What's the big deal with the HK416

[GunGrey]

all I see is 416 this and 416 that and how great it is


does it crap ice cream or something ?

 

[ChevyGuy91]

Some people are just gay for anything HK.

 

[GunGrey]

sounds about right

 

[Dressed to Kill]

High quality rifle but like most things HK , overpriced.

 

[Bob P]

It's a good rifle but so are a lot others.

 

[carbuncle]

Look up the Military Arms Channel review of the HK MR556 (the civilian 416) on YouTube, he covers the myth and the reality and gives a great summary.

Posted from my car phone.

 

[hunt4riches]

all I see is 416 this and 416 that and how great it is


does it crap ice cream or something ?

I'll sum it up for you.

Average AR: 99% reliable.
416: 99.5%

I shoot colts. Most of my issues were the ammo.

 

[retroLS1]

People have huge boners for it cause I believe that's what SEAL Team 6 used when they played hide and seek with Obama Bin Laden. You get extra Operator points for it.

 

[ColdDayInHell]

Some people are just gay for anything HK.

Yup.

High quality rifle but like most things HK , overpriced.

Also that.

The HK forum is like a circle jerk. I swear they sleep in HK sheets. HK stickers on their old BMW etc.

Previously posted a few years back. Still pretty complete.
G3Kurz

Why the HK416 is the Best 5.56mm Carbine in the World

This is all fact and not conjecture or opinion. I was the U.S. PM and developer at HK for the HKM4 (the early HK416 project name) and HK416 development from Day 1 thru May 2006. I assigned Larry Vickers and later Tom Kivlehan the temporary duties of HK416 PM while they were with HK. I sat alone with Ernst Mauch, Managing Director at HK in Germany when the first idea of starting a “Mid-Life Improvement Program” for the US M16/M4 was envisioned by Ernst in 2001, this coming on the heels of the very successful SA80A2 Mid-Life Improvement Program conducted for the Brits. While many at H&K were involved with SA80A2 and HKM4/HK416 efforts and contributed to their eventual success, Ernst was the one who got these two programs started and fed each to successful completion and user fielding. He is the true and only “father” of HK416. This being said it is not just one person but a team of dedicated and capable men and women who made HK416 and other great weapons happen.

Background
HK first created and briefed the concept of an improved M4 as far back as 2001. The choice of the gas system was a no brainer based on the success of other piston operated weapons, like the HK G36. The first HKM4’s were US M4A1 carbines loaned to HK which then had the first versions of the HK piston rod gas system installed in “Uncle Sam’s COLT’s” (not to be confused with Samuel Colt). The joint industry and user development of the HKM4, and then HK416, is considered by those in the know as they most successful rifle development program of its kind in recent history.

HK approached the user unit/our US Government partner on this effort with the idea for HKM4 after most every other US Government ordnance organization passed on it. After a legal review of the concept was conducted from the user side the program began basically on a hand shake and later a No Cost (0 dollar) contract for the development. HK developed the HKM4 for free in exchange for user involvement and prototype testing. In the end the users received a vastly improved 21st century AR-based rifle in less than 2 years from start to finish, including time wasted with the Colt law suit against the HKM4, with not a single US Government R&D dollar spent!

Those who know the current elite users of the HK416 will realize why they selected the HK416 over ALL other carbines available, to include the M4’s they replaced with the HK416, and that these organizations only buy and use the very best available. They selected the HK416 after detailed comparative testing against other weapons, to include in some cases the M4A1 and even SCAR L.

Proven Better
What makes the HK416 better than most if not all other M4-style weapons? You can decide for yourself based on the list of proven capabilities provided below. All these statements are documented in actual testing. Can your M4-style weapon approach this degree of performance? Does it have these features? Since the debut of the HKM4 at the 2004 SHOT Show, the concept of the piston operated M4-style weapon has been included in a rash of more than 12 (to date) similar AR-based weapons. While not the first company to offer a “pusher rod” M4-style weapon, NO ONE but H&K can yet claim the success of a piston operated M4-style weapon in the elite user community that the HK416 has achieved in a very short period of time.

HK416 Advantages – Upper Receiver

●Piston Rod Gas System
*70% less fouling and cleaning time (< 4 minutes for an HK416, > 12 for an M4)
An almost total lack of carbon fouling is present within the weapon during even extended operation. 95% of all carbon fouling, debris and heat leaves the muzzle of the HK416 upon firing.
*Little or no heat transfer to the bolt parts which results in 3-4 times increased service parts life and little to no requirement to reapply lubricant
*Ability to fire the weapon w/o lubricant. A lack of lubricant attracts less sand and grit in harsh environments thus improving reliability.
*Weapon operation not effected by the presence of water in the gas system
*User removable without tools
*Same gas system components and gas port location for all barrel lengths (10.4-20”)

●Cold Hammer Forged Barrel with Unique HK Tapered Bore Profile
*Improved Accuracy
*Long Barrel Service Life with less than 5% loss in muzzle velocity and accuracy in more than 20K rounds fired!
*Easily resists damage and/or reduces operator injury from an obstructed bore firing in the event of an obstructed bore (100% obstructed) occurrence (lodged projectile, water, mud, etc.) or excessive firing rates over 500-700 rounds (melt down)
*Bore and chamber chrome plated for improved corrosion resistance and reduced wear

●Improved Accuracy
10.4" barreled HK416's regularly out shoot 14.5" barreled M4's for accuracy - some HK416’s with 10.4” barrels shoot @ 1 MOA with match ammo! A randomly selected HK416 with 10.4” barrel from a production lot of more than 300 guns fired multiple 1 inch groups at 100 meters from a rest with match ammo (IMI 55 grain BTHP) during USG acceptance testing.

●Increased Parts Service Life
*HK416’s selected at random in USG testing have fired 15K rounds and more without a single stoppage or parts failure. In fact one gun was then tested to 30K rounds with no parts failures or stoppages recorded. M4 parts and barrel are expected to last only 6000 rounds or less as per the Army’s MIL SPEC for the weapon. (These relatively low numbers are accurate as per numerous reports from M4 users and armorers).
*ALL HK416 parts are guaranteed for a minimum of 15K rounds.
*Increased service life helps eliminate failures in combat, time and costs for repeated parts replacement and weapon repair.
*HK416’s have fired 30K rounds in testing without the replacement of a single part whereas an M4 to reach that round count will have replaced barrels and bolts at least 2 – 4 times, as well as various small parts (extractors, extractor springs).

●Increased Reliability
*HK416’s have fired more than 20K rounds without stoppages or parts failures, with NO cleaning or lubrication applied during those 20K rounds

●Bolt Carrier “Bell” Design for increased function and reliability

●Bolt
*Does not require extractor removal for cleaning
*Has support lug on extractor (and barrel extension) to limit excess compression of extractor spring
*Bolt head supports the cartridge case head
*No gas rings required

●One-piece Piston Rod “Carrier Key”
*Improved reliability and component service life

●Firing Pin Safety
*Prevents slam or drop fires and primer indents during chambering

●Higher Cook Off Rate (> 250 rounds versus < 210 for an M4)

●Free-floating User Removable 4-Quadrant Rail System
*100% return-to-zero/bore sight retention
*Allows user attachment w/o tools of US Army/HK 40x46 mm XM320 Grenade Launcher Module (GLM)

●Barrel Exchange by Armorer in less than 4 minutes
*Headspace automatically fixed with install

●Longer (10mm) Barrel Threads on Upper Receiver
*Improved Barrel Retention
*Improved Accuracy

HK416 Advantages – Lower Receiver

●Flared Magazine Well
*Assists in the ease and speed of reloading

●Improved HK-style Buffer Retainer
*Improved buffer retention for increased reliability

●HK Tungsten Granulate Buffer and Buffer Spring
*Improves feeding and locking reliability and reduces bolt “bounce back” to eliminate “light strikes”. One HK buffer and buffer spring is delivered with every HK416 and HK416 upper receiver.

●Improved HK High-Reliability Steel Magazine – up to 30% improvement in feed reliability over that with the standard aluminum USGI magazine. One HK magazine is delivered with every HK416 and HK416 upper receiver.

HK416 Advantages – Miscellaneous

●Special Order “Over the Beach” (OTB) Variant/Capability
*Allows the HK416 to be safely fired and reliably, if need be, from the surf with it completely full of water. This can be done repeatedly without ill effect to the shooter or weapon (an M4 blows the top of the receiver off).



●Unique HK Safety Blank Firing Adapter
*Will “catch” up to 3 live projectiles if accidentally mixed with blank ammunition during blank firing training

●Unit Price
The HK416 price includes a user removable free floating rail system with insured/proven return-to-zero, HK buffer and spring, sling, manual and 30-rd steel "high-reliability" magazine – US DoD cost $1425 (qty of one). Current 2007 US DoD pricing for the US M4 with non-free floating rail system and USGI magazine is $1300 (qty of 400K).

●System Lifecycle Cost
The M4 is a good gun and has served and continues to serve its users well. The HK416 is simply better, packed with the many features and capabilities described above and thus it does cost slightly more. If you have not experienced an HK416 for yourself you simply don't have it as a high water mark point of reference (a horse drawn carriage looks fine until you experience your first model T!)

The US military price, from the large quantity (10K+) US Government contract for an M4 w/o rail system is/was @ $967. A KAC free-floating rail is $200-$400 and requires armorer installation and barrel removal to mount it. So that’s @ $1200-$1400 for a comparably equipped M4 with free-floating rail system.

An HK416 with rail system costs @ $1425. More money yes but A LOT more gun. Why do you think the M4's maker is improving (new op rod gas system, rail system, etc.) the M4 now (Colt’s “M5”) after so many years?

If you add up the cost and time to replace M4 bolt heads, extractors and springs and barrels to get to the service life of the HK416 parts (>20K rounds) you've already easily covered any price difference between the two weapons AND with the HK416 you have superior weapon performance and operator safety for the entire life cycle of the system.

That means a whole lot to the current users who are the most elite of the elite. They can also use the shorter 10” barreled HK416 in places where the 14.5” barreled M4 is simply too long, like from vehicles, and still not lose accuracy down range.

You can also get all these upgrades, except the flared mag well and HK buffer retainer, by simply adding a drop-on HK416 upper receiver "upgrade" kit to an M16 or M4 lower for just over $1000. Oh, and don’t forget the 7.62x51mm HK417. You can’t get that from the M4’s maker, and there is a 6.8mm SPC HK416 available as well.

 

[rkwjunior]

Yup.



Also that.

The HK forum is like a circle jerk. I swear they sleep in HK sheets. HK stickers on their old BMW etc.

Yup, and i'm sure the Colt forum is a Colt circle jerk, and the Glock forum is Glock circle jerk.

The NES forum is a circle jerk of an even higher order. And i'm honored to be a part of the biggest circle jerk in the world.

 

[M1911]

It's an awesome rifle in Battlefield 4.

Oh, that's not what you meant?

 

[ColdDayInHell]

Yup, and i'm sure the Colt forum is a Colt circle jerk, and the Glock forum is Glock circle jerk.

The NES forum is a circle jerk of an even higher order. And i'm honored to be a part of the biggest circle jerk in the world.

Hey at least you know.

 

[l3uddha]

I was at a function with colt m4 and hk416 machine guns on display next to each other. the hk is better looking and feeling in my opinion. the colt had an acog on it, so naturally the masses overlooked the hk and picked up the colt and the hk lay there practically untouched. to the untrained eye they're the same, but for some with attention to detail the hk is a very sleek and sexy gun right out of the box. its curvy in all the right places. whether or not the cost is justified depends on whether or not you've got the money in hand. I don't!!

 

[ACB84]

its just funny here that probably most with an opinion about it probably hasn't shot it or even held one for that matter. There happy with their cheap POS m&p15 that they think is the sh*t because they were able to get it for dirt cheap.

 

[Terminator03]

its just funny here that probably most with an opinion about it probably hasn't shot it or even held one for that matter. There happy with their cheap POS m&p15 that they think is the sh*t because they were able to get it for dirt cheap.

I think that may be partially true, but the simple fact is that some look at it like a fix for a non-existent problem, especially for the way that 99.9% of civilian owned ARs will ever be used. Sure, if you are doing a frogman style beach invasion, you may want to opt for that more expensive version, but for punching holes in paper, or knocking down steel, maybe not so much. That being said, if I had a ton of money to burn, I might buy one "just because".

 

[Jsfitzgerald85]

i think its a gorgeous looking rifle. I dont own anything HK, but dont they make great quality products?

 

[ggboy]

Is the HK 416 MA legal/If so , what is the price?
Just out of curiosity.
GGboy

 

[atilla]

Some people are just gay for anything HK.

this.

midway has 416 uppers.

 

[Jsfitzgerald85]

this.

midway has 416 uppers.

for the bargain price of $2200.00, ya i dont think id ever spend that much on a upper. that price is crazy

 

[ACB84]

Yea there legal. Your only going to find uppers, and on a few occasions there have been the legit 416d lowers on gunbroker lately. The real 416d lowers were selling for over $6k on gunbroker while the 416 uppers vary in price depending on the barrel length/ The 10.4', which requires a tax stamp when you install it on a lower, go for about $3k and up. Theres a 14.5" on gunbroker now with bids over $4k. The 16" and 20" 416 uppers are rare. Seen a 20" 416 upper sell for $10K on gunbroker.

Is the HK 416 MA legal/If so , what is the price?
Just out of curiosity.
GGboy

 

[atilla]

for the bargain price of $2200.00

the worst part is that if i had $2,200 laying around i'd buy it.

operator operating operationally.

 

[ACB84]

those are the mr556 upper.

hks webstore sells them for $1895

for the bargain price of $2200.00

 

[carbuncle]

I think that may be partially true, but the simple fact is that some look at it like a fix for a non-existent problem, especially for the way that 99.9% of civilian owned ARs will ever be used. Sure, if you are doing a frogman style beach invasion, you may want to opt for that more expensive version, but for punching holes in paper, or knocking down steel, maybe not so much. That being said, if I had a ton of money to burn, I might buy one "just because".

Yeah, it's on my lottery list along with a Lamborghini. In the meantime, I'll just pick ip a perfectly serviceable AR not made of unobtainium.

Posted from my car phone.

 

[MrJones79]

Yea there legal. Your only going to find uppers, and on a few occasions there have been the legit 416d lowers on gunbroker lately. The real 416d lowers were selling for over $6k on gunbroker while the 416 uppers vary in price depending on the barrel length/ The 10.4', which requires a tax stamp when you install it on a lower, go for about $3k and up. Theres a 14.5" on gunbroker now with bids over $4k. The 16" and 20" 416 uppers are rare. Seen a 20" 416 upper sell for $10K on gunbroker.

There have been a few shops selling complete rifles in MA compliant versions. One place had one for around $3200 I think.

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk

 

[ACB84]

those are the mr556 civilian versions of the 416. The 416 upper is more common to be found. The majority of the 416s imported in where registered with the ATF as MG's and therefore no civilian will get there hands on one of those.

There have been a few shops selling complete rifles in MA compliant versions. One place had one for around $3200 I think.

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk

 

[ACB84]

This is what a dealer posted in the hkpro forum about how we dealt with the ATF to get some 416d lowers re-registered.

"I worked with ATF to have these reclassified as pre-May Dealer Sample SBRs a couple of years ago. I have the letter somewhere in my paperwork. They are legally the same as the semi-only Sig 551/552s SBRs that have been sold recently.

HK imported these guns as "machineguns" even though they all lacked the defining feature that makes an AR pattern rifle a "machinegun", the autosear hole. I bought one as a "single fire only" post May Dealer Sample machinegun and, when it arrived with no autosear hole, started exploring my options to have it reclassified as a pre-May Dealer Sample SBR. ATF initially gave me the "once a machinegun, always a machinegun" routine but then a very proactive ATF supervisor reached out to me and started asking for details. I sent numerous photos and he agreed that it may have been papered as a "machinegun" but that it never actually was a "machinegun."

Long story short, ATF sent out letters reclassifying all of these "single fire only machineguns" as pre-May Dealer Sample SBRs. That said, they can easily be made Title 1 guns by removing the short barreled uppers and sending ATF a letter requesting removal from the NFA registry. Then, if you want, you can manufacture a new domestic SBR with the correct number of US made parts. This is especially easy with AR pattern rifles since almost everything aftermarket is US made."

Latest 416d lower sold on GB
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=391614745

 

[atilla]

$6,844.19.
stripped lower.

$6,844.19.
stripped lower.

$6,844.19.
stripped lower.

mein gott. i am totally gay for HK, but i guess i'm going to have to re-classify myself as bi-curious as there's no ****ing way i'd pay nearly $7,000 for a stripped AR receiver.

 

[hy2rogen]

This is what a dealer posted in the hkpro forum about how we dealt with the ATF to get some 416d lowers re-registered.

"I worked with ATF to have these reclassified as pre-May Dealer Sample SBRs a couple of years ago. I have the letter somewhere in my paperwork. They are legally the same as the semi-only Sig 551/552s SBRs that have been sold recently.

HK imported these guns as "machineguns" even though they all lacked the defining feature that makes an AR pattern rifle a "machinegun", the autosear hole. I bought one as a "single fire only" post May Dealer Sample machinegun and, when it arrived with no autosear hole, started exploring my options to have it reclassified as a pre-May Dealer Sample SBR. ATF initially gave me the "once a machinegun, always a machinegun" routine but then a very proactive ATF supervisor reached out to me and started asking for details. I sent numerous photos and he agreed that it may have been papered as a "machinegun" but that it never actually was a "machinegun."

Long story short, ATF sent out letters reclassifying all of these "single fire only machineguns" as pre-May Dealer Sample SBRs. That said, they can easily be made Title 1 guns by removing the short barreled uppers and sending ATF a letter requesting removal from the NFA registry. Then, if you want, you can manufacture a new domestic SBR with the correct number of US made parts. This is especially easy with AR pattern rifles since almost everything aftermarket is US made."

Latest 416d lower sold on GB
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=391614745

People are really that dumb, and have that much money to blow on a piece up aluminum...disgusting.

 

[ACB84]

im with you atilla. i love hk products but i could never find the cash to justify spending that much on just a lower.

 

[MrJones79]

im with you atilla. i love hk products but i could never find the cash to justify spending that much on just a lower.

Same here. Even, as you pointed out, the civilian mr556 is a rip off, imo. I ended up going with LMT when I last looked at high end ARs.

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk