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Vietnam poser (?)

G

GSG

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So the other day I was in the gun store when a guy came in to do a transfer on a Kimber 1911. He was wearing a Ferrari hat (warning sign? [laugh]), and he was pretty talkative. He started up a conversation about guns, and he said that his interest in guns started after he used guns in the service in Vietnam. That led to something like this:

Me (making conversation): "So what branch were you with?"

Him: "Army, I was in from 1963-65."

Me: "Oh, I heard that in the early years they had a lot of problems with the M-16's reliability."

Him: "Nope, I never heard anything like that. I wouldn't know, I carried a Thompson, I was actually doing work for the CIA."

He moved onto other subjects after that (like severely racist remarks about Obama [thinking]), but two things seemed odd to me. I've heard from more than a few vets about issues with the early M-16's, mostly gunpowder related IIRC, so it seemed odd that he'd never heard anything about it. Also the Thompson reference; one of my grandfathers used on in Korea, but I'd never heard of them being used in Vietnam.

This guy was a bit of a prick to begin with, but him throwing out the CIA comment seemed unusual to me, since the people I know who've been there done that don't advertise to strangers they just met.

I have many friends and family who're vets, but none from Vietnam, so I'm looking to find out some info to see if this guy is who he says he is.

Does anyone here know something on the subject that I could bring up to find out if he's FOS or not?
 
DukeNukem said:
I would have ended the conversation with that right there, and told him why. I hate oBama as much as anyone, but him being black has ZERO to do with it, I love the fact we have our first black President, just wish it wasnt him, and racists piss me off.
Click to expand...

Ding ! Ding ! Ding !

The CIA comment pushes it waaaaay over the top. [thinking]
 
GSG said:
So the other day I was in the gun store when a guy came in to do a transfer on a Kimber 1911. He was wearing a Ferrari hat (warning sign? [laugh]), and he was pretty talkative. He started up a conversation about guns, and he said that his interest in guns started after he used guns in the service in Vietnam. That led to something like this:

Me (making conversation): "So what branch were you with?"

Him: "Army, I was in from 1963-65."

Me: "Oh, I heard that in the early years they had a lot of problems with the M-16's reliability."

Him: "Nope, I never heard anything like that. I wouldn't know, I carried a Thompson, I was actually doing work for the CIA."

He moved onto other subjects after that (like severely racist remarks about Obama [thinking]), but two things seemed odd to me. I've heard from more than a few vets about issues with the early M-16's, mostly gunpowder related IIRC, so it seemed odd that he'd never heard anything about it. Also the Thompson reference; one of my grandfathers used on in Korea, but I'd never heard of them being used in Vietnam.

This guy was a bit of a prick to begin with, but him throwing out the CIA comment seemed unusual to me, since the people I know who've been there done that don't advertise to strangers they just met.

I have many friends and family who're vets, but none from Vietnam, so I'm looking to find out some info to see if this guy is who he says he is.

Does anyone here know something on the subject that I could bring up to find out if he's FOS or not?
Click to expand...



The CIA quote seems a bit over-the-top and a bit suspicious. However, the CIA was involved in SE Asia long before we got into Vietnam in a big way and many military units gave peripheral support to these CIA operations, so that may be the overstated basis of his claim.

As far as the Thompson claim, this could very well be true. Although I am not a Vietnam vet, I had some family and a bunch of buddies who are Vietnam vets (some with more than one tour of combat). I personally know two of them that did carry a Thompson in Vietnam and I know another that occasionally carried a BAR. The attitude seems to have been that if you could find ammo for it, you could carry it. BTW, in case it makes a difference, all of these guys were Marines. I don't know anyone who carried non-TO and E in other services.
 
Sounds fishy, anytime I'm speaking to somebody at random, for the first time, and covert operations is worked in the first two or three sentences my bullshit flag goes up. Eight times out of ten, maybe nine out of ten times -- it is not true. The real deals are usually not talkers. Not at random, anyway.

But since you mentioned that hat, he might be legit....[rofl]
 
n1oty said:
The CIA quote seems a bit over-the-top and a bit suspicious. However, the CIA was involved in SE Asia long before we got into Vietnam in a big way and many military units gave peripheral support to these CIA operations, so that may be the overstated basis of his claim.

As far as the Thompson claim, this could very well be true. Although I am not a Vietnam vet, I had some family and a bunch of buddies who are Vietnam vets (some with more than one tour of combat). I personally know two of them that did carry a Thompson in Vietnam and I know another that occasionally carried a BAR. The attitude seems to have been that if you could find ammo for it, you could carry it. BTW, in case it makes a difference, all of these guys were Marines. I don't know anyone who carried non-TO and E in other services.
Click to expand...

^this one. It's not a clear case of BS as told. Not saying he wasn't lying, but we had built up a very large number of non-coms in vietnam by '65 starting soon after the french left. Also, the M16 was not issued until early '65 (maybe late '64). They actually issued to select south vietnamese units development versions of the xm-16 much earlier than that because they were actually fighting the north. We weren't and they needed guaranteed testing. So it holds that someone under CIA employ may not have participated in that testing.

Also, keep in mind that just because someone was employed by "the CIA", doesn't mean they were some highly trained james bond type operator. The CIA has over time employed some real characters through their various front companies. He may have worked for one of these.

Or he was prior military and was acting as an advisor to south vietnamese troops. He could have worked for just about any branch/agency if he was doing that work. But there he would have had significant combat experience or a large amount of training and had more to talk about than just time spent in vietnam.
 
terraformer said:
^this one. It's not a clear case of BS as told. Not saying he wasn't lying, but we had built up a very large number of non-coms in vietnam by '65 starting soon after the french left. Also, the M16 was not issued until early '65 (maybe late '64). They actually issued to select south vietnamese units development versions of the xm-16 much earlier than that because they were actually fighting the north. We weren't and they needed guaranteed testing. So it holds that someone under CIA employ may not have participated in that testing.

Also, keep in mind that just because someone was employed by "the CIA", doesn't mean they were some highly trained james bond type operator. The CIA has over time employed some real characters through their various front companies. He may have worked for one of these.

Or he was prior military and was acting as an advisor to south vietnamese troops. He could have worked for just about any branch/agency if he was doing that work. But there he would have had significant combat experience or a large amount of training and had more to talk about than just time spent in vietnam.
Click to expand...

Or he could have been plain CUCKOO!
 
GaryO said:
Or he could have been plain CUCKOO!
Click to expand...

This covered that very real possibility.
Not saying he wasn't lying,
Click to expand...

Usually these dweebs talk themselves into a hole and the lies become apparent but the info in the OP isn't enough beyond just gut feeling. GSG didn't stick around long enough, understandably.
 
I have an elderly uncle who was in the OSS in WWII. FYI he has never told me this, only his wife. And he refuses to discuss the details, saying that he was told not to tell anyone. A few years back when I suggested that these details were sixty years old he just looked at me as to say "so what".

My point... the real deals of this world often don't talk about it. They gave their word to remain silent and keep it.

FYI my uncle ended up becoming a well regarded scientist and researcher. He is a kind, humble, brilliant old guy, and one would never guess at his wartime activities.
 
richc said:
I have an elderly uncle who was in the OSS in WWII. FYI he has never told me this, only his wife. And he refuses to discuss the details, saying that he was told not to tell anyone. A few years back when I suggested that these details were sixty years old he just looked at me as to say "so what".

My point... the real deals of this world often don't talk about it. They gave their word to remain silent and keep it.

FYI my uncle ended up becoming a well regarded scientist and researcher. He is a kind, humble, brilliant old guy, and one would never guess at his wartime activities.
Click to expand...

+1. I good friend of mine's MOTHER was in the OSS in WWII - you'd never know it either to meet her. She has no idea what her mother did for the OSS as she's never talked about it - and she's 86.
 
several of the ASA folks worked very close with the CIA at that time. But the ones that where there, aren't bragging about it at gun stores.
 
I was friends with Carlos Hathcock, the legendary Marine Sniper from Vietnam. Before he died we spoke at length about the original A1's. But, he never used it as he was usually behind some glass in combat. So my point is, IF, you were truly in theater when that rifle was rolled out, AND you are a real deal, then you must have something better to say then what Mr. Ferrari said. Maybe because he was so deep in the bush he only knew abut his trusty Thompson. But over the years I've learned the more they talk, the less they probably actually did. Just my thoughts, no science here, just gut reaction. [smile]
 
I got to Vietnam in July of 1967 and around Dec. was told to walk over to a Private Contracting Company that had a small hooch on base and help them with a demoltion problem. I was told by my Lt. to go and his only comment on the whole thing was, be careful their a bunch of old drunks.

The CIA had all sorts of strange companies working for them and these guys worked for one called RMK BRJ Construction from Sf. Ca. The Lt. was right though, there were 3 unshaven dirty guys there in their late 50's, early 60's and the hooch was full of whiskey bottles, cigar butts and old WWII guns.

All they wanted was advice on how to get rid of some old 8oz. sticks of dynamite that were seating in a box sweating. I just took them with me over to our demo well, were We disposed of things like that.

Over all I don't know why they were there or what they were suppose to be doing but I was not impressed.

RMK BRJ is still in Vietnam and has some thing to do with Halliburton.
 
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GSG said:
his interest in guns started after he used guns in the service in Vietnam. That led to something like this:

Him: "Nope, I never heard anything like that. I wouldn't know, I carried a Thompson, I was actually doing work for the CIA."

He moved onto other subjects after that (like severely racist remarks about Obama [thinking]), but two things seemed odd to me.
Click to expand...

THE BS FLAG WAS FLYING HIGH

#1 Vietnam Vets are not ones to just open up to anyone about serving in Vietnam. Its like ripping open an old wound for some.

#2 You work for the CIA you dont run around bragging about it. Or mention it to some random stranger that you just met. Your debriefed on what you can say and not say to random strangers and its highly advised not to run around mentioning what you or what type of work you did.

#3 Regardless of skin color.. or your personal beliefs Obama is the president and being an American you support him regardless .. You can disagree with policies, attitudes and or Ideas but when the Shite hits the fan your either with him or against him and the latter will not be tolerated. United you stand .. divided you become worthless
 
Sounds like a typical poser. OTOH, I know that a good number of people carried Thompsons in Vietnam, though both the special ops and CIA people I've known tended to preferred the Carl Gustav M/45 or the S&W M76 copy. And, yes, the CIA certainly had a real mixed bag of people working for them, a lot of whom I'd classify as truly certifiable.

Ken
 
I wouldn't imagine anyone saying point-blank that they were or are in the CIA unless they are identifying themselves before arresting you or questioning you. And then they might not even divulge that much.
I would think that someone who was actually in the CIA would have given an ambigous answer and would have been smart enough to evade the question without you realizing that they had evaded the question.
 
My uncle Kenny was in Nam and has the Bronze Star for pulling a guy out of a burning vehicle, he showed me real pictures of "hamburger hill" from a distance it is shaped like a small hamburger thats how it got its name, he also has a Purple Heart for getting a piece of shrapnel in his arm during an explosion nearby. i can tell form the Bullshitters to the rem vets- i met quite a few of them they dont "brag"
 
So did you say hi to Grendel for us? [laugh]

GSG said:
So the other day I was in the gun store when a guy came in to do a transfer on a Kimber 1911. He was wearing a Ferrari hat (warning sign? [laugh]), and he was pretty talkative. He started up a conversation about guns, and he said that his interest in guns started after he used guns in the service in Vietnam. That led to something like this:

Me (making conversation): "So what branch were you with?"

Him: "Army, I was in from 1963-65."

Me: "Oh, I heard that in the early years they had a lot of problems with the M-16's reliability."

Him: "Nope, I never heard anything like that. I wouldn't know, I carried a Thompson, I was actually doing work for the CIA."

He moved onto other subjects after that (like severely racist remarks about Obama [thinking]), but two things seemed odd to me. I've heard from more than a few vets about issues with the early M-16's, mostly gunpowder related IIRC, so it seemed odd that he'd never heard anything about it. Also the Thompson reference; one of my grandfathers used on in Korea, but I'd never heard of them being used in Vietnam.

This guy was a bit of a prick to begin with, but him throwing out the CIA comment seemed unusual to me, since the people I know who've been there done that don't advertise to strangers they just met.

I have many friends and family who're vets, but none from Vietnam, so I'm looking to find out some info to see if this guy is who he says he is.

Does anyone here know something on the subject that I could bring up to find out if he's FOS or not?
Click to expand...
 
TXDMERC said:
My uncle Kenny was in Nam and has the Bronze Star for pulling a guy out of a burning vehicle, he showed me real pictures of "hamburger hill" from a distance it is shaped like a small hamburger thats how it got its name, he also has a Purple Heart for getting a piece of shrapnel in his arm during an explosion nearby. i can tell form the Bullshitters to the rem vets- i met quite a few of them they dont "brag"
Click to expand...

TXDMERC, no offense to your Uncle but that is not why the action was called Hamburger Hill.

Maybe you looked at the wrong picture.

American soldiers called it Hamburger Hill because of the number of lives ground up in the 1969 battle on its ridges. (most GI's never called it Hamburger hill. It was Dong Ap Bia, or Hill 937.)

I didn't see any hamburgers.
 
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Was it Stephen Segal? He got caught pulling this crap too lol. CIA my ass. These folks just don't talk about this stuff to strangers like that.
 
depicts said:
TXDMERC, no offense to your Uncle but that is not why the action was called Hamburger Hill.

Maybe you looked at the wrong picture.

American soldiers called it Hamburger Hill because of the number of lives ground up in the 1969 battle on its ridges.

I didn't see any hamburgers.
Click to expand...

Whats even sadder there is a movie about battle at hamburger hill and even I knew it was about a battle and none of my rels were in Vietnam and Im too young to remember Vietnam

Sorry for the Mix Up I thought Clint Eastwood was in it.
 
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I went through basic training in February 1966 at Fort Polk, LA, and if memory serves correctly (questionable I know) we used M-14's through basic. As for the Thompson, I carried one for awhile in Vietnam until I realized that lugging it around was more trouble than it was worth. Then again, like a fool I loaded it with all .45 tracers...being that I wanted to see where the rounds went. Not thinking of course it would be easy for the bad guy to back-azimuth the round to me.

As for the CIA comment, to my way of thinking that's pure BS coming from a wannabe.
 
So the general consensus seems to be that his story was plausible although unlikely? Maybe I should pump him for info and take notes if I see him again, and call him out if I see any BS...?

TheWookie said:
Sounds fishy, anytime I'm speaking to somebody at random, for the first time, and covert operations is worked in the first two or three sentences my bullshit flag goes up.
Click to expand...

My thoughts exactly.

terraformer said:
Or he was prior military and was acting as an advisor to south vietnamese troops. He could have worked for just about any branch/agency if he was doing that work. But there he would have had significant combat experience or a large amount of training and had more to talk about than just time spent in vietnam.
Click to expand...

This never came up, but I got the impression that he would've said something like that if he had, or even if he knew about it.

DukeNukem said:
I would have ended the conversation with that right there, and told him why. I hate oBama as much as anyone, but him being black has ZERO to do with it, I love the fact we have our first black President, just wish it wasnt him, and racists piss me off.
Click to expand...

I have 5 men who I consider true friends, who I'd trust with anything, for anything, who've never let me down. 3 of them are black, and when he said some of the things he did I cringed. I found him offensive, but I didn't hang around to correct him on his racist remarks because I was on my way to a gunshow, and because I have yet to meet a passionate racist who will respond with anything other than more hate when they're confronted.
 
depicts said:
TXDMERC, no offense to your Uncle but that is not why the action was called Hamburger Hill.

Maybe you looked at the wrong picture.

American soldiers called it Hamburger Hill because of the number of lives ground up in the 1969 battle on its ridges. (most GI's never called it Hamburger hill. It was Dong Ap Bia, or Hill 937.)

I didn't see any hamburgers.
Click to expand...

Funny, I think I seen you there in 1969, in fact I think this was the vehicle you were driving.

Hamburger-Harley.jpg
 
I have 5 men who I consider true friends, who I'd trust with anything, for anything, who've never let me down. 3 of them are black, and when he said some of the things he did I cringed. I found him offensive, but I didn't hang around to correct him on his racist remarks because I was on my way to a gunshow, and because I have yet to meet a passionate racist who will respond with anything other than more hate when they're confronted.
Click to expand...

True, I just meant I would have said something and walked away, I dont know enough about Vietnam Veterans or the CIA to know if he was full of crap but I do know enough about a racist to spot one.
 
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