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Virginia Mass Shooting Most Recent by Concealed Handgun Permit Holder
- Thread starter Loyalist
- Start date
Wow. 12 people have lost their marbles and killed 117 people since may of three years ago. So, in 32 months 117 people were killed. 3.56 people per month.
I'll let you make your own conclusions.
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It doesn't matter. You can scale this to all of the urban gun deaths, etc. It is the mass shootings part that the anti's get traction with. At the end of the day, no one gives a crap about what happens on the other side of the tracks. But "mass shootings" can happen anywhere and generally don't occur between hardened criminals. This is the same "it can happen to me" emotion that terrorism tickles. They know it. Expect it to be their new wedge issue.
G
GOAL C.M.
I can't remember the exact number but it's less than a tenth percent of the total number of licensed gun owners.
Compared to the amount of drunk drivers that kill people it's minuscule
Driving is a privilege, gun ownership is a right, yet one gets squelched way faster than the other.
Go figure.
Compared to the amount of drunk drivers that kill people it's minuscule
Driving is a privilege, gun ownership is a right, yet one gets squelched way faster than the other.
Go figure.
In 2008 alone there were 13,846 drunk driving fatalities.
So 13,846 deaths per year from drunks and 43 per year from nut jobs with LTC's.
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Let me add that this stat has come up before and the whole "permit holder" thing is over blown. There is a thread here somewhere but they consider permit to purchase as a CCW and in some cases just being non prohibited was considered having a CCW because they would have qualified for the permit. Nonetheless, this "mass shooting" angle is the new black.
As a contrast what about the numbers of mass shootings caused by people WITHOUT a permit? Oops....my bad, what am I thinking... we can't bring facts into the debate, that's not allowed. ![[thinking]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/010.gif "Thinking [thinking]")
They also don't want to talk about how the person having a CCW permit "enabled" any of these shootings to occur. Many of these incidents happened at homes and businesses, where it is generally lawful for people to carry guns anyways WITHOUT a permit.
Typical VPC bullsh*t. This is just a lame-as-hell end around attack on concealed carry.
-Mike
They also don't want to talk about how the person having a CCW permit "enabled" any of these shootings to occur. Many of these incidents happened at homes and businesses, where it is generally lawful for people to carry guns anyways WITHOUT a permit.
Typical VPC bullsh*t. This is just a lame-as-hell end around attack on concealed carry.
-Mike
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so people should have the rights to own body armor instead of firearm lol( well ). Because you can't kill a person with the armor vest. Gun is too dangerous when it fall into mental health peoples or criminals.
in 2009, 40 sharks attacked Humans, we should ban them from swimming in certain areas of the ocean.
''There are 80 million Americans who own guns, and to them, the right to own a firearm is a fundamental freedom,'' Mr. LaPierre said.
http://www.nytimes.com/2000/01/29/us/may-i-see-your-gun-license-please.html
p.s.quick search, not sure how accurate that is.
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Licensed is a far smaller number than lawful gun owners. Most states don't require a license.
June4th
NES Member
Once I explained to my dad, who spent his entire life in gun-free China (of course, the gov has guns), that the purpose of 2A is really to prevent tyranny of government against people. He immediately got it and said in that case, a few accidental deaths here and there or occasional murders are really a fair price to pay for liberty.
yes but they are referring to: Total People Killed by Concealed Handgun Permit Holders.
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Exactly. And that's from someone who has seen the alternative. Thanks for posting that. +1
In two consecutive lines, they can't even keep their numbers consistent...or were 74 of the people in the first line people who deserved to die?
If they didn't lose enough credibility with that:
So a psycho who kills his family is a "mass shooter"? Now they're just grasping at straws here. Before you know it, someone who commits suicide with a firearm (and kills no one else) will be deemed a mass shooter.
![[sad]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/004.gif "Sad [sad]")
The few accidental deaths are preventible with education and responsibility. The occasional murders have been shown to INCREASE when there are no guns in civillian hands. The government is the one who has suppressed the education part (in our public schools) so like with everything else, government intervention has raised the price of gun ownership.
pdm
NES Member
Ban the people, or the sharks?![[wink]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/002.gif "Wink [wink]")
Ban the sharks. THINK OF THE CHILDREN.
The guy who wrote that article is the nut job in my opinion. I'm glad to see it was primarily pro-gun advocates who responded to the article, with only a very small percentage of them (maybe 3) who were in opposition of concealed carry and weapons in general. I especially love the one individual who responded that the responders weren't comparing apples to apples, since they were comparing a gun (actual weapon) to cars which (can be used as a weapon, like anything else). However...THEIR logic is flawed! Can they explain why something that can be used as a weapon has taken thousands of more innocent lives than something that is an actual weapon? I love how moonbat reporters always have to leave out the facts that don't agree with their agenda
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None of these analysis look at both sides of the equation - such as how many lives are saved as a result of someone carrying with a permit? It's also reasonable to conclude that the majority of the "saves" by permit holders would not have occurred if they were not allowed to carry, but less reasonable to assume that the lack of a carry permit would cause a mass shooter to cancel his planned rampage because he was not licensed to carry the gun.
I like to look at all views and make up my own mind. After reading the link, I had all the answers I needed to form an opinion. First, many of the cases listed were not past charges (only a handful of convictions). Second, several were accidents or cases fo self-defense that could have gone either way (on in particular the victim was backing away after the gun was presented, then decided to lunge for the gun). Finally, it seems more than half of them happened in Florida (I don't know personally, but heard their gun laws are too lax). You can't just throw numbers up, every case is different. My guess, they are betting most people won't read through the cases.
+1 rep. Great post.
Bill Nance
Banned
The bogus portion of the article is that he's attempting to insinuate a connection between being a CCW holder and murder. A claim that's ludicrous on its face. How many of these CCW holders used their CCWs in a criminal manner? Few. You don't conceal a rifle, nor do you need a CCW to buy one. This clown certainly didn't abuse his CCW permit, he murdered family members in his OWN HOME, and even in California you can conceal a handgun in your own home without a permit.
There are about 14,000 murders in the US every year. 117 (the total number of people claimed in the article) is less than 1% of those. Or, about the same number as those murdered by strangulation, according to the DOJ
If your solution to crime is to narrowing in on something that causes less than 1% of murders UR doin' it WRONG.
There is no good solution to reducing our murder rate other than consistently incarcerating people who commit other serious, violent felonies. Even a total ban on all private firearms along with confiscation would have limited effects and that is not going to happen in the U.S. The most anti-gun congress and president wouldn't touch that one with a ten-foot pole. You'd have a major popular uprising and the courts would likely strike it down.
I feel exactly the same way about this that I do about the terrorist attempt on Christmas. there is absolutely no way, in a free society that we will catch every bad guy or stop every attempt. One person has to screw up one time, or the BG has to get lucky one time, out of many many attempts, to have a spectacular crime. The clowns who think CCW holders are the problem are the same dummies who scream like little girls every time there's a terrorist attempt and insist on security theatre at airports. It won't help the problem but it will make them "feel safer."
Living in a free society has costs. And like every other basic human right, the human right of self-defense isn't without a cost either.
There are about 14,000 murders in the US every year. 117 (the total number of people claimed in the article) is less than 1% of those. Or, about the same number as those murdered by strangulation, according to the DOJ
If your solution to crime is to narrowing in on something that causes less than 1% of murders UR doin' it WRONG.
There is no good solution to reducing our murder rate other than consistently incarcerating people who commit other serious, violent felonies. Even a total ban on all private firearms along with confiscation would have limited effects and that is not going to happen in the U.S. The most anti-gun congress and president wouldn't touch that one with a ten-foot pole. You'd have a major popular uprising and the courts would likely strike it down.
I feel exactly the same way about this that I do about the terrorist attempt on Christmas. there is absolutely no way, in a free society that we will catch every bad guy or stop every attempt. One person has to screw up one time, or the BG has to get lucky one time, out of many many attempts, to have a spectacular crime. The clowns who think CCW holders are the problem are the same dummies who scream like little girls every time there's a terrorist attempt and insist on security theatre at airports. It won't help the problem but it will make them "feel safer."
Living in a free society has costs. And like every other basic human right, the human right of self-defense isn't without a cost either.
I agree but you really need to move your thinking one step forward- eg, that even if guns DID cause some crime (somehow) that we still have to support ownership because the alternative will always be morally reprehensible in comparison. Freedom has costs, and part of protecting freedom is learning to live with whatever costs come along with it. When people cannot do this, tyranny reigns supreme. (Just hop on a commercial airliner these days, for one little taste of that crap... the tip of the iceberg, as it were.... ) Also, to put things in perspective any "negatives" from guns in our society are nothing more than a light coating of sawdust statistically- The cost to society of open gun ownership by most adults is "cheap" in the grand scheme of things, and the dividends in freedom and safety are enormous in comparison.
-Mike
pdm
NES Member
Make repeat offenders dance a hangman's jig.
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