TX: More arrests for NOT breaking the law

[KBCraig]

Still think Texas is free?

Background details: under Texas law, a handgun is defined as a firearm, and a firearm does not include a black powder gun, anything made pre-1899, or a replica that doesn't fire fixed ammunition (centerfire or rimfire).

These guys were carrying black powder cap and ball revolvers, which are not firearms under the law. They got arrested anyway.

Also FYI: it's perfectly legal to carry a concealed handgun on the grounds of the state capital (where this took place), and even inside the capital building itself.

Before the inevitable complaints about the language and shouting and hostile response, I have to point out: the only people using violence here were the troopers. And it's a good thing for them, because the math was definitely not in their favor.

 

[hunt4riches]

So help me out. Suppose an LEO with a raging hard-on wants to charge you charged with a felony solely to make you become a prohibited person... If a blatantly bogus felony charge gets dropped, and even if the whole ordeal is expunged from your record, would this still be a disqualifier when doing a 4473? I know the internet is biased towards cops now, but I personally have known and interacted with over 30 of them and have only ever met 1 who was a legitimate douche. That is actually a whole order of magnitude better than the average group of random people of whom I run into these days. Heck, at work the douche-ratio (lets call it the douchio) is at least 5 out of 30.

 

[Rob Boudrie]

If a blatantly bogus felony charge gets dropped, and even if the whole ordeal is expunged from your record, would this still be a disqualifier when doing a 4473?

No.

Also FYI: it's perfectly legal to carry a concealed handgun on the grounds of the state capital (where this took place), and even inside the capital building itself.

There was a news report a while back about people who have frequent business at the TX capitol who are not gun owners obtaining a TX CCW permit so they could enter via the express line without metal detectors.

 

[Finalygotabeltfed]

Lawsuit and payoff to follow.

 

[mac1911]

I still have to accept my grand mothers advice.....do not trust the police. Why is it that when the police clrealy know the law, still do this shit and follow through with the arrest?

 

[Finalygotabeltfed]

I still have to accept my grand mothers advice.....do not trust the police. Why is it that when the police clrealy know the law, still do this shit and follow through with the arrest?

EGO
And lack of personal liability in uniform in many places.

 

[Mr_Irritating]

Devils advocate; Is it possible, with the millions of laws on the books that the police sometimes have a hard time with certain situations like this being that the legality of the issue stems from word games within the definition of the firearm?

 

[ThePreBanMan]

Devils advocate; Is it possible, with the millions of laws on the books that the police sometimes have a hard time with certain situations like this being that the legality of the issue stems from word games within the definition of the firearm?

Ok... I can appreciate that... But an arrest first and ask questions later is not what they should be doing... If they have a question - they should call it in from the privacy of their cruiser.

 

[WallHack]

Devils advocate; Is it possible, with the millions of laws on the books that the police sometimes have a hard time with certain situations like this being that the legality of the issue stems from word games within the definition of the firearm?

"We don't know every law so we're arresting you because we *think* you've done something illegal."

Hhhhhyep, sounds fine to me.

 

[KBCraig]

Devils advocate; Is it possible, with the millions of laws on the books that the police sometimes have a hard time with certain situations like this being that the legality of the issue stems from word games within the definition of the firearm?

"We have to arrest you until we find out if you're legal" is never valid.

And I don't know if anyone caught the audio in the first (longer) video, but the summons they attempted to issue was for criminal trespass, not possession of anything. This brings up the question of their authority to exclude someone from public space that is wide open, unfenced, accessible to the public 24/7. If that's valid just because this part of the sidewalk is on the capitol grounds, then why isn't it valid because that part of the sidewalk is just a city street?

If that's valid, then they could follow him right down the sidewalk and issue a new citation every time he failed to disappear from the sidewalk when told.

 

[Mr_Irritating]

Just sayin', not trying to defend them.

 

[Dadstoys]

Ok... I can appreciate that... But an arrest first and ask questions later is not what they should be doing... If they have a question - they should call it in from the privacy of their cruiser.

^
This
Would cut down on false arrest lawsuits., Wouldn't it?

 

[ntomsw]

Hopefully Texas burns to the ground, after Massachusetts. There aren't many free states left.

 

[MA_Shooter]

You're not sure if someone is doing something illegal so arrest them 'just to be safe' and mess up their lives? I don't buy it. Find someone who can determine definitively if a crime has committed and act accordingly. Even if the cops act inappropriately, they don't have any personal responsibility wrt payouts pursuant to a lawsuit - hence it will happen again. This is true for anyone who can use the public coffers to cover their expenses.

 

[Chet0729]

I don't think the ******* yelling obscenities in the background was helping their cause any. I was hoping someone would punch him in the mouth just to shut him up.

 

[In God We Trust]

These confrontations are steadily getting uglier. People are justifiably fed up with the police state.

 

[mark056]

If you have doubts about the law or possible violation of the law, get all the information, research the law, and summons the person to the court if there is a violation of law. There are very few laws that "MANDATE AN ARREST".

You are absolutely correct Joe, summons is the way to go when there is ambiguity on the part of the investigating officer. It is unrealistic to expect all LEOs to know all the statutes anymore than a lawyer would and equally unrealistic for a supervisor to know as well. This is why the summons is another way to deal with the issue if there is a question.

Now some of the "usual suspects" are going to be upset with this and make all kinds of claims and say I am soft on the police, but the simple fact is that the system provides a remedy to this situation. The LEOs involved in this situation used very poor judgement but not availing themselves of this option.

Also let's get over this "free state" idea. There are no absolutist free states. Some states are simply more free than others, but there are moonbats, anti-2A and repressive law enforcement everywhere. Texas, especially Austin is not paradise it just has better firearms laws than Massachusetts, but then so do most other states for that matter.

 

[In God We Trust]

Once you have an interaction with the court as a criminal defendant, Even if the case is dismissed as a request of the DA, Nol Prosse, or found not guilty, You will always have a criminal record. The only way to get it expunged is by an order of the court.

A good friend of mine got jumped by the neighborhood bully at the bus stop back in the early 80's. My friend Wound up breaking the kids nose with a lucky shot and was charged with felony assault because the bully's mom was banging a town cop.

All charges were dismissed in court once the judge got the truth out of the bully. He still had a hard time getting a LTC in a green town over it. He is 40 now and it still haunts him despite being dismissed. He got the LTC, but had to write a letter to the chief explaining what happened.

 

[ntomsw]

A good friend of mine got jumped by the neighborhood bully at the bus stop back in the early 80's. Wound up breaking the kids nose with a lucky shot and was charged with felony assault because the kids mom was banging a town cop.

All charges were dismissed in court once the judge got the truth out of the bully. He still had a hard time getting a LTC in a green town over it. He is 40 now and it still haunts him despite being dismissed. He got the LTC, but had to write a letter to the chief explaining what happened.

Sounds like he deserved it. Well worth it IMHO.

 

[falcon123]

Hopefully Texas burns to the ground, after Massachusetts. There aren't many free states left.

This is an example of the tail wagging the dog. Austin has been occupied by the left and are using police state tactics to make the rest comply. I lived in Texas for many years and I don't think that true Texans are going to stand for this much longer. The govt is instigating this shit to further an agenda hoping the patriots would throw the first punch thereby giving them a reason to full retard on the locals. This makes my blood boil. Would love to see the crowd overpowering those JBTs and handcuffing them together then let the games begin. Where are the good Texas politicians like Cruz on this outrageous violation of their citizens?

 

[mark056]

This is an example of the tail wagging the dog. Austin has been occupied by the left and are using police state tactics to make the rest comply. I lived in Texas for many years and I don't think that true Texans are going to stand for this much longer. The govt is instigating this shit to further an agenda hoping the patriots would throw the first punch thereby giving them a reason to full retard on the locals. This makes my blood boil. Would love to see the crowd overpowering those JBTs and handcuffing them together then let the games begin. Where are the good Texas politicians like Cruz on this outrageous violation of their citizens?

Texas is not one monolithic state. There are many factions, some ideological, some racial and ethnic, some geographical, some economic. If Texas were an independent country (which we all know it was once) it would be larger than a lot of European states. There is no more one Texas, than there is one of any other kind of state. Where did the master architect of today's social welfare state, Lyndon Baines Johnson, hail from? Why Texas, of course.. we conveniently forget history when it fails to suit our purposes. Where did pro-Communist Lee Harvey Oswald live? Texas.. Where was one of the most left leaning members of congress come from back in the day, Barbara Jordan? Texas, Who was one of the biggest boosters of the Democratic Party social agenda, Ann Richards...what state was she governor of? Texas...and and the list goes on and on. What public university is the equal of Harvard, Yale and Standford in its liberalism and almost in its academic reputation but especially takes the lead with those institution in political correctness? The University of Texas...I rest my case.

Politicians like Cruz are doing what politicians are always doing...and your point?

 

[falcon123]

Texas is not one monolithic state. There are many factions, some ideological, some racial and ethnic, some geographical, some economic. If Texas were an independent country (which we all know it was once) it would be larger than a lot of European states. There is no more one Texas, than there is one of any other kind of state. Where did the master architect of today's social welfare state, Lyndon Baines Johnson, hail from? Why Texas, of course.. we conveniently forget history when it fails to suit our purposes. Where did pro-Communist Lee Harvey Oswald live? Texas.. Where was one of the most left leaning members of congress come from back in the day, Barbara Jordan? Texas, Who was one of the biggest boosters of the Democratic Party social agenda, Ann Richards...what state was she governor of? Texas...and and the list goes on and on. What public university is the equal of Harvard, Yale and Standford in its liberalism and almost in its academic reputation but especially takes the lead with those institution in political correctness? The University of Texas...I rest my case.

Politicians like Cruz are doing what politicians are always doing...and your point?

Just because there are commies in Texas does not mean that the rest of the population is. Just look at NY. The state is controlled by NYC pretty much. Cruz happens to be a real patriot willing to fight against the establishment of both parties. I know he's got his hands full but surely there are many other like him in Texas politics that could pick the side of the protesters and push back against the JBTs and their abuse of their constituents.

 

[frenchman]

You guys keep believing that the majority of them will uphold the constitution. It's all crap. Most of them are not on our side, period. They will not bite the hand that feeds them. they will ​follow orders. Same goes for the military. We're on our own, end of story.

 

[Nick Fury]

You guys keep believing that the majority of them will uphold the constitution. It's all crap. Most of them are not on our side, period. They will not bite the hand that feeds them. they will ​follow orders. Same goes for the military. We're on our own, end of story.

I believe this man knows what he is talking about...

 

[ntomsw]

You guys keep believing that the majority of them will uphold the constitution. It's all crap. Most of them are not on our side, period. They will not bite the hand that feeds them. they will ​follow orders. Same goes for the military. We're on our own, end of story.

Yup.

 

[Dadstoys]

You guys keep believing that the majority of them will uphold the constitution. It's all crap. Most of them are not on our side, period. They will not bite the hand that feeds them. they will ​follow orders. Same goes for the military. We're on our own, end of story.

I believe your right.
Some won't and some will.
I wonder if they understand what happens if things go past the tipping point and the "subjects" stop playing by the rules.

 

[MA_Shooter]

I believe your right.
Some won't and some will.
I wonder if they understand what happens if things go past the tipping point and the "subjects" stop playing by the rules.

Perhaps that's the reason for heavily armored vehicles and FEMA camps.

 

[mikeyp]

^
This
Would cut down on false arrest lawsuits., Wouldn't it?

After I was arrested for driving on a suspended license that wasn't suspended, a cop told me there's no such thing as false arrest. Because the arrest was caused by bad info

 

[hunt4riches]

Once you have an interaction with the court as a criminal defendant, Even if the case is dismissed as a request of the DA, Nol Prosse, or found not guilty, You will always have a criminal record. The only way to get it expunged is by an order of the court.

Thanks. I know felony followed by not guilty makes life very hard for gunnies, but was wondering if expunged really and truly does what it's supposed to.

 

[mark056]

Thanks. I know felony followed by not guilty makes life very hard for gunnies, but was wondering if expunged really and truly does what it's supposed to.

Not in Massachusetts.