Very true. Of course the American Revolutionaries were regarded as terrorists too. I'm sure the mainland British thought that the colonists were petulant little bitches that needed to be taken to the woodshed.
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- Thread starter Synyster
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Very true. Of course the American Revolutionaries were regarded as terrorists too. I'm sure the mainland British thought that the colonists were petulant little bitches that needed to be taken to the woodshed.
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I find the way you think laughable at best. So, you really think that we, us, Americans would be completely safe and sound in our beds if were never in Iraq or Afghanistan.
Ok, but I beg to differ.
http://www.cdi.org/terrorism/chronology.html
http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/Pages/AmericanAttacks.htm
http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0001454.html
http://www.fbi.gov/stats-services/publications
Why doesn't the right to keep and bear arms extend to all people? Of course it should, irrespective of nationality. Self-preservation is a human right.
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No, they were not.
The American government invaded Afghanistan to bring the perpetrators of 9/11 to justice. We've done that. Time to wrap up. Nothing more to do there. It's not called the "Graveyard of Empires" for nothing.
Iraq was just a needless war of choice that sent thousands of Americans and Iraqis prematurely to their graves.
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Please, go back and read post #51. Specifically, the part where I agreed that we should get out. No need to start another argument.
Then I think we're on the same page. Cheers.
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Cheers.
45collector
NES Member
Well ****. Now that it's a love fest can I cheers too?
I'm really confused how you two (supra, collector) think we should get out, yet support killing random people as long as we're there. Exactly how are those two ideas at all compatible? If SWAT kicks in your door and finds nothing, should they be allowed to shoot whoever they want while they're there anyway just because one of you may commit a crime in the future? Because I'm pretty sure that's exactly what you just defended.
How does posting up a bunch of terror attacks against americans prove that our having gone into Iraq or Afghanistan accomplished anything?
OMG. So much fail here its hard to know where to begin.
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45collector
NES Member
Looks like he's trying to compare our troops following orders by killing armed combatants to American police kicking down doors and shooting unarmed people for no reason.
I think he's off his meds.
I think he's off his meds.
I highlighted it above for you Eric, since it appears you didn't read all their posts. It seems we have one guy who thinks we need to have another few crusades with Christians slaughtering Muslims and another who can't justify us being there, but hey since we are why not make a couple movies of people killing each other so others can laugh on the other side of the hemisphere in between updating their Facebook pages.
I'm sure niether of those two viewpoints have anything to do with why a lot of Muslims hate us
![[rolleyes]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/042.gif "Roll Eyes [rolleyes]")
45collector
NES Member
OK genius, then what's your plan to squash terrorism since the U.S. military is doing it wrong?
I highlighted it above for you Eric, since it appears you didn't read all their posts. It seems we have one guy who thinks we need to have another few crusades with Christians slaughtering Muslims and another who can't justify us being there, but hey since we are why not make a couple movies of people killing each other so others can laugh on the other side of the hemisphere in between updating their Facebook pages.
I'm sure niether of those two viewpoints have anything to do with why a lot of Muslims hate us
Yup, definitely off his meds. Guess he's a fan of 9/11 type events and forgets who attacked who.
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I don't think he's stating that the military is doing it wrong - I think he's saying that the military should no longer be doing it at all. Frankly, I agree - time to end this and sacrifice no more lives in that shithole. Bin Laden is dead - let the savages murder one another - they've been at it for eons. We have no business spreading freedom, establishing republics and nation building. The best way to stop the spread of terrorism, is to MYOFB and allow these scumbags the freedom to murder each other wholesale...
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You don't need to understand anything. I signed the blank check, went there, did my job and served my country. My reasons are mine alone. I'm really confused how you believe that the group of armed combatants in the video with ak-47's, a PKM and a few RPG's were random people. WTF were they doing? Were they providing late night overwatch for farmers harvesting their crops? Comparing a police force's rules of engagement to the militarys' is just retarded. How naive of you. Again, you don't know what you're talking about.
Nothing. It proves contrary to what he said about how he thinks Americans would be safe for the rest of their lives if we left Iraq and Afghanistan. Did you even read the argument?
I highlighted it above for you Eric, since it appears you didn't read all their posts. It seems we have one guy who thinks we need to have another few crusades with Christians slaughtering Muslims and another who can't justify us being there, but hey since we are why not make a couple movies of people killing each other so others can laugh on the other side of the hemisphere in between updating their Facebook pages.
I'm sure niether of those two viewpoints have anything to do with why a lot of Muslims hate us
Why do muslims hate us? Please, tell me.
Listen, yes, I think we should pull our troops out, claim victory and call it a victim of history - BUT we still need to maintain that we will wipe the floor with any country or religious group who even thinks about planning an attack against us. You seem to have forgotten that 2,996 American men, women and children were killed in less than an hour. Who gives a **** if we got bin laden. Just because he was the "leader" you think it should have ended? You think that only Afghan and Iraqi extremist's want to kill Americans? Believe it, or not most of the Iraqi's and Afghan's want us to stay. It's the tribal warlords, their group of religious fools and the corrupt gov't officials with ties to the tribal factions who want us to leave.
Did you feel the same way when we dropped A-bombs on Hiroshima and Nagasaki? Did you think that the Japanese were not an "enemy" because they said they would not attack, but instead use mis-information and lies to hit us so easily? News Flash: The koran preaches the same thing. Do what ever is necessary, in this case, to get people to convert. It is not considered a crime against the religion if you have to lie and twist your words when dealing with infidels. I can't believe most of you think this is going to magically stop if we mind our own business. No one has felt the full wrath of the U.S. military since and hope to hell it doesn't come to that again.
Also, I'm getting tired of watching be-headings, IED's blowing people up and firing line executions by these same people who you seem to be apologizing. I've seen enough of it in real life. Why not post a few videos? Welcome to the information age.
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Yes, at least someone noticed that little detail. Also, you can just walk into a house, or hide in VERY thick vegitation and not move until sunrise
![[wink]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/002.gif "Wink [wink]")
In Afghanistan, the male of a "household", village elder et cetera are allowed to have ONE AK47 inside their "home" or compound. They even have permits issued by the gov't for approval. They CANNOT walk freely around with them unless they are police, military or a tribal group who does not accept the gov't (read taliban supporters); however, they can walk around with hunting rifles and shotguns. They do actually hunt in the fields.
Yea, I read every word of it, and I don't remember him saying we would be safe for the rest of our lives if we left Iraq and Afghanistan because he didn't. He simply said our presence in Iraq and Afghanistan is unneeded and I would agree with him.
Safety is an illusion. There are far more murders in the US every year than terrorists kill. To be afraid of Afganees coming here and killing you is an asinine way to view the world.
Do you think us being there for 11 years killing them increases or decreases the likelyhood of them attacking us again? My bet is we're making it worse, not better. Bin Laden wasn't even found there. What exactly do you think we're accomplishing?
If you were really concerned about stopping terrorists you'd be talking about invading Saudi Arabia since that's where most terrorists are born and raised.
Do you think us being there for 11 years killing them increases or decreases the likelyhood of them attacking us again? My bet is we're making it worse, not better. Bin Laden wasn't even found there. What exactly do you think we're accomplishing?
If you were really concerned about stopping terrorists you'd be talking about invading Saudi Arabia since that's where most terrorists are born and raised.
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Hmm, so we need to be concerned with where the bad guys are born not plan, train, and execute from? I guess if I was stupid this would make sense. I guess we got it wrong attacking Berlin in world war 2 since Hilter wasn't born there.
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Nobody in this thread is opposed to killing bad guys. But we could stay in Afghanistan indefinitely and never run out of people to kill. There will always be people who hate us and we increase the population of such people by meddling in their lives. If there is solid intelligence of a threat from specific individuals or camps then action is understandable and prudent. But just being there in general will generate threats. Imagine the situation reversed. If Afghan helicopters were circling our neighborhoods and Afghan troops were here on the ground I would like to think many of us would be shooting back. If they had the technological advantage then we would be the little white shapes on the ground.
9/11 was a tragedy blown far out of proportion. The American public, being soft and entitled, demand safety and security that simply can't be guaranteed. That fear and expectation has been exploited in the Iraqi and Afghan conflicts. We have killed far too many people, spent way too much money, and created a vast amount of ill-will in the process. It looks worse for every year that goes by. As we stand in line with our shoes in our hands waiting to scanned, and as our troops risk their lives killing people who will never threaten us here at home, America looks to the world like a fearful and irrational nation.
Cheering on some high-tech killing should be beneath us. I saw that video and had the same reaction as some earlier posters. First I imagined being underneath that thermal system someday when the fear and entitlement of this nation reaches its logical end. Then I wondered how we were accomplishing anything by killing those people.
9/11 was a tragedy blown far out of proportion. The American public, being soft and entitled, demand safety and security that simply can't be guaranteed. That fear and expectation has been exploited in the Iraqi and Afghan conflicts. We have killed far too many people, spent way too much money, and created a vast amount of ill-will in the process. It looks worse for every year that goes by. As we stand in line with our shoes in our hands waiting to scanned, and as our troops risk their lives killing people who will never threaten us here at home, America looks to the world like a fearful and irrational nation.
Cheering on some high-tech killing should be beneath us. I saw that video and had the same reaction as some earlier posters. First I imagined being underneath that thermal system someday when the fear and entitlement of this nation reaches its logical end. Then I wondered how we were accomplishing anything by killing those people.
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Very well said.
"Neutralizing the threat" is often heard on NES. That's all you need to do in a defensive situation. Now that the threat from Al-Qaeda has been largely if not totally eliminated, time to pack up camp.
I watched the video in its entirety. I think most humans have an innate morbid curiosity, and I'm no exception. So I watched it. But celebrating death is just a foreign concept for me, and I suppose most other decent human beings. It's more than mildly disturbing to hear the juvenile giddiness when one of the targets, legitimately or otherwise, is blown to absolute pieces (the pieces that are illuminating in the FLIR feed after the target is hit).
If that doesn't disturb the most hardened warmonger, I'm sure when those 30mm bullets start raining on you and your little AR-15, you'll be singing a different tune.
Out of curiosity - How do you frame this with the American Revolution?
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