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What is up with stripped AR lowers, is the age to purchase 18 or 21?

H

HarryCallahan

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So after a few months of trying to decide whether to build an AR or a shotgun or hi point carbine, I decided to build an AR. I found a dealer on armslist selling TN arms co lowers for $40 flat. After reading into this a bit, I am getting conflicting reports or what age you need to be to purchase a stripped lower. I initially assumed that it would be 18, because it would be considered a long gun, but I am hearing about some ATF ruling about them being considered "other" instead of a rifle or handgun. This is in NH if it is relevant.

If it is 21, I guess I must have screwed some ATF director's wife in a past life because I am having horrible luck in trying to buy a firearm, can't find a cheap shotgun, can't find a cheap .22, cheap sks's and ak's have dried up, can't build an AR.
 
I am not a lawyer and this is not legal advice....

Stripped lowers are considered "Other Firearm" and as I understand things you have to be 21 because the lower could potentially be built into an AR pistol.
 
A frame or receiver can only be transferred to those 21 or older.

See the instructions for Form 4473:

Question 18. Type of Firearm(s): Check all boxes that apply. “Other” refers to frames, receivers and other firearms that are not either handguns or long guns (rifles or shotguns), such as firearms having a pistol grip that expel a shotgun shell, or National Firearms Act (NFA) firearms.

If a frame or receiver can only be made into a long gun (rifle or shotgun), it is still a frame or receiver not a handgun or long gun. However, they still are “firearms” by definition, and subject to the same GCA limitations as any other firearms. See Section 921(a)(3)(b).

18 U.S.C. Section 922(b)(1) makes it unlawful for a licensee to sell any firearm other than a shotgun or rifle to any person under the age of 21. Since a frame or receiver for a firearm, to include one that can only be made into a long gun, is a “firearm other than a shotgun or rifle,” it cannot be transferred to anyone under the age of 21.
Click to expand...

https://www.atf.gov/file/61446/download
 
HarryCallahan said:
So after a few months of trying to decide whether to build an AR or a shotgun or hi point carbine, I decided to build an AR. I found a dealer on armslist selling TN arms co lowers for $40 flat. After reading into this a bit, I am getting conflicting reports or what age you need to be to purchase a stripped lower. I initially assumed that it would be 18, because it would be considered a long gun, but I am hearing about some ATF ruling about them being considered "other" instead of a rifle or handgun. This is in NH if it is relevant.

If it is 21, I guess I must have screwed some ATF director's wife in a past life because I am having horrible luck in trying to buy a firearm, can't find a cheap shotgun, can't find a cheap .22, cheap sks's and ak's have dried up, can't build an AR.
Click to expand...

Just as with handguns, frames/receivers cannot be transferred to you unless you are over 21. Find a private party who has one.
 
Pistol grip shotguns are another one on the 'no-go' list of transfers by an FFL to anyone under 21, but there's nothing illegal about an 18-20

year old purchasing a shotgun with a shoulder stock and converting it.
 
Wrench75 said:
Not sure about the exact prices at the walmarts in NH. But I have Mossburg 702 plinksters in my case for $113 and Savage 12 or 20 ga. shotguns for $172. It may be worth taking a ride to NH.
Click to expand...

I've been looking on armslist for 6 months or so for a used 500, 870,ithica 37, and variants thereof that wasn't priced at retail +$50 but people round here want $150 for single shot or bolt action shotguns on armslist, so no luck. If there was anything priced decently, it would have a 28" barrel. I was just going to by a Maverick 88 a few weeks ago but a few days before I was going pick one up, the price went from $200 to $236, S.O.L there.

I haven't seriously searched for a .22 but I have kept my eyes open for a older 10/22 for around $175, but people no joke want retail or more for used ones, so S.O.L there as well.

Not interested in the plinkster, if I could find a Savage 320 at a steal of a price I would pick one up, but I don't want to pay full price for something I am not interested in.
 
HarryCallahan said:
I've been looking on armslist for 6 months or so for a used 500, 870,ithica 37, and variants thereof that wasn't priced at retail +$50 but people round here want $150 for single shot or bolt action shotguns on armslist, so no luck. If there was anything priced decently, it would have a 28" barrel. I was just going to by a Maverick 88 a few weeks ago but a few days before I was going pick one up, the price went from $200 to $236, S.O.L there.

I haven't seriously searched for a .22 but I have kept my eyes open for a older 10/22 for around $175, but people no joke want retail or more for used ones, so S.O.L there as well.

Not interested in the plinkster, if I could find a Savage 320 at a steal of a price I would pick one up, but I don't want to pay full price for something I am not interested in.
Click to expand...

if you cant find a cheap shotgun or 22 lr your not looking hard enough.
Try local gun clubs with trap ranges always 870s and 1100s there as shooters are often looking to up grade,
cheap 22s there is always a half rack of old 22s in shops down my way. lots of hidden jems in these older 22s. better quality then also. Also kittery trading was excellent for cheap 22s

what your looking for sounds more like I want a cheap 22 for under 200 but it has to be XYX?

wish you where local I have some 22s im trying to sell
 
LoginName said:
Pistol grip shotguns are another one on the 'no-go' list of transfers by an FFL to anyone under 21, but there's nothing illegal about an 18-20

year old purchasing a shotgun with a shoulder stock and converting it.
Click to expand...

Interesting. Where is the codified difference between a pistol grip and conventional shotgun (assuming non-sawed off, non-AOW)?
 
Rob Boudrie said:
Interesting. Where is the codified difference between a pistol grip and conventional shotgun (assuming non-sawed off, non-AOW)?
Click to expand...



Pistol Grips and Shotguns
Firearms with pistol grips attached:
The definition of a shotgun under the GCA, 18 U.S.C. §921(a)(5), is “
a weapon designed or redesigned, made or
remade, and intended to be fired from the shoulder and de-
signed or redesigned and made or remade to use the energy of
an explosives to fire through a smooth bore either a number
of ball shot or single projectile for each single pull of the trig-
ger. Under the GCA, 18 U.S.C. §
921(a)(29)(A), handgun means “a firearm which has a short stock and is designed to
be held and fired by the use of a single hand.” Federal law
provides under 18 U.S.C. 922(b)(1), that if the firearm to be
transferred is “other than a rifle or shotgun,” the purchaser
must be 21 years of age or older.
Certain commercially produced firearms do not fall within
the definition of shotgun under the GCA even though
they utilize a shotgun shell for ammunition.

For example,
firearms that come equipped with a pistol grip in place of
the buttstock are not shotguns as defined by the GCA.
A firearm with a pistol grip in lieu of the shoulder stock is
not designed to be fired from the shoulder and, therefore,
is not a shotgun. Since it is a firearm “other than a rifle or
shotgun,” the purchaser must be 21 years of age or older.
Additionally, interstate controls apply. The licensee and
transferee must be residents of the same State.
Other questions raised pertain to entries made in the
licensee’s required records with respect to firearm “type.”
These entries should indicate the firearm type as “pistol grip
firearm.”
Click to expand...

http://www.nfaoa.org/documents/ffl-newsletter-2009-11.pdf
 
Somewhere, somehow, someone said something about some 80% lowers . I'm not exactly sure what they meant but it might be worth looking into.
 
Warning:

You guys are far too trusting. Is this new member (only 4 posts) even on our side? While He/She may be fine, be careful what is posted on here. The anti-gun crown is looking for every reason to take away our Natural and God given rights.
 
he/she missed kalash's thread from yesterday re: ASKING QUESTIONS that have already been answered 100 friggin times
 
boscru said:
he/she missed kalash's thread from yesterday re: ASKING QUESTIONS that have already been answered 100 friggin times
Click to expand...

I don't read this form much tbh, mostly just have asked questions. I got a type 53 and no ammo, so I don't exactly have much to contribute to this forum, I mostly use the Garage Journal or reddit or /k/.

design said:
Warning:

You guys are far too trusting. Is this new member (only 4 posts) even on our side? While He/She may be fine, be careful what is posted on here. The anti-gun crown is looking for every reason to take away our Natural and God given rights.
Click to expand...

I got better things to do with my life than ask questions about things I don't support. I wanted to build an AR on the cheap but now I am S.O.L.

mac1911 said:
if you cant find a cheap shotgun or 22 lr your not looking hard enough.
Try local gun clubs with trap ranges always 870s and 1100s there as shooters are often looking to up grade,
cheap 22s there is always a half rack of old 22s in shops down my way. lots of hidden jems in these older 22s. better quality then also. Also kittery trading was excellent for cheap 22s

what your looking for sounds more like I want a cheap 22 for under 200 but it has to be XYX?

wish you where local I have some 22s im trying to sell
Click to expand...

Trap range would be a waste of time because I doubt many people are there shooting trap with a 18.5" shotgun, I want a shotgun for HD, not skeet or trap. Sure there could be a few people with a 870 or something for sale with a few barrels, but I don't have the time to bug people at the range.

I might go to a local gun shop looking for a .22 a used, it is not a high priority for me, just something I am looking out for. Plus I am not really comfortable going to a shop without knowing what I want.

I am not looking for a specific one, I just don't a new pos like a plinkster or remlinm. I don't care if it is a Marlin/Glenfield, 10/22 or what have you, I just don't want something I can't take pride in owning.

Mesatchornug said:
even more fitting link:
http://www.northeastshooters.com/vb...rchased-an-ar15-upper-feeling-real-stupid-now
Click to expand...
Ouch, at least I was lucky enough to find out sooner rather than later.
 
HarryCallahan said:
I don't read this form much tbh, mostly just have asked questions. I got a type 53 and no ammo, so I don't exactly have much to contribute to this forum, I mostly use the Garage Journal or reddit or /k/.



I got better things to do with my life than ask questions about things I don't support. I wanted to build an AR on the cheap but now I am S.O.L.



Trap range would be a waste of time because I doubt many people are there shooting trap with a 18.5" shotgun, I want a shotgun for HD, not skeet or trap. Sure there could be a few people with a 870 or something for sale with a few barrels, but I don't have the time to bug people at the range.

I might go to a local gun shop looking for a .22 a used, it is not a high priority for me, just something I am looking out for. Plus I am not really comfortable going to a shop without knowing what I want.

I am not looking for a specific one, I just don't a new pos like a plinkster or remlinm. I don't care if it is a Marlin/Glenfield, 10/22 or what have you, I just don't want something I can't take pride in owning.


Ouch, at least I was lucky enough to find out sooner rather than later.
Click to expand...

You don't have time...this often leads to paying more.
You don't know what you want in a 22 even more reason to hit the gun shops see what's out there. Im not to tech savy and only have had a "smart" p hone for 6 months....it's great to Google info right there and take pics to do research.

Oh and as far as finding barrels......I found a slug barrel for my 870 for sale at. The trap range.

Go to Kittery trading post the prices might be a tad higher but they should have what your looking for. http://www.ktpguns.com/results.php?...&caliber=12 GA&action=SHOTGUN: PUMP&model=any

Quick search showed over 100 22s at Kittery from 110$ and up.

Maybe put up a want to buy post at the surrounding clubs...I did this for reloading equipment and was soon smothered with all sorts of good deals.
 
Last edited:
dezignguy said:
Somewhere, somehow, someone said something about some 80% lowers . I'm not exactly sure what they meant but it might be worth looking into.
Click to expand...
80% lowers are typically AR receivers that are 80% (more or less) complete. They require machining to be made into a stripped lower ready for assembly. This is for someone who wants a non-serial numbered AR -- or who wants to custom serial number or logo it.
 
the bottom has totally fallen out of the AR market. if you plan on building one cheaper than the cheapest off the rack POS you're going to be building a real POS, OP.
 
OP seems to have both lack of time and money --------that tends to be the beginning of a poor out come no matter what you do..... Heck it took me almost a year to save up and aquire the parts for my current build which if I decided to just buy it off the shelf would have ran somewhere between 1200-1500. Same for my recent scope perchase. about a years worth of saving and selling off my cheap 22s and other items to get my budget to match what I wanted.

OP I got one for you.
buy a SW sport for 575$ you can sell the upper and then build a upper. OK question is a complete lower with a rifle stock fall under the same federal guidelines as a stripped lower?
 
mac1911 said:
You don't have time...this often leads to paying more.
You don't know what you want in a 22 even more reason to hit the gun shops see what's out there. Im not to tech savy and only have had a "smart" p hone for 6 months....it's great to Google info right there and take pics to do research.

Oh and as far as finding barrels......I found a slug barrel for my 870 for sale at. The trap range.

Go to Kittery trading post the prices might be a tad higher but they should have what your looking for. http://www.ktpguns.com/results.php?...&caliber=12 GA&action=SHOTGUN: PUMP&model=any

Quick search showed over 100 22s at Kittery from 110$ and up.

Maybe put up a want to buy post at the surrounding clubs...I did this for reloading equipment and was soon smothered with all sorts of good deals.
Click to expand...

Sorry if I was coming off rude in my previous post, I feel like clarifying on a few things.

To be perfectly honest, I have the time, I just have no idea how I would go about asking people if they want to sell their shotgun's at a club. I assume there would be a bulletin board, but I am afraid of looking like an idiot for going to clubs uninvited and asking about things for sale.
 
Most clubs have public trap shooting throughout the week. Most regular shooters are easy to talk to and quick to offer advice. I'm sure you could spread the word that your in the market for a shotgun without a problem.
 
boscru said:
not my job---i'm not a paid employee
Click to expand...

but you take the time to post about people posting the same old shit... takes as much time to at least post the link you are talking about.

see how silly it gets...if its a subject you feel is beating the proverbial dead horse move on.
 
HarryCallahan said:
Sorry if I was coming off rude in my previous post, I feel like clarifying on a few things.

To be perfectly honest, I have the time, I just have no idea how I would go about asking people if they want to sell their shotgun's at a club. I assume there would be a bulletin board, but I am afraid of looking like an idiot for going to clubs uninvited and asking about things for sale.
Click to expand...

not at all rude...didn't take it that way...im also not trying to be rude or bust your nuts either.

Trap guys are always selling shotguns....up grade,moving on, what have you. The best thing to do is show up (as mentioned most clubs have open to public trap days) simply introduce yourself and ask around. I found my slug barrel (18.5" removable choke barrel) from a gent who had it on his sons 870 when they started trap. few years later they needed a little extra cash to buy a "trap" barrel. I just happened to look on the board that day and there it was. another thing is if clubs have Breakfast or dinners open to public. As and look on any boards they have. You can often find deals on good 22s also from jr shooters who are looking to up grade as well....my uddy just scored a awesome Winchester 75 for 200$ with nice target sights.
Father just wanted it gone and a little buffer cash as they stepped up their game to a Anshcutz 22 target rifle.

So take some time and poke around....there are deals to be had if you look and take some time. Give a good thought to what you want from XYZ firearms. As for HD shotgun I have a youth 870 20g with extended magazine. 1oz slugs are 1 oz slugs no matter what gauge. its compact ,light, and still delivers. I picked the 870 20g up for 100$ at kittery as it had a nice brown patina on the outer metal....easy fix. cleaned oiled and good to go
 
Jus' sayin'

design said:
Warning:

You guys are far too trusting. Is this new member (only 4 posts) even on our side? While He/She may be fine, be careful what is posted on here. The anti-gun crown is looking for every reason to take away our Natural and God given rights.
Click to expand...

Protip: in these situations, it's sufficient to post:

Is that you, Marsha?
​
 

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