Transferring a firearm in CT after their systems upgrade...

[allen-1]

For those of you who don't know the process for transferring a firearm in CT -
It's actually pretty simple:
The seller, (private individual or FFL), calls the DESPP, (Dept of Emergency Services and Public Protection; Division of State Police), and provides them with the seller's FFL ID or CT weapons permit number and with the buyer's permit number. They do a quick look up and the sale is approved or denied. If approved, they give you a "sale authorization number", which goes on the DPS-3-C forms. Forms are then distributed to purchaser, seller, DESPP and police chief in purchaser's town.

CT just "upgraded" their computer system. They were down for longer than anticipated, and now it's an absolute shitshow. They've added two phone lines because they're so backed up.

I'm selling a pistol to a friend. We both have CT permits, (he's a resident, I'm a non-resident). He managed to get through to the DESPP yesterday morning - but he and I failed - the SELLER has to make the phone call.

So, last night at our pin match, we both started calling again. Rotating through the three numbers. One rings a few times, then tells you that no one is available to help you right now and disconnects. One goes to a message that says "this number is not set up for voicemail" and hangs up. The third just tells you that the mailbox is full.

Last night, Ed called 94 times. Seriously. I got a person on my 43rd call. We were on the phone for approximately 20 minutes, and got a temporary denial because they were unable to review Ed's records. Told me to call back tomorrow morning, (this morning).

I started calling this morning around 8:30. I got through on my 5th call. It then took 30 minutes for them to review Ed's records and issue an authorization number.

I have to say this - and I can't be more clear about it - both the man I spoke to last night, and the lady I spoke to this morning were calm, polite, friendly and working through a shitshow. They didn't create this situation, they're just handling the phone calls and working with what they've got.

Their IT department should be strung up by their genitalia.

 

[426wedge]

It is probably intentional...

 

[CrackPot]

Just curious how you do a transfer between two private parties when one of you is a non-resident. Or maybe I read your post incorrectly when you said you were a non-resident. Federal law requires private party transfers to be between residents of the same state.

 

[allen-1]

Just curious how you do a transfer between two private parties when one of you is a non-resident. Or maybe I read your post incorrectly when you said you were a non-resident. Federal law requires private party transfers to be between residents of the same state.

I am the seller and have a CT non-resident permit.
I can legally posses that particular firearm in CT, (it's your basic 1911).
Ed is the purchaser; he has a CT resident permit which allows him to purchase as well as carry handguns in CT.
Federal law says that you can only purchase a handgun in your state of residence.
Ed is purchasing in his state of residence.

CT law says that you must get all transfers approved by DEPPS, (used to be SLFU).
I called, told them that I'm doing a permit to permit transfer.
They authorized it.
It's not strictly speaking a "private party transfer", because the state is involved and authorized it.

https://portal.ct.gov/-/media/DESPP/SLFU/firearms/dps3cpdf.pdf?la=en

Obligatory - if I were home in GA the state wouldn't be involved at all.

 

[HorizontalHunter]

So once you get your permission slip after a combined 137 phone calls you can finally do the transfer.

This country is so freaking lost its pathetic.

 

[CrackPot]

I am the seller and have a CT non-resident permit.
I can legally posses that particular firearm in CT, (it's your basic 1911).
Ed is the purchaser; he has a CT resident permit which allows him to purchase as well as carry handguns in CT.
Federal law says that you can only purchase a handgun in your state of residence.
Ed is purchasing in his state of residence.

CT law says that you must get all transfers approved by DEPPS, (used to be SLFU).
I called, told them that I'm doing a permit to permit transfer.
They authorized it.
It's not strictly speaking a "private party transfer", because the state is involved and authorized it.

https://portal.ct.gov/-/media/DESPP/SLFU/firearms/dps3cpdf.pdf?la=en

Obligatory - if I were home in GA the state wouldn't be involved at all.

Let's separate state and federal consideration. I am only concerned with federal. This is a private party transfer under federal law. A FFL would have to be involved for it to not be a private party transfer. It is only lawful for the transfer of firearms between private parties in the state of which they are both residents. Period.

The transaction you are describing is not lawful unless the ATF considers you to be a resident of CT. Now that might be the case if you own property in CT as while you are at that property the ATF considers you a resident of CT. But if the ATF does not consider you a resident of CT, do not do this transaction as it is a violation of federal law.

I get that you followed state law and did it properly for CT. Unfortunately you also have to follow federal law.

 

[Broc]

For those of you who don't know the process for transferring a firearm in CT -
It's actually pretty simple:
The seller, (private individual or FFL), calls the DESPP, (Dept of Emergency Services and Public Protection; Division of State Police), and provides them with the seller's FFL ID or CT weapons permit number and with the buyer's permit number. They do a quick look up and the sale is approved or denied. If approved, they give you a "sale authorization number", which goes on the DPS-3-C forms. Forms are then distributed to purchaser, seller, DESPP and police chief in purchaser's town.

That doesn't sound simple at all.

Sounds like a giant pain in the a**, having to call, write sh*t down, mail forms ... I never thought I would be happy with the MA E-FA10.

 

[AHM]

It's not strictly speaking a "private party transfer", because the state is involved and authorized it.

This is a private party transfer under federal law. A FFL would have to be involved for it to not be a private party transfer. It is only lawful for the transfer of firearms between private parties in the state of which they are both residents. Period.

^ QFTMFT. I was just composing the same thing.

To be concrete, 18 USC 922 (a) (5) (GCA 68) states:

(a) It shall be unlawful—​

...​

(5) for any person (other than [an FFL])​

to transfer, sell, trade, give, transport, or deliver​

any firearm to any person (other than [an FFL])​

who ... does not reside in ... the State in which the transferor resides; ...​

Note well the complete and utter absence of the phrase
"... unless Connecticut is involved ...".

I believe that you snowbird,
so you may well be a CT resident this month.
Otherwise...

 

[xtry51]

Simple would be meeting up, one person hands gun, other hands money and you leave. This OP nightmare is not simple and exactly why my wife and I packed up after the Sandy Hook laws were passed.

 

[allen-1]

^ QFTMFT. I was just composing the same thing.

To be concrete, 18 USC 922 (a) (5) (GCA 68) states:

(a) It shall be unlawful—​

...​

(5) for any person (other than [an FFL])​

to transfer, sell, trade, give, transport, or deliver​

any firearm to any person (other than [an FFL])​

who ... does not reside in ... the State in which the transferor resides; ...​

Note well the complete and utter absence of the phrase
"... unless Connecticut is involved ...".

I believe that you snowbird,
so you may well be a CT resident this month.
Otherwise...

Let's separate state and federal consideration. I am only concerned with federal. This is a private party transfer under federal law. A FFL would have to be involved for it to not be a private party transfer. It is only lawful for the transfer of firearms between private parties in the state of which they are both residents. Period.

The transaction you are describing is not lawful unless the ATF considers you to be a resident of CT. Now that might be the case if you own property in CT as while you are at that property the ATF considers you a resident of CT. But if the ATF does not consider you a resident of CT, do not do this transaction as it is a violation of federal law.

I get that you followed state law and did it properly for CT. Unfortunately you also have to follow federal law.

I'm reading what you both are saying, and I followed @AHM's link - and - hmmmm.

 

[AHM]

I'm reading what you both are saying, and I followed @AHM's link - and - hmmmm.

As always, "stop me if I'm wrong".

In particular, I think I elided stuff (into ... and []) without changing
its application to your case. But by all means read the whole subsection.

---

I think the last time @Len-2A Training korected me,
it was that I misteakenly thought that
interstate person-to-person was OK for longarms (<= it's not).

And he was like, yeah no.

 

[CrackPot]

Personally I would delete this thread (ask for it to be deleted) as it does appear to be the confession that a federal felony was committed. But maybe you look good in orange

 

[allen-1]

Simple would be meeting up, one person hands gun, other hands money and you leave. This OP nightmare is not simple and exactly why my wife and I packed up after the Sandy Hook laws were passed.

Well yeah.

Personally I would delete this thread (ask for it to be deleted) as it does appear to be the confession that a federal felony was committed. But maybe you look good in orange

I don't look good in orange, but I'll leave the thread.

I obeyed all state laws by going through the DEPPS.

By ATF's definition, I'm a resident in CT - I've paid personal property tax and leased the same property for the last 15 years, in/on which I reside typically for five months of each year - so I'm good on the federal level.

 

[BryanLJ1]

But, when making an interstate sale of a pistol within CT, does the buyer have to also complete the ATF Form 4473 and if so, where does he send it to?? Also, is it the responsibility of the seller to ensure that the buyer completes Form 4473 and submits it?

 

[allen-1]

But, when making an interstate sale of a pistol within CT, does the buyer have to also complete the ATF Form 4473 and if so, where does he send it to?? Also, is it the responsibility of the seller to ensure that the buyer completes Form 4473 and submits it?

Inter or intra?

Within CT private sale requires CT form, no fed 4473 required.

Crossing state lines, pistol sale requires FFL and 4473.

 

[BryanLJ1]

Wow, for once Uncle Sam doesn’t have his hand in the pot! Good to know, thanks!

 

[Hustler One]

@BryanLJ1 @allen-1 you cannot do private transfers in CT anymore. This is from SLFU's website.

 

[allen-1]

@BryanLJ1 @allen-1 you cannot do private transfers in CT anymore. This is from SLFU's website.

Wow. I did not know they’d changed that. Thank you.

As of a year ago I have no property in CT or any real reason to visit. I’m not as aware of CT laws as I used to be. Mea culpa.

 

[MAJoe]

Wow. I did not know they’d changed that. Thank you.

As of a year ago I have no property in CT or any real reason to visit. I’m not as aware of CT laws as I used to be. Mea culpa.

I believe the FBI told them they needed to stop. When a private transfer was done on the hotline, they ran a NICS check on the buyer. Only FFLs can do NICS checks so they had to stop.

 

[Hustler One]

Wow. I did not know they’d changed that. Thank you.

As of a year ago I have no property in CT or any real reason to visit. I’m not as aware of CT laws as I used to be. Mea culpa.

Yeah, its bullshit. Something we've been doing for decades with no problems and then some little young by the book f***stick at the FBI got a bug up their ass about it. CT, of course, bends the knee.

 

[drgrant]

Yeah, its bullshit. Something we've been doing for decades with no problems and then some little young by the book f***stick at the FBI got a bug up their ass about it. CT, of course, bends the knee.

If CT decided that they wanted to run a full NICS poc they could get away with doing them whenever they wanted, but that would likely cost the state money that they don't want to pay.

 

[Hustler One]

If CT decided that they wanted to run a full NICS poc they could get away with doing them whenever they wanted, but that would likely cost the state money that they don't want to pay.

That is correct.