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Trump gun control, update post 529 Trump No Longer Backing “Red Flag” Law, Background Check Changes

It's that old security vs liberty debate.

Many people (sheep, mostly) want a secure (or "safe") society, first and foremost. The path of least resistance to a safe society is zero weapons, so that's their default setting. But that's not a free society, and people like me prefer to trade some safety for a bit more liberty.

Mental health complicates that, in the sense that a lot of people truly are disordered and really do benefit from treatment, including drugs. Others don't. I don't expect psychiatrists to be mind-reading supermen and know that in advance, which is why my interim solution is what 10th advocates above: civil defense, taught and reinforced at all levels.

That's not a perfect fix either, but giving the maximum amount of people the option to defend themselves strikes me as the only answer that blends safety with liberty. Plenty of people in mental health treatment are probably able to be perfectly safe with guns, including carry, if they're responding to their treatment properly. But, again, there's never going to be a way to be certain. 100% certainty is what antis think is possible, and it ain't.

Allow me to bring up my communist education again.

We had a civil defense from the first grade all the way to the end of the university. The curriculum covered guns, maintenance of guns, ammo, grenades, defense against chemical and biological weapons, survival skills, laws and regulations, home economics. Every citizen knew how to use rifles, revolvers and grenades. People had guns at home but all ranges were under the paramilitary or military organizations. You could apply for a hunting license, and there were stores which did sell hunting rifles and a hunting gear. All other weapons were not sold but those were given to you if you were a member of a paramilitary organization, people's militia member, policeman or member of the military. There were no shootings! The main reason why there were no shootings were these main 5 reasons:
1. Mental institutions worked.
2. No drugs for general public, not even pain killers. All drugs were classified as chemical weapons and no doctor could get hold of them.
3. Guns were not feared and were present. Potential attacker could never know where weapons may be.
4. Sentences were very high. As a result of that, crime was relatively low. 5-7 years for shoplifting, 10 years for stealing from your work, 30 years or a death sentence for a murder. All prisoners worked 8-10 hours shifts everyday.
5. Borders were closed tight. You could not escape from the inside of the country.

I am not advocating that we should copy communist structure but I believe people here are under the impression that communists were not allowing guns at all. In reality they were all about guns and gun education. That, I believe, is a key!

Our existing education sucks! It sucks because graduates do not know basics. They can't understand how medical insurances work, how investing works, how guns work, how cars work......You name it and they do not know it. They also do not know world geography, world history and their rights. Well, don't you think this is a problem?
 
Ohio shooter interested in violent ideology: FBI | DW | 06.08.2019
Several friends of the man told US news outlets he had a history of troubling attitudes and behavior towards women.

A long-time acquaintance of the shooter told The New York Times "he was kind of hateful to women because they didn't want to date him."

The Dayton Daily News reported the shooter had been suspended from his high school for drawing up a "hit list" of girls.

Demoy Howell, a friend of the shooter, told the newspaper that he was "always a bit of an oddball."

"He had a dark sense of humor — jokes about people dying," he said. "He would wear all black. I remember sensing a dark energy around him.

"I think this is less of a hate crime and more of an 'I hate everybody' crime," Howell said.
The man was reportedly a member of "pornogrind" heavy metal band Menstrual Munchies, with lyrics that revolved around sexual violence. Vice News interviewed a former bandmate of the shooter, who said he had performed live vocals for the band, which released albums such as "6 Ways of Female Butchery."

The pornogrind scene has been described as misogynistic and male-dominated.

His bandmate denied the songs were serious, saying he was shocked at the violence.

A woman who claimed to have briefly dated him earlier this year wrote online that he had "dark thoughts," including about wanting to hurt people. Adelia Johnson, 24, said they met in a college psychology class and bonded over dealing with mental illness.

She claimed that the shooter had shown her a video of the Pittsburgh synagogue shooting on their first date. She said he had "uncontrollable urges" that she called "red flags," which led to her breaking up with him in May.
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One of his posts:
soc.jpg
 
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Our existing education sucks! It sucks because graduates do not know basics. They can't understand how medical insurances work, how investing works, how guns work, how cars work......You name it and they do not know it. They also do not know world geography, world history and their rights. Well, don't you think this is a problem?

Our existing education system, if you ask its stakeholders, doesn't exist to do any of those things. It exists to get Little Johnny into college.

You're preaching to the choir.
 
You pretty much nailed the what happens part. The speed with which panic buying happened after Sandy Hook was mind blowing. The next morning my local gun shop was standing room only. All AR's were gone along with all the ammo. All 9mm, .45acp. and .308 ammo were gone as well as every double stack handgun and 1911's. I was crazy. There wasn't one guy there that I knew. It was out of town guys panic buying.

Deja vu!:

In El Paso, scared Hispanic Americans rush to buy guns
Gun stores elsewhere in El Paso also reported being busy. At the Cabela’s on Desert Boulevard, an employee who didn’t give his name said sales on Saturday and Sunday were very high, many of them first-time purchases. “We were also seeing people who’d previously owned guns and gotten rid of them,” he said, adding that it was right after payday, which is usually hectic anyway. On Sunday an employee at Gun Central said they were too busy to comment; calls on Monday weren’t answered.

At Gun Central, people waited in line amid displays of red Maga shirts and a sign that said, “Jesus Has Risen.” Among them were Denzel Oliver and his girlfriend Christabelle Guzman. On Saturday they had been shopping at the Foot Locker next to Walmart, and as they exited the parking lot, a fleet of police cars raced past. “We were shopping while people were being killed,” Guzman said. After they got home and turned on the news, her boyfriend suggested they look for a gun for her. Turns out they were thinking the same thing.

“I just want to give us both some peace of mind,” said Oliver, 29, who served in the army and owns his own weapons. “I always tell her that El Paso is a bubble. This kind of thing happens elsewhere in the country, but not here. But now, we need to be better prepared.”

“Knowing is better than not knowing,” Guzman adds.

When asked if buying guns seems a bit extreme, given one random act, Oliver shakes his head. “It’s random,” he says, “but it’s going to change this community forever.” He points to the crowds as a pop-pop-pop rings out from the range like a soundtrack for a new reality. “Just look,” he says, “it already has.”
 
Republicans have seemingly already caved on red flag laws, doesn't affect us as we're already under them, but it's a signal that the Republican party is not the pro gun shield we think it is. If what happened to suppressors wasn't enough of a sign for us, Red Flag laws is a blinking neon sign.

It's been clear to me that the Republican party is the "Do Nothing" party. We saw them sit on their hands with that long promised Obamacare repeal in 2017.

What troubles me tho is when the Do Nothing party that doesn't want to change any status quo is coming out saying they want to change the status quo with guns and what they want to change isn't legality of certain guns, but giving local and state police the authority to TAKE guns from owners for an unexplained criteria of symptoms that make someone an "extreme risk" and are planning on using those guns for some violent act.

This being a federal law, there's no way for the federal gov't to enforce it as there is no federal police force... yet. That may change under a Democrat looking to build their own SA and were a national Red Flag law to be on the books, what's stopping them from declaring everyone who didn't vote for the Democrat president an "extreme risk" and taking their guns? After all, certain alphabet agencies are saying that believing in conspiracy theories is a "terrorist threat" now, so the groundwork is already being laid as to what beliefs and speech is being classified as terrorism.

Hell, in other countries calling a tranny a man is a crime, so not using the right pronoun on social media could land you on a Red Flag List.

So, the more I think about what a national Red Flag law would look like, the more disturbed I am by it. I'd be much more content with an age limit (I'm thinking 25 years old) on buying semi auto rifles as it doesn't affect the majority of the country and it might get struck down by SCOTUS than I am some vague Red Flag law.
 
...I'd be much more content with an age limit (I'm thinking 25 years old) on buying semi auto rifles as it doesn't affect the majority of the country and it might get struck down by SCOTUS than I am some vague Red Flag law.

Feel free to leave the country and move to Europe. You don't understand the RKBA or how our courts work. Your logic is spot on with what the antis propose: we'll trust an 18-year old with a M240 but heaven forbid we let him buy a SKS or a Garand or a Browning BAR hunting rifle. Do you not see the hypocrisy of that, considering how many US boys were issued Garands from the 30's up until the 70's in reserve units? And then got M14s and M16s and M4s? And I do mean boys, some kids literally out of high school, some didn't even finish. Edit: shit, have you been in Mass so long that you're totally clueless that the AR is literally America's most popular rifle? The perfect choice for 12-year old girls who go deer hunting?

Further, a vague law is more likely to be struck down by a court than a clear law. There's a whole constitutional argument dedicated to it:

Void for vagueness

People like you are not friends of the RKBA movement. Ben Franklin said it best:

Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.

Benjamin Franklin - Wikiquote

I'll give you that Franklin's quote was focused on the independence and self-governance of the legislature in the face of arbitrary executive power, but come on man, grow a backbone.
 
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The “federal ERPO” isn’t really a federal ERPO. It’s grants to states to make state ERPOs easier to do. No need for a federal police force, or any other kind of federal enforcement. They’ll get states to do their dirty work, and dangle money to them. Sorta like health care exchanges.
 
The “federal ERPO” isn’t really a federal ERPO. It’s grants to states to make state ERPOs easier to do. No need for a federal police force, or any other kind of federal enforcement. They’ll get states to do their dirty work, and dangle money to them. Sorta like health care exchanges.

The Feds have two ways to legislate: use their constitutional legislative powers, like the Commerce Clause, or heavily incentivize the states through grants and other goodies. The Feds tried gun control laws (gun free zones, to be specific) based on the Commerce Clause and lost. Edit: older gun laws are probably based on the Commerce Clause, like NFA34. However, there is also an imprecise boundary as to how much Congress can incentivize the states, and the boundary is the commandeering doctrine.

United States v. Lopez - Wikipedia

Commandeering - Wikipedia
 
The “federal ERPO” isn’t really a federal ERPO. It’s grants to states to make state ERPOs easier to do. No need for a federal police force, or any other kind of federal enforcement. They’ll get states to do their dirty work, and dangle money to them. Sorta like health care exchanges.

And education.
 
...and a host of other things.

Beware of federal officials praising state or local regulations. They’re not really praising state or local regulations.
 
Republicans have seemingly already caved on red flag laws, doesn't affect us as we're already under them, but it's a signal that the Republican party is not the pro gun shield we think it is. If what happened to suppressors wasn't enough of a sign for us, Red Flag laws is a blinking neon sign.

It's been clear to me that the Republican party is the "Do Nothing" party. We saw them sit on their hands with that long promised Obamacare repeal in 2017.

What troubles me tho is when the Do Nothing party that doesn't want to change any status quo is coming out saying they want to change the status quo with guns and what they want to change isn't legality of certain guns, but giving local and state police the authority to TAKE guns from owners for an unexplained criteria of symptoms that make someone an "extreme risk" and are planning on using those guns for some violent act.

This being a federal law, there's no way for the federal gov't to enforce it as there is no federal police force... yet. That may change under a Democrat looking to build their own SA and were a national Red Flag law to be on the books, what's stopping them from declaring everyone who didn't vote for the Democrat president an "extreme risk" and taking their guns? After all, certain alphabet agencies are saying that believing in conspiracy theories is a "terrorist threat" now, so the groundwork is already being laid as to what beliefs and speech is being classified as terrorism.

Hell, in other countries calling a tranny a man is a crime, so not using the right pronoun on social media could land you on a Red Flag List.

So, the more I think about what a national Red Flag law would look like, the more disturbed I am by it. I'd be much more content with an age limit (I'm thinking 25 years old) on buying semi auto rifles as it doesn't affect the majority of the country and it might get struck down by SCOTUS than I am some vague Red Flag law.

Where is this urge "to do something" coming from? When your house is burglarized, for example, should you ask for tougher laws impacting manufacturers of doors and also press politicians to increase driving age to 25? Stop playing liberal games with them!

Playing games because we have tried to be nice and understanding got us into MA gulag! We are allowed to work and pay taxes. Everything else will be decided by some raging liberal just because we are well marinated and ready for the grill anyway.

These shootings are used by liberals to show angry white men as dangerous terrorists. Only white men want weapons of mass destruction, only white men play violent video games and are anti-social or even mental! Definition of a terrorism was quietly expanded to include single moron responding to some tweets on the internet.

And now you come to play with your proposal to screw your own children in return for leniency from those who have told you that you are a felon in waiting!

I keep repeating here, with zero impact, that the age of being nice has ended. That age gave us Obama, gulag in MA, screwed up healthcare, screwed up deficit and open borders. If you will continue in that direction without having guts to say:"NO!", you will be an easy target. That will be all.

We, gun owners, had nothing to do with those 2 shootings! Nothing!

So, stop collaborating on punishments!

Liberals do not waste a second:
All of the extremist killings in the US in 2018 had links to right-wing extremism, according to new report
While Washington stalls, activists see optimism in gun control efforts at the state level - The Boston Globe

Instead of playing games with them it is time for us to unite and say NO! Say no to stupid proposals which will only expose more people to nuts, say no to cooperation with communists, say no to stupid ideas like green new deal, say no to commie education which is boring your kids now, ...........There is plenty of work in front of us if you want to save this country.

If you are not planning on saving it, continue being nice, and watch them to label you a white terrorist just for being on this forum!
 
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Heading to El Paso, Trump nixes assault weapons ban

WASHINGTON — U.S. President Donald Trump dismissed legislation to ban assault rifles as politically unfeasible on Wednesday as he prepared to visit the sites of two deadly mass shootings that shocked the country and drew criticism of his anti-immigrant rhetoric.

As he left the White House, Trump said he wanted to strengthen background checks for gun purchases and make sure mentally ill people did not carry guns. He predicted congressional support for those two measures but not for banning assault rifles.

"I can tell you that there is no political appetite for that at this moment," Trump told reporters at the White House. "But I will certainly bring that up ... There is a great appetite, and I mean a very strong appetite, for background checks."...
 
BUT WE ALREADY HAVE BACKGROUND CHECKS!!!!!!

This brings back memories from the refugee camp in which American officials were conducting political asylum interviews in 1984.

They were asking mujahedeen fighters fresh from the war with Soviets the following questions:

1. Did you ever commit a terrorist act?
2. Did ever participate in actions which would bring down a government?
3. Did you ever worked with explosives?

All the answers from all mujahedeens were always: NO!

[mg]
 
Where is this urge "to do something" coming from? When your house is burglarized, for example, should you ask for tougher laws impacting manufacturers of doors and also press politicians to increase driving age to 25? Stop playing liberal games with them!

Playing games because we have tried to be nice and understanding got us into MA gulag! We are allowed to work and pay taxes. Everything else will be decided by some raging liberal just because we are well marinated and ready for the grill anyway.

These shootings are used by liberals to show angry white men as dangerous terrorists. Only white men want weapons of mass destruction, only white men play violent video games and are anti-social or even mental! Definition of a terrorism was quietly expanded to include single moron responding to some tweets on the internet.

And now you come to play with your proposal to screw your own children in return for leniency from those who have told you that you are a felon in waiting!

I keep repeating here, with zero impact, that the age of being nice has ended. That age gave us Obama, gulag in MA, screwed up healthcare, screwed up deficit and open borders. If you will continue in that direction without having guts to say:"NO!", you will be an easy target. That will be all.

We, gun owners, had nothing to do with those 2 shootings! Nothing!

So, stop collaborating on punishments!

Liberals do not waste a second:
All of the extremist killings in the US in 2018 had links to right-wing extremism, according to new report
While Washington stalls, activists see optimism in gun control efforts at the state level - The Boston Globe

Instead of playing games with them it is time for us to unite and say NO! Say no to stupid proposals which will only expose more people to nuts, say no to cooperation with communists, say no to stupid ideas like green new deal, say no to commie education which is boring your kids now, ...........There is plenty of work in front of us if you want to save this country.

If you are not planning on saving it, continue being nice, and watch them to label you a white terrorist just for being on this forum!
You're right, we didn't have anything to do with any shooting the past 20 years, but there's a pattern with who these shooters are and, apart from Las Vegas, they're all young people.

We're a minority in the country, most of the population doesn't go on gun forums and talk about guns, are fanatics on guns, go shooting more than once a month, etc. They're quick to jump to conclusions that are based on emotional responses and not logical ones. Us coming out of the woodwork saying "NO!" to any proposal isn't going to work, but we aren't going to say yes to extreme anti gun laws like complete gun bans either.

As hard a pill this is going to sound, there is a middle ground.

It sucks, but gun laws inevitably impact 99.9% of those who aren't going to commit a crime. Not making a law that restricts people under 25 from owning semi auto rifles just gives the other side more ammunition when they inevitably take power and when they take that power, they will pass laws that go beyond age restrictions, they will pass gun bans.

For all the posturing and grandeur of drawing a line and saying "not another inch!" sounds, it didn't do jack shit with bump stocks. We should have had a law go through the REPUBLICAN controlled congress that made bump stocks and NFA item, but removed suppressors from the NFA. But because every gun control hill is one we must die on, that didn't happen and we got ABSOLUTELY NOTHING.

That's the problem with the pro 2A side: we don't protect the downside, we don't try to limit our losses. It's always an All or Nothing approach and more often than not we come away with the nothing.

I doubt any of us are under 25 here, I don't see why anybody here cares if some kid who's mostly pre-occupied with where his next orgasm is going to come from isn't able to buy an AR until her turns 25. Still a lot of other guns those 18-24 can buy for self defense and also an age restriction on semi auto rifles would basically stop any potential full gun ban to those under 21 from being touted by Democrats.
 
You're right, we didn't have anything to do with any shooting the past 20 years, but there's a pattern with who these shooters are and, apart from Las Vegas, they're all young people.

We're a minority in the country, most of the population doesn't go on gun forums and talk about guns, are fanatics on guns, go shooting more than once a month, etc. They're quick to jump to conclusions that are based on emotional responses and not logical ones. Us coming out of the woodwork saying "NO!" to any proposal isn't going to work, but we aren't going to say yes to extreme anti gun laws like complete gun bans either.

As hard a pill this is going to sound, there is a middle ground.

It sucks, but gun laws inevitably impact 99.9% of those who aren't going to commit a crime. Not making a law that restricts people under 25 from owning semi auto rifles just gives the other side more ammunition when they inevitably take power and when they take that power, they will pass laws that go beyond age restrictions, they will pass gun bans.

For all the posturing and grandeur of drawing a line and saying "not another inch!" sounds, it didn't do jack shit with bump stocks. We should have had a law go through the REPUBLICAN controlled congress that made bump stocks and NFA item, but removed suppressors from the NFA. But because every gun control hill is one we must die on, that didn't happen and we got ABSOLUTELY NOTHING.

That's the problem with the pro 2A side: we don't protect the downside, we don't try to limit our losses. It's always an All or Nothing approach and more often than not we come away with the nothing.

I doubt any of us are under 25 here, I don't see why anybody here cares if some kid who's mostly pre-occupied with where his next orgasm is going to come from isn't able to buy an AR until her turns 25. Still a lot of other guns those 18-24 can buy for self defense and also an age restriction on semi auto rifles would basically stop any potential full gun ban to those under 21 from being touted by Democrats.
NO.

We've been compromising since 1934.
 
I doubt any of us are under 25 here, I don't see why anybody here cares if some kid who's mostly pre-occupied with where his next orgasm is going to come from isn't able to buy an AR until her turns 25.

Then you don’t understand the word “rights.”

Rights exist for all. Not just for “any of us here.” I’m troubled that anyone posting on NES has such a poor understanding, frankly.
 
NO.

We've been compromising since 1934.
Compromise? Every gun bill since 1934 hasn't been much of a compromise, it's been an outright theft! We got nothing from the NFA, GCA, or AWB, and FOPA closed the registry and most states around us don't ignore FOPA anyway.

Yeah, we've really got a great winning streak going at the federal level.

You either give up a sliver of the pie or you lose a huge chunk of it. Your choice and with how inflexible most here are, you're the ones who are going to be the reason we lose all semi automatic guns within 10 years.

If there's any indication, canary in the coalmine, of what's coming because the 2A side is so rigid, it's bump stocks.
 
You're right, we didn't have anything to do with any shooting the past 20 years, but there's a pattern with who these shooters are and, apart from Las Vegas, they're all young people.

We're a minority in the country, most of the population doesn't go on gun forums and talk about guns, are fanatics on guns, go shooting more than once a month, etc. They're quick to jump to conclusions that are based on emotional responses and not logical ones. Us coming out of the woodwork saying "NO!" to any proposal isn't going to work, but we aren't going to say yes to extreme anti gun laws like complete gun bans either.

As hard a pill this is going to sound, there is a middle ground.

It sucks, but gun laws inevitably impact 99.9% of those who aren't going to commit a crime. Not making a law that restricts people under 25 from owning semi auto rifles just gives the other side more ammunition when they inevitably take power and when they take that power, they will pass laws that go beyond age restrictions, they will pass gun bans.

For all the posturing and grandeur of drawing a line and saying "not another inch!" sounds, it didn't do jack shit with bump stocks. We should have had a law go through the REPUBLICAN controlled congress that made bump stocks and NFA item, but removed suppressors from the NFA. But because every gun control hill is one we must die on, that didn't happen and we got ABSOLUTELY NOTHING.

That's the problem with the pro 2A side: we don't protect the downside, we don't try to limit our losses. It's always an All or Nothing approach and more often than not we come away with the nothing.

I doubt any of us are under 25 here, I don't see why anybody here cares if some kid who's mostly pre-occupied with where his next orgasm is going to come from isn't able to buy an AR until her turns 25. Still a lot of other guns those 18-24 can buy for self defense and also an age restriction on semi auto rifles would basically stop any potential full gun ban to those under 21 from being touted by Democrats.

I am sorry......THANK YOU FOR THE FLOWERS but we ain't dead yet!

I am old but I am working with many young people who keep asking me why we are not doing anything but playing games with COEXISTING.

When you have commies in da hauz and Antifa on the streets you can't compromise on anything.
 
Young people will not put up with us. We have done nothing when our education crumbled, we have done nothing when our healthcare went to drain, we left them with video games and silly teachers while we were busy getting rid of our rights. We are offering them 2 parties, both of which are useless.........Our lives are done. We will be fine. It is about them now.
 
Whatever comes of this, it will just be the next ineffective ratchet click... the next treating the symptom instead of the disease.

We don't have a gun problem. We don't even (to a degree) have a mental health problem perse', though I'd entertain GMO's, hormones and the like in our food supply having a correlation to the myriad of alphabet disorders diagnosed in our children, usually leading to medicating them.

There have been guns in America since forever, and there has always been "that kid" everyone knew was trouble(d). With isolated exception, the two rarely crossed. So what's changed? The internet. The internet and it's ability to shrink the world as we know it. The internet and its ability to put loners in contact with other loners or with groups that artificially empower them over distance.

Pre-WWW that kid is separated from other troubled minds by raw distance. Pre-WWW he stays a loner, maybe bullied, but largely introvert and meek. That kid usually never mustered the raw courage to confront someone about getting the wrong change let alone threaten bodily harm... he lived at home blaming the world. Things either got better or worse with time, life of crime, tortured animals, or got married and held down a job but was generally just the guy up the street that was a dick. Of course there have always been occasions of the perfect storm where they'd find each other, or seek out secret societies, or instances of pure evil. Mass murders are hardly new.

Post-WWW that kid can find anonymity and acceptance, he's a keyboard commando and finds the courage to speak his mind, because after all the people on the internet aren't really people necessarily...they're just screen names, opinions and ideas buffered and not really physically dangerous...and so you can act big without fear of physical retaliation. The keyboard and the text message have stripped the human out of most our interactions. There is no eye contact, no inflection, no tone or physical feedback. It's antiseptic and emotionally distant. Add violent video games and that kids hate has the ability to outgrow normal social taboos... like killing a stranger, because he no longer relates to others on a sensory level.

That kid now finds himself able to communicate without fear, blaming the world for his issues. He's no longer bound by the limits of moms basement, and eventually finds his way into some webpage, some forum, some discussion with like hundreds or thousands of like-minded (pick your poison: race, politics, gender, religion, it doesn't matter...it only need be the hate-dejour that has suppressed him the most). There he sits, a victim stewing in forums and building the courage. Call it brainwashing or whatever, but it's empowering. There are others out there either feeling the same or egging him on, and like it or not there is strength in numbers, even if that kid is still just one. Eventually the stewing reaches a boiling point, and the gun is just low hanging fruit...and "the cause" is bigger than his pathetic existence. There is nothing more dangerous than the human mind. If a person has the vacancy to kill another outside self defense, they will find a way. There truly is very little to defend against someone willing to die.

1990, the first webserver and WWW...1993 Mosaic. 1994 Netscape, 1995 AOL comes into it's own with 3 million users. 1996 Harris and Klebold have an AOL webpage that evolves into information about guns, explosives and hate. They are no longer isolated and have the ability to project their hate over distance and for others to reciprocate. To egg them on. 1998 Harris is on antidepressants. 1999, Columbine..largely recognized as the beginning of an era. A competition for copycats. These once isolated loners now stew in the anonymity of the WWW, building false courage and every once in a while one of these little pressure cookers pops. No longer a kid and not quite a man can be a frustrating time.

So go ahead and institute bans, background checks, limitations whatever for the rest of us. Ineffective ratchet clicks. Mental health issues no matter the cause are rarely an issue in isolation in it's many forms. Take that kid and soak him in hate and pump up his false bravado and his despair, the rest writes itself. It'll be a knife, a bomb, a truck... The trick is always determining how far you can push the innocent in the name of putting the genie back in the bottle.

One man's opinion.
 
You're right, we didn't have anything to do with any shooting the past 20 years, but there's a pattern with who these shooters are and, apart from Las Vegas, they're all young people.

We're a minority in the country, most of the population doesn't go on gun forums and talk about guns, are fanatics on guns, go shooting more than once a month, etc. They're quick to jump to conclusions that are based on emotional responses and not logical ones. Us coming out of the woodwork saying "NO!" to any proposal isn't going to work, but we aren't going to say yes to extreme anti gun laws like complete gun bans either.

As hard a pill this is going to sound, there is a middle ground.

It sucks, but gun laws inevitably impact 99.9% of those who aren't going to commit a crime. Not making a law that restricts people under 25 from owning semi auto rifles just gives the other side more ammunition when they inevitably take power and when they take that power, they will pass laws that go beyond age restrictions, they will pass gun bans.

For all the posturing and grandeur of drawing a line and saying "not another inch!" sounds, it didn't do jack shit with bump stocks. We should have had a law go through the REPUBLICAN controlled congress that made bump stocks and NFA item, but removed suppressors from the NFA. But because every gun control hill is one we must die on, that didn't happen and we got ABSOLUTELY NOTHING.

That's the problem with the pro 2A side: we don't protect the downside, we don't try to limit our losses. It's always an All or Nothing approach and more often than not we come away with the nothing.

I doubt any of us are under 25 here, I don't see why anybody here cares if some kid who's mostly pre-occupied with where his next orgasm is going to come from isn't able to buy an AR until her turns 25. Still a lot of other guns those 18-24 can buy for self defense and also an age restriction on semi auto rifles would basically stop any potential full gun ban to those under 21 from being touted by Democrats.

YOU CAN'T BE SERIOUS.

Today I wore my "Shove Gun Control Up Your Ass" tee shirt just to piss people off. More people said they loved it. Nobody gave me any lip for it, not even a nasty look.
 
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