Vietnam poser (?)

The more they talk, the more you know ...

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The only person I knew who I believed this of never mentioned a word of it in the decade+ I knew him - I had to wait until after he died to find out who and what he really was.
 
Rob Boudrie said:
The only person I knew who I believed this of never mentioned a word of it in the decade+ I knew him - I had to wait until after he died to find out who and what he really was.
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I knew a guy, in passing, for over ten years. Just a drunk at a bar I frequented in Worcester. One night I got to talking to him. I never heard him talk war stories before. He became focused and articulate when he talked about Vietnam. When he was done talking, I understood why he was the way he was.

When I left Worcester for good, after 20 years, I invited him to the house for the going away party we were having. He gave me a book, from his own library, "To Fish And Hunt In Maine". It's a good read.

I really don't like when some guys fake a war history and talk a lot of crap.
 
Funny, I learned the story this week of two men involved in the same action in Vietnam, where they were both awarded the Distinguished Service Cross.

One of them, a Lieutenant John Rowland went on to become a Major and eventually retired after a full career in the Rangers. He developed PTSD, began to drink heavily, and ended his life sitting around bars telling stories that were true that no one believed, and showed him no respect.

The other man, Specialist 4 Billy Comer, lived and worked in his home town after the war, got married and had a family. When he died at an early age a year or so ago, his family found out when they filed for his "burial benefit" that Billy had been presented the DSC as well. They never knew. He had never mentioned it.

One true American Hero, sitting drunk in a bar yakking in the ear of anyone who will listen, and one guy who never says a word. Same day, same hill, same battle.

A very interesting true story.
 
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T(1)of(3) said:
Now you say "Ferrari" hat, vet, CIA... just out of curiosity...did he have a beautiful blond on his arm? Might have been BCEagle. He never lies so it must have been the truth.[rofl]
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It didn't look the the pictures I've seen of him, but I caught the Ferrari reference, hence my [laugh] when I said it.

depicts said:
Funny, I learned the story this week of two men involved in the same action in Vietnam, where they were both awarded the Distinguished Service Cross.

One of them, a Lieutenant John Rowland went on to become a Major and eventually retired after a full career in the Rangers. He developed PTSD, began to drink heavily, and ended his life sitting around bars telling stories that were true that no one believed, and showed him no respect.

The other man, Specialist 4 Billy Comer, lived and worked in his home town after the war, got married and had a family. When he died at an early age a year or so ago, his family found out when they filed for his "burial benefit" that Billy had been presented the DSC as well. They never knew. He had never mentioned it.

One true American Hero, sitting drunk in a bar yakking in the ear of anyone who will listen, and one guy who never says a word. Same day, same hill, same battle.

A very interesting true story.
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Both of my grandfathers served in Korea as Army infantry. One wrote a journal/paper type thing about his exploits very recently when he was emotionally well enough to, and the other never spoke a word about it. The one who didn't, I called him Grampy, and as a little boy I'd sit near him and ask him questions about his life, time in the Army, time as a cop, sometimes to the point where he'd want to kill me. [laugh]

He answered all of my questions, but as an emotionally battered man who'd led a hard life, he said some things that he probably shouldn't have told a 4 or 5 year old, including describing a murder that he witnessed while on a ship full of soldiers bound for Korea, a murder that started over the cost of a blueberry pie. If anyone's interested I'll share that one.

Anyway, Grampy showed me the shrapnel that was still in his arm, the scars from the 3 bullets he took, which led me to ask even more questions. He told me about the time that he was shot in the leg at the front, and they were running low on ammo, so when all the wounded were put in the backs of trucks to go to the rear, they left their ammo with their buddies who were still fighting. While driving back, they came under fire in an ambush, and the panicked driver stalled the truck and couldn't get it started again. The driver called back to the wounded soldiers in the back "Good luck" and jumped on the back of another truck from their convoy that was passing, leaving them to die surrounded by the enemy and helpless, with no ammo.

Grampy, 17 or 18 at the time, had been shot in the leg, but no one else in the truck was even able to walk, so he jumped down off the back while under heavy fire and hopped to the front of the truck. He got behind the wheel and drove that stickshift truck to safety with a GSW in his thigh, saving the lives of the dozen or so wounded in the back. As a kid I didn't fully appreciate the heroism of what he did, how bad of a situation that must have been, but as I grew older I really started to understand that he was a man to be respected, even when we deeply disagreed on something. He got a medal or two for that too, I don't remember what, but now I'm motivated to find out the details.

More than 50 years later, he died peacefully in his house after spending the week with his best friend, doing all the things he loved. He'd made peace with his demons and did a lot of healing, and while he still carried a .357 and had his opinions, he was a lot more calm and happy then when I was 4 or 5. At his wake and funeral, I stood around with cops he'd worked with, our family and his friends, hearing funny stories about him being the man that I knew, a no BS Italian who didn't take crap from anyone about the things he believed in, even when that meant demotions or reprimands.

I told that story at his wake, knowing that it summed up his life well, that even after being left to die like that he didn't get scared, he got enraged, and was probably cursing as he hobbled up to the cab of that truck. Everyone agreed that it was just like him to do something like that when he was mad, but what shocked me is that when I told that story, no one else in the room had heard it before. His wife, children, other grandchildren, coworkers and best friend never knew about it, just because he wasn't the kind of guy to toot his own horn, and because he'd just do what he knew to be right, cursing all the way.

I'm glad I asked, and I'm glad that he told me, even if I was a young kid who shouldn't have learned so much about war at such a young age.

Damn I miss him, but it makes me laugh remembering how he was. Sorry, got a little carried away there.
 
I never tend to believe stories from people who claim numerous gunfights, secret squirrel covert work, veiled references to alphabet agencies, etc. I usually only believe the vets who say "I drove a truck" or something similar (no offence to the motor pool guys, but it doesn't sound very heroic compared to becoming an ace using only one mag in your 9mm). The guys I know who have "seen the elephant" will not talk much about it to strangers, and the ones that do talk to you later, it doesn't seem to matter about the "lie" they told you in the beginning - after all, I bet they did drive a truck at one point, and if they didn't I'll excuse the fib.
 
Sometimes they open up and let you know at unexpected times. One man I later found out was USAF CSAR, let on he was a vet when he told me NOT to get the Remington 870 and go with the Mossberg. Found out it was directly related to his service in Vietnam, but I already knew this gentlemen for well over a year when he did tell me.

I got to know another gentlemen who when pressed about his service in the USMC just said he usually worked with the State Department and left it at that. He sounded like he was a paper pusher but when we saw how well he shot with rifle AND pistol knew he was not a desk jockey as you say, and that he was adamant about having a Sig P226 as his first handgun.
 
When we are out with our Willys we get some amazing stories from Vets. We also had a great one when hubby was helping a Vet coming out of Tractor Supply. You never know or when you will get some amazing stories.[wink]
 
GSG....love your ability to express yourself in writing. Your story is absolutely great and a very clear and concise description of your Grandfather and his life. Well done.

I've run into several "wannabe's" over the years. Funny how when I got back from Vietnam in July of 1968 it was not real cool to be a Vietnam Vet or member of any military branch. Strange how that's changed over the years. What should be considered here is that only about 10% (plus or minus a few percentage points) who went to Vietnam saw combat. The rest were there in a support role. It seems from the numbers of people who claim to be Vietnam combat veterans, those percentages should be reversed. Most combat vets I know don't really care much about talking about it although I think most would be very willing to should they be asked. The late 60's and early 70's really tended to stigmatize many of us who now tend to be wary and on guard.
 
dustoff22 said:
GSG....love your ability to express yourself in writing. Your story is absolutely great and a very clear and concise description of your Grandfather and his life. Well done.

I've run into several "wannabe's" over the years. Funny how when I got back from Vietnam in July of 1968 it was not real cool to be a Vietnam Vet or member of any military branch. Strange how that's changed over the years. What should be considered here is that only about 10% (plus or minus a few percentage points) who went to Vietnam saw combat. The rest were there in a support role. It seems from the numbers of people who claim to be Vietnam combat veterans, those percentages should be reversed. Most combat vets I know don't really care much about talking about it although I think most would be very willing to should they be asked. The late 60's and early 70's really tended to stigmatize many of us who now tend to be wary and on guard.
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That had carried into the early 80's when I enlisted too. Kinda started to turn with Grenada and the Beirut bombing. When we traveled back stateside on leave right after Beirut we were treated better.[wink]
 
dustoff22 said:
GSG....love your ability to express yourself in writing. Your story is absolutely great and a very clear and concise description of your Grandfather and his life. Well done.

I've run into several "wannabe's" over the years. Funny how when I got back from Vietnam in July of 1968 it was not real cool to be a Vietnam Vet or member of any military branch. Strange how that's changed over the years. What should be considered here is that only about 10% (plus or minus a few percentage points) who went to Vietnam saw combat. The rest were there in a support role. It seems from the numbers of people who claim to be Vietnam combat veterans, those percentages should be reversed. Most combat vets I know don't really care much about talking about it although I think most would be very willing to should they be asked. The late 60's and early 70's really tended to stigmatize many of us who now tend to be wary and on guard.
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Right on Brother. I got home in August 69 and pretty much had to hide the fact I was a Nam Vet. I was told in job interviews, bluntly, that they didn't hire Vietnam Vets because they were physcotic and brought too many problems.

I had old friends that I hung with in high school call me baby killer and spit on me.

I was considered dangerous and scary.

Now, people want to be a "Vietnam Vet".

I remember being in a local watering spot lately and the young, cute women behind the bar said to me... "I appreciate what you did for us"... and that her father was a Vietnam Veteran.

I said to her.... where were you in 1968 when we needed you????!!! [thinking][crying]
 
depicts said:
Right on Brother. I got home in August 69 and pretty much had to hide the fact I was a Nam Vet. I was told in job interviews, bluntly, that they didn't hire Vietnam Vets because they were physcotic and brought too many problems.

I had old friends that I hung with in high school call me baby killer and spit on me.

I was considered dangerous and scary.

Now, people want to be a "Vietnam Vet".

I remember being in a local watering spot lately and the young, cute women behind the bar said to me... "I appreciate what you did for us"... and that her father was a Vietnam Veteran.

I said to her.... where were you in 1968 when we needed you????!!! [thinking][crying]
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Some of us were still in elementary school.[wink]
 
depicts said:
Right on Brother. I got home in August 69 and pretty much had to hide the fact I was a Nam Vet. I was told in job interviews, bluntly, that they didn't hire Vietnam Vets because they were physcotic and brought too many problems.

I had old friends that I hung with in high school call me baby killer and spit on me.

I was considered dangerous and scary.]
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I had a substitute teacher in High School who was a real hippy dude. This was in the mid 70s. He had long straight blonde hair, over the shoulders, and a wispy little moustache. He was a no-nukes guy. Major peacenik. One day he opened up a little bit and said he was a Viet Nam veteran. He said when he came home people spit on him and called him a baby killer. Even old friends, he said, didn't want to hang out with him any more. He didn't think that was very fair.
 
Yep, it was a real stigma. Depicts mentioned asking the young lady where she was in '68 when we needed her. Had to laugh, it reminded me of what my father said when I got home. I told him about going through San Francisco Int'l Airport, direct from Travis AFB and getting spit on. He said (my father was a Purple Heart recipient of WW1....I came along late in his life) "son, the silent majority are on your side and appreciate what you're doing". I said, "well, Dad, there weren't many of the silent majority at the airport as we went through the terminal". Bottom line is that I'm really happy that our young military folks are getting a little more respect because we, as a group, got none.
 
dustoff22 said:
Yep, it was a real stigma. Depicts mentioned asking the young lady where she was in '68 when we needed her. Had to laugh, it reminded me of what my father said when I got home. I told him about going through San Francisco Int'l Airport, direct from Travis AFB and getting spit on. He said (my father was a Purple Heart recipient of WW1....I came along late in his life) "son, the silent majority are on your side and appreciate what you're doing". I said, "well, Dad, there weren't many of the silent majority at the airport as we went through the terminal". Bottom line is that I'm really happy that our young military folks are getting a little more respect because we, as a group, got none.
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Also cause some of us growing up in that time period remember the treatment you guys got and also when some of us also joined the military and still had some of that treatment. I for one go out of my way to make sure these guys and gals know they are appreciated and to always Thank them for their service.[grin]
 
dustoff22 said:
Funny how when I got back from Vietnam in July of 1968 it was not real cool to be a Vietnam Vet or member of any military branch.
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depicts said:
Right on Brother. I got home in August 69 and pretty much had to hide the fact I was a Nam Vet. I was told in job interviews, bluntly, that they didn't hire Vietnam Vets because they were physcotic and brought too many problems.

I had old friends that I hung with in high school call me baby killer and spit on me.

I was considered dangerous and scary.
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This stuff absolutely drives me insane. I wasn't even born when it was taking place, but it's infuriating to me all the same.
 
My Father is a Vietnam Vet. Didn't see combat, he told me his time in the AF was pretty boring. For the longest time the only real stories he told about his life in the military was how he went into the AF with 2 quarters in his pocket, that he learned to play cribbage (and as such made extra money playing cutthroat), he was stationed in Okinawa and he was a Crew Chef. If people read my poem 'The Wall" its then I was able to piece together that he lost a few friends who were pilots. He would touch the names of two or three people who were all next to each other, then move to another panel and do the same. He was crying at the time.

In the mid 80's I would wear one of those POW/MIA bracelets to school. I was lucky in that Allen J. Avery remains were found and returned. His parents lived in Abington at the time and requested anyone wearing Allen's bracelet to mail it to them, they would like to have them buried with him. I sent mine in with a small letter expressing my condolences. I remember when it happened, they actually covered the procession from Logan on the news for a bit. IBEW actually changed their sign to reflect his coming home.

The link is to the report on how Airman Avery died, it was on a rescue mission, many are probably familiar with it since it was the basis for the movie "Bat 21"
 
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In Vietnam, to most fighting men, the man that fought
beside them, whether in the air or on the ground, was worth dying for. Each understood that the other would die for him if necessary. Thus, also considering the critical knowledge possessed by Col. Hambleton and some of the others, the seemingly uncanny means taken to recover Clark and Hambleton are not so unusual at all.

What defies logic and explaination, however, is that the government that sent these men to battle can distort or withold information to their families, and knowingly abandon hundreds of men known or strongly suspected to be in enemy hands.

Thousands of reports have been received by the U.S. Government indicating that Americans are still alive, in captivity in Southeast Asia. It has been 17 years for those who may have survived the 1972 Easter crashes and rescue attempts. How much longer must they wait for their country to bring "peace with honor" to them and bring them home?"
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Exactly so. The fact that we never really pursued lost POW's boggles my mind. Henry Kissinger even said that "letting them be" would be best for our country. I say to that: BS! And I suspect anyone who served in Vietnam would feel the same way.

The attitude of our government, as Vietnam came to a close, and even years afterwards, letting POW's rot, is one gigantic reason that I and most other Vietnam Veterans have such a jaundiced view of our government. The likes of the John Kerry's, the Robert McNamara's, the Joe Bangerts', the Henry Kissingers, to name a few, make my skin crawl.

Thanks for posting that Skald!!!!!!!
 
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dustoff22 said:
Exactly so. The fact that we never really pursued lost POW's boggles my mind. Henry Kissinger even said that "letting them be" would be best for our country. I say to that: BS! And I suspect anyone who served in Vietnam would feel the same way.

The attitude of our government, as Vietnam came to a close, and even years afterwards, letting POW's rot, is one gigantic reason that I and most other Vietnam Veterans have such a jaundiced view of our government. The likes of the John Kerry's, the Robert McNamara's, the Joe Bangerts', the Henry Kissingers, to name a few, make my skin crawl.

Thanks for posting that Skald!!!!!!!
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No thanks needed, I was proud to wear that bracelet, not because it seemed cool or anything, but as I mentioned earlier, my dad served, not in a combat way, another friends dad was a UH-1 Door Gunner, and a 3rd was literally on the plane awaiting takeoff to go do a tour when the news came in the war was pretty much over.
 
It's nothing compared to what the Nam vets dealt with, but even in the early 80's when I would wear my ROTC uniform around campus, sometimes idiots would make comments behind me as I walked by, including the "baby killer" comment. I took to turning on them, immediately getting in their face and calmly saying "What did you just say to me?" They always just backed down and acted embarrassed. What stupidity. I am glad that today, a vast majority of Americans feel strong support for our brothers and sisters fighting in far off lands, and treat them with the respect they deserve. I think this is true even for most of the people that don't agree with the politics of the wars - and this is how it should be.

MrsWildweasel said:
Also cause some of us growing up in that time period remember the treatment you guys got and also when some of us also joined the military and still had some of that treatment. I for one go out of my way to make sure these guys and gals know they are appreciated and to always Thank them for their service.[grin]
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and did you guy hear about the Iraq vet poser too ? He lied about being in iraq and seeing four marines killed by ied and stuff. Here is him. God people is too stupid to know if they are real or not ? Can you at least check his Military id and check it. Because every people in the military get a Militayr ID. XD
and this loser .. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EEJk7z8zQsI .. Fake Army ranger against War ... f*** him.. Why don't they just take the damn asvab and go to the boot camp and SOI to become once ?... Myself I couldn't join the marine corps because of my right ear hearing. But Can still join the army national guard soon :D. I was in the High school Marine JROTC and i love the US military since i joined it. But yeah anyway.. Maybe they just want free benifit without sacrificing their life.
 
yes, from now on i only believe peopel with Military Id if they don't. The next thing you can try to test maybe military knowledge. Especial the marine corps 11 general orders . hahaha Can't get away with that.
 
vietboy1st said:
yes, from now on i only believe peopel with Military Id if they don't. The next thing you can try to test maybe military knowledge. Especial the marine corps 11 general orders . hahaha Can't get away with that.
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Yeah that isn't going to work.[thinking] Once you get out if you still have time like IRR you'll have an ID, but otherwise only those that have retired.[thinking]
You fail.
 

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