Westport firearms dealer charged with selling illegal handguns

[Bonesinium]

I don't know what's worse the absurdity of this law or the prosecution of it.

The prosecution of it, by far. Without enforcement the law would be toothless and a moot point.

 

[drgrant]

I think you're right on the off-list. That's the tough one, legally-speaking. But I also think the post-ban magazine could be a problem if the crazy cop and an anti-gun prosecutor want to push it... or if they trip and fall somehow on the off-list charge. Remember, we are not dealing with reasonable, rational people here. Rather, I think we're dealing with lefties who have an agenda they want to push.

Yeah but I've seen this game before in MA and I know how it ends. The DA piles up a bunch of bologna charges, (most of which get dropped when the defense's attorney calls them out on it) then the one that's impossible to defend against gets worked into a plea bargain, and 99% of the people suck for the plea bargain and that's the end of it. The DA doesn't care if there's only one charge at the end, for a gun owner one felony is enough to basically equal "fatality" and functionally 1 felony vs 10 at that point is lost in the noise. The DAs mostly want to put a notch in the "W" column more than anything else. A simple plea setup makes it so that the defense will suck for the offer every time without turning it into a big dog and pony show where the public might, possibly maybe, start asking questions about why some business owner is being prosecuted for a victimless crime.

-Mike

 

[drgrant]

The prosecution of it, by far. Without enforcement the law would be toothless and a moot point.

It almost is toothless in MA because most LEOs ignore this crap as much as they possibly can. That alone is pretty telling. Otherwise we'd have one of these news reports every other week with a dealer getting shut down.

-Mike

 

[OldeBD]

The news is sweeping the state and its getting even worse with false leading information. [bs1]
http://www.berkshireeagle.com/news/...astern-massachusetts-dealer-sold-illegal-guns

I sent them an email asking for a correction linking GOAL's blog on the topic. It's lovely how the media can make up what ever they want to feed the sheep.

 

[Bonesinium]

It almost is toothless in MA because most LEOs ignore this crap as much as they possibly can. That alone is pretty telling. Otherwise we'd have one of these news reports every other week with a dealer getting shut down.

-Mike

Unfortunately the difference between almost being toothless and being toothless is huge not to mention a moot point itself when you are the person who it is being enforced against.

 

[jujutsuka]

I believe it was the former owner of Village Sports.

http://www.wcvb.com/news/300-guns-seized-from-westport-home/28329648

 

[drgrant]

Unfortunately the difference between almost being toothless and being toothless is huge not to mention a moot point itself when you are the person who it is being enforced against.

Very true but I guess my point was that situation basically reinforces how shitty/worthless "the lawr" really is.

-Mike

 

[MachineHead]

We need to get rid of the AWB and magazine nonsense is what we need. If these were state ballot questions, most people here and their loved ones would call out of work to vote.

 

[Hoover]

We need to get rid of the AWB and magazine nonsense is what we need. If these were state ballot questions, most people here and their loved ones would call out of work to vote.

The people who voted in the fake indian warren, obama by big numbers, kennedy, deval, all the other pols, etc. Would swamp the voting. It would lose at least 60/40 in this state on the ballot.

Remember who the majority of the voters are here, this isn't a state with a majority of smart people.

 

[MachineHead]

Those two things really suck and these sissies would vote against something they don't know about and would rather remain ignorant to. Just for kicks, does anyone know what the voting population density is outside of the 495 belt?

 

[josh2600]

The way that the wheels of <in>justice grind, that won't be difficult.

How long between Mike's arrest and the court case? IIRC it was >1 year.

The criminal case I testified (for the defense) was ~18 months between arrest and day in court.

However, I don't think that is going to help him. Once the sharks (DA and police) smell blood, they don't back off.

Would it matter? It doesn't change what happened when it wasn't on the list...?

 

[Hoover]

Those two things really suck and these sissies would vote against something they don't know about and would rather remain ignorant to. Just for kicks, does anyone know what the voting population density is outside of the 495 belt?

Not the best example but in the warren vs brown election in '12, Boston alone gave warren the difference between the two. And it's not just inside 495, springfield, new bedford, fall river, brockton, worcester, etc are all lib masses. And the bluest part of the state is all those small towns between rt 91 and the NY border, with few exceptions. Those bershire towns are small but they are very liberal. Maybe less on guns but they vote D by huge margins. Same percentages as cambridge, they are just smaller.

 

[josh2600]

I hope the people involved find out their spouses are cheating on them with their best friend, get divorced, lose their home, and their lives end up in ruins leading them to smoke crack, where they end up arrested and fired. Tyrants.

oh come on, it can get worse than that. Use some imagination next time

 

[MachineHead]

Thanks, Hoover. I guess I never really knew how out of our (pro2A) hands it really is.

 

[Serapis]

Cops are real heroes here. Maybe New Bedford should worry about their shit hole city before reaching into other towns


Sent from my mobile phone from behind enemy lines.

 

[Varmint]

The people who voted in the fake indian warren, obama by big numbers, kennedy, deval, all the other pols, etc. Would swamp the voting. It would lose at least 60/40 in this state on the ballot.

Remember who the majority of the voters are here, this isn't a state with a majority of smart people.

Yes, this state voted down eliminating the state income tax, remember that?

- - - Updated - - -

Would it matter? It doesn't change what happened when it wasn't on the list...?

A jury might say "why's he a felon, the gun is on the list?" I think it'd be a much tougher conviction if what he did is no longer illegal.

 

[Hoover]

Yes, this state voted down eliminating the state income tax, remember that?

I worked with a dink, David Tubman of Westboro. That POS voted against the repeal of the tolls on the MA pike (around 2000? election I think) He said why should I vote to repeal the tolls, I don't use the MA pike.

Look how close the repeal of the gas tax was last election. I think that was 52 or 54% to repeal a gas tax that was going to go up non stop with the cost of living adjustment. Even if you think gas taxes should go up, why would you let those gutless cowards set up a constant tax increase without ever needing to vote on it again?

Dukakis was governor, what, 3 times? Tank boy was a joke but not to MA lemmings. Barney Frank, Gerry Studds, Kennedy, etc. What I always say is if you are demented enough to vote for one of the loons they do here, how the heck can you be so proud to put a sticker on your car.

 

[71montess]

Can someone please develope an incurable cancer for people with democratic anti liberty traights ?

 

[Gooman24]

Can someone please develope an incurable cancer for people with democratic anti liberty traights ?

I'll donate money to that research!

Sent from my SPH-L900 using Tapatalk

 

[drgrant]

Would it matter? It doesn't change what happened when it wasn't on the list...?

There is a legal constuct called mootness. If someone is charged with a crime, and while awaiting prosecution, the offense is no longer a crime, a case can get dumped this way, because it no longer makes sense to punish the person for it. I doubt it's going to play into this case, but it's good to be aware of.

 

[EJFudd]

A jury might say "why's he a felon, the gun is on the list?" I think it'd be a much tougher conviction if what he did is no longer illegal.

There is a legal construct called mootness. If someone is charged with a crime, and while awaiting prosecution, the offense is no longer a crime, a case can get dumped this way, because it no longer makes sense to punish the person for it. I doubt it's going to play into this case, but it's good to be aware of.

The sooner the 43 ends up on the list, the better for this gun dealer. Once you get past (i.e., assuming a judge/jury can get past) all the leftist gun fear/anti-gun bullstuff, the alleged felony is really a simple technicality: Has the 43 made the list yet or not?

Let's start with the fact that most or all other Glocks, including the recent single stack predecessor 42, are already on the list. Let's go a step further and acknowledge that the 43 is fully anticipated to be added to the list on the next (or next to next) release. With a little good luck, it will be on the list long before this ever goes to trial.

The "evil gun person" thing aside, does the state have any interest in making felons out of business people if the alleged felony is no longer a felony long before it ever comes to trial? I'm no lawyer, but I predict this all ends with a fine and a big legal bill. But that said, his business is most likely history.

 

[Rob Boudrie]

the alleged felony is really a simple technicality: Has the 43 made the list yet or not?

The technicality is "was the gun on the list at the time of sale?". However, having it on the list will certainly be advantageous and will be better for the defendant.

 

[ridleyman]

Wasn't there a dealer in Northborough, perhaps, a few years ago who was busted for selling non-eops listed pistols, like FN, and then the cops didn't prosecute but went after the LTC customers to give the guns back (w/o compensation???)? Am I getting that right? I thought the LTC legal buyers of pretty much anything were exempted from prosecution and got to keep their toys.

Also, I noticed the Glock 21 gen 3 isn't on the list anymore, although the newer SF, C and gen 4 are!? I have a friend who bought a new, post ban G21 gen 3 at a nearby store, with only 2x10 round mags. Does he need to bury it in the backyard for a few years?

 

[Rob Boudrie]

Wasn't there a dealer in Northborough, perhaps, a few years ago who was busted for selling non-eops listed pistols, like FN, and then the cops didn't prosecute but went after the LTC customers to give the guns back (w/o compensation???)?

I am not aware of them going after the buyers (anyone have info on this?)

It was Mike @ Titegroup. I think he ended up paying a $6000 fine, and got a conviction that made him a federal PP for life. Prior to that, he lectured customers about how the AG could not do anything to him.

 

[namedpipes]

It is mind boggling that a crime that affected nobody in any way, that is: nobody received so much as a scratch. Nobody was threatened. Nobody lost property or even the use of their property. Nobody was diminished in any way. The transaction benefited both the seller and the buyer. And even the State BENEFITED from the "crime" by way of the sales tax.

How can something so bloody trivial be a crime? Never MIND a felony?

Yeah, yeah. I know it IS, but it is also profoundly STUPID. (on the part of the lawmakers)

 

[Rob Boudrie]

How can something so bloody trivial be a crime? Never MIND a felony?

Yeah, yeah. I know it IS, but it is also profoundly STUPID. (on the part of the lawmakers)

It is stupid if the motivation is public safety.

It is a smart strategy if the goal is banning guns, and the goal is to taker territory for their side any way possible.

 

[EJFudd]

It is mind boggling that a crime that affected nobody in any way, that is: nobody received so much as a scratch. Nobody was threatened. Nobody lost property or even the use of their property. Nobody was diminished in any way. The transaction benefited both the seller and the buyer. And even the State BENEFITED from the "crime" by way of the sales tax.

How can something so bloody trivial be a crime? Never MIND a felony?

Yeah, yeah. I know it IS, but it is also profoundly STUPID. (on the part of the lawmakers)

Yep. You are right. It's as stupid as stupid gets. But it makes lunatic anti-gun leftist moonbats happy. Welcome to Massachusetts.

 

[Len-2A Training]

It is stupid if the motivation is public safety.

It is a smart strategy if the goal is banning guns, and the goal is to taker territory for their side any way possible.

For those that weren't around back then . . .

Rob is 150% correct. Sadly I met those that were responsible for that law at the hearings in Boston. It was an end run to minimize the number of guns and dealers in MA, not about public safety. If they thought they could get a total ban on all possession of guns, they would have gone for it, so this was their 1/2way measure.

 

[Mike S]

The technicality is "was the gun on the list at the time of sale?". However, having it on the list will certainly be advantageous and will be better for the defendant.

Isn't this the same thing that comes up with MJ in the states where it's now legal? The catch being it was illegal when the person was caught with it so said person committed a crime at the time... or something like that.

 

[drgrant]

I am not aware of them going after the buyers (anyone have info on this?)

It was Mike @ Titegroup. I think he ended up paying a $6000 fine, and got a conviction that made him a federal PP for life. Prior to that, he lectured customers about how the AG could not do anything to him.

Well he was right about that part, the AG never touched him.

-Mike