What's the big deal with the HK416

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Wrong about what, exactly. That they can choose their weapons? That they use Hk's? That the Hk 416 was used in Operation Neptune Spear? What exactly am I wrong about?

The joke, you missed it. He said, she said, I said, you said, operator said, don't make it true.

It is the internet, and unless you are involved in the black ops you are going on and on about, don't take it personally.
 
I know someone who was one of the original Hk representatives (back when SACo was the importer) and he demo'd Hk weapons throughout the U.S., including to the famed Texas Rangers. And, he said that if money and politics were taken out of the equation, 9 out of 10 agencies would buy Hk products. That is saying something.

Oh, well, if the HK salesman said that the famed Texas Rangers liked them, then that settles everything. [rolleyes]
 
Worrying about what the military uses (or even how they test their guns) is ****ing pointless. If it is something that happens to be a coincidence, then so be it... but anyone who uses it as a selection criteria for their own guns to buy is a moron. That would be as dumb as me saying that everyone should use only Glocks, Sigs and M&Ps because "dats what most police carry so its good for you". The whole thing is just mind numbing.

-Mike

Yep, I agree. But, this is how a ton of people make their purchasing decisions for better or worse. Kind of a stupid decision making process...pick a firearm that suits your needs, budget, comfort, etc....or just pick what the cops or military use. Hmm, which is more rational? I wonder how many people will start running to buy FN M4 style rifles now that Colt no longer has the military contract.
 
if you would have actually looked over the whole thread before posting you would have realized that i posted the info for how the dealer got the select few 416d lowers to be able to be registered.
Just to clarify a few points:

1. Except for the 100-200 Hk 416 D rifles that were imported in semi auto, the 416 is not legal to own.
2. Some of the 416 D's were ordered in factory semi auto by LEA's because their personnel were fairly unsophisticated with machine guns and they didn't want to have them shooting full auto.
3. Someone realized that the 100-200 semi auto Hk 416s were improperly classified as NFA items. They had them reclassified by ATF as SBRs and then later removed them from the NFA registry altogether.
4. Those 100-200 rifles are the ONLY legal legitimate Hk 416s that a civilian can own.
5. Hk 416 uppers are more readily available and, because they are not a "gun", can be owned by anyone (except the 10.4" upper, I believe, needs to be registered as an SBR if you put it on a lower).
6. The 10.4", 16.5" and 20" authentic Hk 416 uppers sell for between $3.5k - $8k depending on condition.
7. If you see an Hk 416 upper advertised for $2,200 it is probably just a MR556 converted to a 416 style upper. Read the fine print.
8. The 416 is one bad @ss rifle. You can sh!t on it all you want but there is a reason it is used by the greatest assault teams ever organized. They can have whatever they want and the fact that they chose the Hk 416 to carry out one of the most important missions in military history speaks volumes.
 
if you would have actually looked over the whole thread before posting you would have realized that i posted the info for how the dealer got the select few 416d lowers to be able to be registered.

Understood. I read the entire thread and wanted to make a single post that covered the only way a civilian can get real Hk 416. Most of the pieces were addresses throughout the various posts but I wanted to provide a single source post.
 
Oh, well, if the HK salesman said that the famed Texas Rangers liked them, then that settles everything. [rolleyes]

I'm just relaying information that was conveyed to me. He was also an original OSS op and a world class marksman. You can trust Guns & Ammo and AR-15.com. I'll trust the guy who was across
enemy lines risking his life with every shot he took.
 
I'm just relaying information that was conveyed to me. He was also an original OSS op and a world class marksman. You can trust Guns & Ammo and AR-15.com. I'll trust the guy who was across
enemy lines risking his life with every shot he took.

1) I don't read Guns & Ammo.
2) I don't read AR-15.com
3) Way back when, all the cool kids wanted the MP5. Now few of the cool kids want the MP5.
4) As a result of #3, lots of the cool kids think the USPc is the best thing since sliced bread. I've got one (had another), and frankly it is at best, meh.

Is the 416 a decent rifle? Probably. Is it the light saber that some people think it to be? No. Is the M4 the useless club that some people think it to be? No. Give me a 416 and give a tier 1 guy a rusty old AK. Guess what? I'll still die quickly.

People are so hung up on hardware when the important part is the wetware.
 
Is the 416 a decent rifle? Probably. Is it the light saber that some people think it to be? .
[rofl] Ha. Ha.. That actually made me laugh out loud. Well played, sir. Well played. I will, however, say that the Mp5 is still one of the most sought after machine guns on the market. If you know anyone who has one and doesn't think it's cool, I will gladly take it off their hands!!!
 
[rofl] Ha. Ha.. That actually made me laugh out loud. Well played, sir. Well played. I will, however, say that the Mp5 is still one of the most sought after machine guns on the market. If you know anyone who has one and doesn't think it's cool, I will gladly take it off their hands!!!

Is it cool? Absolutely. But most tactical teams have gone to a shorty M4 instead -- 5.56 will penetrate body armor and has the ballistics for a 100 yard shot if need be.
 
Is it cool? Absolutely. But most tactical teams have gone to a shorty M4 instead -- 5.56 will penetrate body armor and has the ballistics for a 100 yard shot if need be.

I hear ya. I think 9mm in a machine gun, while still lethal, doesn't have the stopping power that's required these days. That being said, I'd still buy one in a heartbeat.
 
I hear ya. I think 9mm in a machine gun, while still lethal, doesn't have the stopping power that's required these days. That being said, I'd still buy one in a heartbeat.

Because the world has changed so much?
 
Yeah the SBR m4's do well in CQB but so does the MP7, which has been proven to penetrate body armor over 100 yards away, is a lot more compact and surprisingly manufactured by the same company as the 416. Last i checked they make the majority of subguns, MP5, MP7 and the UMP.
Is it cool? Absolutely. But most tactical teams have gone to a shorty M4 instead -- 5.56 will penetrate body armor and has the ballistics for a 100 yard shot if need be.
 
i believe that the lack of stopping power from the MP5 is a reason why HK created the UMP

No, not really. The UMP was created by HK so they could try to pull a fast one on their SMG customers so they could make more money on every gun they sold, because an MP5 is more expensive for them to make. It comes in .45, .40, and 9mm. They made it in .45 first because they had no SMG in that caliber and they were hoping they could get people to accept the gun by osmosis, so to speak... didn't pan out too well. [laugh]

-Mike
 
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UMP9.

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UMP – CAL. 9 MM X 19
General
Calibre 9 mm x 19
Operating principle Recoil-operated
Magazine capacity 30 rounds
Modes of fire 0-1-D
Rate of fire approx. 600/min
Sights D
Buttstock FO
Dimensions
Length min./max. approx. 455/695 mm
Width approx. 69.0 mm
Height approx. 280.0 mm
Barrel length approx. 200 mm
Sight radius approx. 325.0 mm
Weight
Weapon approx. 2,350 g
Magazine approx. 150 g
 
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