from the front strap of the grip to where your pinky would rest. But then with the extended mag, I'd question why one didn't go P9 instead. 7 rounds flush, same size as a Shield, but with more front strap space due to higher trigger guard. I suppose if one was stuffing it into a pocket the PM9 makes more sense, but then not the extended mag.
I primarily pocket carry the pm9, so the 7 rounder is only for the range. I think it's the gap between the mag and the frame pinching or something.

Put the Pearce extension on today and it feels more comfortable (haven't shot it yet), but it also somewhat defeats the purpose of the flush mag.
 

ReluctantDecoy

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I primarily pocket carry the pm9, so the 7 rounder is only for the range. I think it's the gap between the mag and the frame pinching or something.

Put the Pearce extension on today and it feels more comfortable (haven't shot it yet), but it also somewhat defeats the purpose of the flush mag.
Gotcha! That makes sense now after looking at the picture of one inserted. There's definitely a 2-3mm gap that looks like it could be a pinch point. I was never a fan of Kahr mag baseplate implementation, to the point that I tried making my own. Only made one, but since I don't shoot this gun hardly ever, I stopped messing around with it.

20171224_194711.jpg
 

BrianWilson

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I'm liking doing 25 or so reps of carefully breaking the trigger so as to not disturb the sights (wellll ,the dot)..... at all, immediately followed by 25 or so with the timer set to random and (welll...trying to) being done before the "beep" is finished. Both, strong and weak hand. Seems to be helping a little with my crappy shooting. Marked difference with the weak hand especially.
 

BrianWilson

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Interestingly as well I have noticed a big improvement in my ability to "call" my shot placement when live fire shooting quickly, that I'm pretty sure is from the repetitive watching the dot so closely in practice.
 
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