Two masked home invaders are met by armed resident n MA today.

Knuckle Dragger said:
It's far too early to make any conclusions about this incident. The police, in their rush to figure things out and the press in the rush to get a story out, frequently get the facts wrong initially. There's no way to be certain at this point if the parties knew each other, if the shot parties was shot in or out of the house, etc.

The police will always take the shooter into custody because they HAVE to figure out exactly what happened and what exactly was the relationship, if any, between the individuals. Whether or not the shoot had a license is irrelevant to claims of self defense. You don't give up your right to self defense merely by possessing or carrying a gun without a license. Your ability to claim self defense IS greatly compromised if you shot someone in conjunction with your participation in a criminal enterprise.

People legitimately exercising their right of self-defense in Boston have largely been fine and this guy probably will be IF he was in fact defending himself in his home. However, if the police find that he had a criminal relationship with the two alleged home invaders he might have more trouble.

We just have to wait and see.
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I tend to agree with most of this: there is the issue of whether the person had an LTC (if he carried the firearm outside of his apartment; no LTC required to "carry" a weapon inside one's abode); there is possibly a question of how the firearm was acquired (if no FID or LTC); and there are always the questions that go to propriety of self-defense (particularly where the homeowner pursued someone outside his abode and in a locale where the neighborhood ethos is not to cooperate with the police).

However, I part company on the notion that, as part of an investigation, someone may be taken "into custody." In Massachusetts, taking someone in custody means effecting an arrest. An arrest can be made only one of two ways: pursuant to a warrant, or without a warrant based on probable cause to believe that a felony (or certain statutory misdemeanors) has been committed. Whenever a police officer makes an arrest without a warrant, he must "return" the person arrested into court promptly and must "charge" him (i.e., make application for a criminal complaint).

The bottom line is: we do know enough about what happened here to engage in a lengthy debate -- or even a non-lengthy one.
 
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Riverside said:
Here's an update. The dead guy has been identified. The homeowner has been taken into custody, in other words arrested. No further details right now as to why. Updated: Another media outlet is reporting that the homeowner has not been charged with anything. It will be interesting to watch this investigation unfold.
http://www.wcvb.com/news/local/metr...8/24016746/-/birtb2/-/index.html#mid=17740588
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Charges are public information right? If he has not been charged one would have to imagine he is not being detained.
 
dennism said:
Charges are public information right? If he has not been charged one would have to imagine he is not being detained.
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Yes they are. Two different media are reporting two different sets of information. WCVB wrote today that the homeowner was taken into custody while Boston.Com reports that the homeowner has not been charged.
bpdnews.com didn't offer any additional information.
The Suffolk County DA along with BPD will investigate thoroughly.
 
no changes, Im watching this one - no word on whether or not he lawfully owned the gun or where they are in the inquest. I fully expect the DA to be an assclown and ruin this guy.
 
AngelKing said:
no changes, Im watching this one - no word on whether or not he lawfully owned the gun or where they are in the inquest. I fully expect the DA to be an assclown and ruin this guy.
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All they need to do is drag it out 6 months or so before deciding not to prosecute. That's what they did to Langone (MGH doctor assault case) and destroyed him.

Being officially "in limbo" is worse financially and psychologically than being charged . . . and that is the way MA rolls . . . it works well to discourage self-help. "Shelter in place and die" should be the official MA Motto. [angry]
 
Actually, it encourages something else - not calling the state for help, ever. In this situation it was unavoidable, but why call the police when they're going to further victimize the victim?

LenS said:
All they need to do is drag it out 6 months or so before deciding not to prosecute. That's what they did to Langone (MGH doctor assault case) and destroyed him.

Being officially "in limbo" is worse financially and psychologically than being charged . . . and that is the way MA rolls . . . it works well to discourage self-help. "Shelter in place and die" should be the official MA Motto. [angry]
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However, I part company on the notion that, as part of an investigation, someone may be taken "into custody." In Massachusetts, taking someone in custody means effecting an arrest. An arrest can be made only one of two ways: pursuant to a warrant, or without a warrant based on probable cause to believe that a felony (or certain statutory misdemeanors) has been committed. Whenever a police officer makes an arrest without a warrant, he must "return" the person arrested into court promptly and must "charge" him (i.e., make application for a criminal complaint).
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Taking someone into custody immediately is a powerful tool to take advantage of the "first hour" and get the person to talk without an attorney. The person will be faced with a choice - go into the conference room with the nice detective who just wants to hear his/her side of the story, or go to a holding cell. Most people who are not schooled in how the system works will think "I acted properly and legally, the police will understand that, if I talk to them I will go home and not spend thousands on an attorney" and march right into the interrogation, er, I mean interview, room. If the police are using the classic Reed and Inbau method, the room will be void of any reminders of the custodial nature of the situation, the interrogating officer will be friendly, minimize the moral seriousness of the situation, be very understanding of why the subject did what he did, and may even offer a reassuring hand on the shoulder.

Rarely, (very rarely), the interview will help the subject (see George Zimmerman). More often than not, the first few thousand in legal fees will be spent attempting to have the results of the interrogation ruled inadmissible.

On the other hand, if the police did not take the person into custody, the chances (s)he would respond with "On advice of counsel, I will not speak to you" or "I will speak to you only with counsel present" when asked to talk go way, way up.

I know one detective in another state who has the following response to "I want an attorney" - "That is your right, but if you get an attorney, the first thing he will do it tell you not to talk to me. If you want me to hear your side of the story, now is the time". He tells me that suspects often respond with "let's talk".
 
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Not talking without the advice of counsel.

While your offer seems very nice, I'd still like to await instructions from my attorney.

No, I really don't mind waiting in a cell for a couple of hours if it means Im not waiting in a cell for a couple of years, but again, thanks for the offer and the stale coffee, Detective.
 
AngelKing said:
Actually, it encourages something else - not calling the state for help, ever. In this situation it was unavoidable, but why call the police when they're going to further victimize the victim?
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yup....It's kind of hard to imagine why, if you shot someone in your own house, you'd tell anyone about it.

In this case, the guy ran out onto the stoop and died, neighbors probably heard, saw something. But in a case where the homeowner knows that no one saw anything, you'd think he'd be better off cleaning up the mess himself and going on with his life.
 
Dead guy identified as Jordan Chinapoo, 20, of Roxbury.

I go by what most BPD officers tell me "90% of shootings in Boston are gang related." There is no shortage of gangs in that area. There are also many households in Boston that possess a firearm who have decided not to worry the BPD with all that paperwork.....

There is a famous case from over a decade ago where five members of the "Esmond Street Crew" were arrested on federal racketeering charges for having a member of the Franklin Park Giants. This allowed them to seek the death penalty.

Fedz in the 'hood.

Ironically I used to ride my bicycle in this neighborhood on the way back and forth to the tennis facility in Franklin Park. I never saw any excitement at all: Blue Hill Ave was much more entertaining.
 
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LenS said:
All they need to do is drag it out 6 months or so before deciding not to prosecute. That's what they did to Langone (MGH doctor assault case) and destroyed him.
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It did? I missed that update. What happened to him?

Rob Boudrie said:
Taking someone into custody immediately is a powerful tool to take advantage of the "first hour" and get the person to talk without an attorney.
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All the more reason to go the hospital for a nice calming dose of lorazepam

CTpatriot said:
this guy needs to be rearmed and back in his house. He is a real "public servant".
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I think that's not clear yet. Maybe he was the supplier for the two guys that came to the house. We don't know yet.

Riverside said:
Yes they are. Two different media are reporting two different sets of information. WCVB wrote today that the homeowner was taken into custody while Boston.Com reports that the homeowner has not been charged.
bpdnews.com didn't offer any additional information.
The Suffolk County DA along with BPD will investigate thoroughly.
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Being taken into custody and being charged are two very different things. If you shoot someone even under the most obviously justifiable circumstances you're going to be taken into custody whilst the police sort things out.

garandman said:
Dead guy identified as Jordan Chinapoo, 20, of Roxbury.
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That's a funny last name.
 
LenS said:
All they need to do is drag it out 6 months or so before deciding not to prosecute. That's what they did to Langone (MGH doctor assault case) and destroyed him.
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Really? Shooting happened in 2009 I believe and in 2012 a Paul Langone from Reading, MA also graduated from the state police academy. Seems like they rewarded him in a way (security guard to state trooper), assuming it's the same guy..

I get what you're saying about self help in MA in general though.
 
yes, but given that the deceased was 18, when is the Morningstar Baptist Church going to start its crap and demanding he be Zimmermanned? you know its a matter of time.

Riverside said:
I'm thinking the homeowner at least had a valid LTC. Fairly certain that the lack of an LTC would have been made public by now.
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Trackrat said:
Really? Shooting happened in 2009 I believe and in 2012 a Paul Langone from Reading, MA also graduated from the state police academy. Seems like they rewarded him in a way (security guard to state trooper), assuming it's the same guy..

I get what you're saying about self help in MA in general though.
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Paul Langone was described as an off duty "Special Police Officer" when the shooting happened. I don't know what is attached to the title. I do know it took 6 months for the Suffolk County DA to exonerate Paul of any wrong doing. Langone was already on track to become a Law Officer. I don't think the shooting at MGH helped or hurt him in the long run. I do know that waiting 6 months for a determination by the DA can be a painfully long and anxious time for the guy who saved the MD's life.
Best regards.
 
Riverside said:
Paul Langone was described as an off duty "Special Police Officer" when the shooting happened. I don't know what is attached to the title. I do know it took 6 months for the Suffolk County DA to exonerate Paul of any wrong doing. Langone was already on track to become a Law Officer. I don't think the shooting at MGH helped or hurt him in the long run. I do know that waiting 6 months for a determination by the DA can be a painfully long and anxious time for the guy who saved the MD's life.
Best regards.
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Special police officer seems to be a security guard who can carry but also make arrests. Interesting that out also appears he was rejected by the academy when he applied prior to the shooting.

The more details I find on this the more interesting it is how it all went down after the fact. Still not sure how it destroyed him though. Not clear in all the stories online. I guess those details would be more inside knowledge than what I can find.
 
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Trackrat said:
Special police officer seems to be a security guard who can carry but also make arrests. Interesting that out also appears he was rejected by the academy when he applied prior to the shooting.

The more details I find on this the more interesting it is how it all went down after the fact. Still not sure how it destroyed him though. Not clear in all the stories online. I guess those details would be more inside knowledge than what I can find.
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Perhaps Lens will return and elaborate. My take is he meant it destroyed him for 6 months of his life. That's a long time to wait for a ruling as to whether or not your self defense shooting of a raging maniac who was actively trying to slaughter, and came very close to succeeding, the MD who was without any means to protect herself, was justifiable.
Best regards.
 

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