SWAT team raids Innocent People Twice

[Supermoto]

.
Does this shit happen? Often enough to be a statistic, but so does every other kind of workplace accident.

My work place accidents do not involve violating civil rights and shooting people and their dogs

 

[el duderino]

My work place accidents do not involve violating civil rights and shooting people and their dogs

No, but if this happened to me, im going after the chief or detective, not the officers who busted down my door and shot my dogs because they growled and pissed themselves.

But im pretty laidback and more understanding of peoples f*** ups, and if all that happened was my door getting knocked down, id likely just tell them to replace the door and call first next time.

 

[CRSIII]

I can tell a couple things:

I never do anything illegal. I may bend a traffic law from time to time - speeding with the new truck - but that's it - I'm too old for foolishness.

If ANYONE breaks down my door in the day, night, or eclipse of the sun - they are going to be fired at, and most likely hit.

If the police have a search warrant, then nock on my door.

Without seeing your face and picture ID - I DON'T KNOW YOU.


Now, I do not wish harm on anyone - bad guys included, we all fall short of His desires for us. However, that doesn't mean I 'march into the showers' either.

And He is most forgiving.

Therefore I will not hesitate if the devil knocks on my door.

Fine post, rep to you.

 

[crazymjb]

what i was getting at is that regardless of what anyone tells you is 'alright' or 'legal'.....ultimately YOU and YOU alone are responsible for YOUR actions........im not necessarily calling the officers evil bad people.....but they are responsible.....i mean, you hope the information you are getting is correct, but if it isnt, youve got to eat it.

refer to my previous post(#21)........in that situation, you were just following orders.....now somewhere along the way the address got mixed up(doesnt make a difference as to how).......but in that situation, you would be the one going to jail.........so why should it be any different because they have badges.

I wouldn't kick someones door down period. The door kickers on a SWAT team on the other hand are relying on the detectives, investigators, team leaders, and judges who signed the warrant as confirmation that they are good to go on the logistics front. It is fair and safe for them to assume those details have been worked out. It is not fair to assume that every member of the team has access to the real estate information on who the current owner of the house is. There is a reason for chain of command and allocating jobs. Now if an individual gets trigger happy and mercs a pug, then that's on them.

Mike

 

[Supermoto]

But im pretty laidback and more understanding of peoples f*** ups, and if all that happened was my door getting knocked down, id likely just tell them to replace the door and call first next time.

I guess I'm not as tolerant of having a gun stuck in my face and my right violated by the very people that I'm paying to protect them. Any entity that has sworn to protect the constitution, then has no penalty when they violate them; is corrupt and can not be trusted

 

[Mcameron]

The door kickers on a SWAT team on the other hand are relying on the detectives, investigators, team leaders, and judges who signed the warrant as confirmation that they are good to go on the logistics front. It is fair and safe for them to assume those details have been worked out.

like i said, they hope the information they are getting is correct.....but if its not, shits on them.

they are the ones physically committing the crime........so why shouldnt they be the ones charged.....because they are police?....because they were just following orders?...because they didnt know any better?......im sorry, but that shit dont fly.

 

[groundscrapers]

What happens when they do a no knock on the wrong someone and they get lit up like a christmas tree. What then? Its only a matter of time before innocent cops are laid out because someone perceived them as as threat.

 

[cstockwell]

so tell me this. these f***ers kick your door in and you shoot one of them and say you live to tell about it. Are you held accountable for killing that officer who kicked in the wrong door?

 

[crazymjb]

I would say no. You acted in self defense.

Mike

 

[cstockwell]

I would say no. You acted in self defense.

Mike

I would agree with you (as the thousands others here) but chances are in this state you are screwed.

 

[noddaduma]

What happens when they do a no knock on the wrong someone and they get lit up like a christmas tree. What then? Its only a matter of time before innocent cops are laid out because someone perceived them as as threat.

That's already happened, except the people getting lit up like a christmas tree are the innocent homeowners. Nothing much really came of these...

 

[economist]

So youre saying each individual swat team member must first verify that they have the correct address for the gangbangers at 31 maple st that is given to them by the detective who got a judge to sign a no knock warrant for that address even though hes an idiot and theyre really at 31 oak st? My feeling is its all on the guy running the investigation, and at a minimum should be suspended without pay pending the investigation into his stupidity, and if hes the same guy responsible for both f-ups, then hes fired. And let the folks sue the department for both incidents.
Does this shit happen? Often enough to be a statistic, but so does every other kind of workplace accident.

I wouldn't kick someones door down period. The door kickers on a SWAT team on the other hand are relying on the detectives, investigators, team leaders, and judges who signed the warrant as confirmation that they are good to go on the logistics front. It is fair and safe for them to assume those details have been worked out. It is not fair to assume that every member of the team has access to the real estate information on who the current owner of the house is. There is a reason for chain of command and allocating jobs. Now if an individual gets trigger happy and mercs a pug, then that's on them.

Mike

We have this thread about weekly. That's because these "isolated incidents" keep happening.

Everyone involved should be fully responsible. If the guys behind the guns knew they were responsible then they might take it upon themselves to double check things. Or, at least they might settle down enough to let the occasional dog live. Frankly, I don't care anymore whether this is fair or reasonable. I'm tired of living in what is becoming a police state, where a standing military of men in black routine breaks into private residences in order to further this idiotic war on drugs. It won't end until somebody starts to feel the pain other than innocent poor people.

I'll compromise. Let's start with just one guy. I don't care who it is. But somebody in the chain should be fired, and charged with every crime I would get thrown at me if I entered your house, gun drawn, and threatened you. Let's just begin with that.

 

[crazymjb]

Just like the military, they don't feel hurt until you start sacrificing big guys. You think they care if a couple Sgts or Cpls get fired? What about some Lts, respected Detectives, Cpts, etc. They are the ones screwing up, they are the ones that need to be scared straight. The problem is, as you all have said, NOBODY is being held responsible.

Mike

 

[CRSIII]

NOBODY is being held responsible.

Mike

Well, maybe just a few. The wrong few.

I would be screwed.

 

[TimMcG74]

I am not involved in illegal activity, so I have nothing to hide. Therefore, when someone is breaking my door down, I assume it is a malicious attack and go in to defensive mode. SWAT wouldn't have a chance to do this to me twice; they likely would have killed me the first time they invaded my home.

 

[scottb]

http://www.cato.org/raidmap/

Sleep tight America.

 

[FalArAk]

so tell me this. these f***ers kick your door in and you shoot one of them and say you live to tell about it. Are you held accountable for killing that officer who kicked in the wrong door?

You kill a cop,you are going to jail.

No matter what the circumstances are,you are going to jail.

In the situation you are talking about,you will be killed by his buddies anyway,so it's a moot point.

Cops you see,are more equal and are to be treated as such.

 

[drgrant]

I'll compromise. Let's start with just one guy. I don't care who it is. But somebody in the chain should be fired, and charged with every crime I would get thrown at me if I entered your house, gun drawn, and threatened you. Let's just begin with that.

+1... at least in this case, the detective who gave them the crappy info, at a bare minimum, should be fired. IMHO this is the kind of thing that should be treated as seriously as a doctor performing an amputation, and what the detective(s) did here was the functional equivalent of cutting off the wrong leg.

-Mike

 

[drgrant]

Just like the military, they don't feel hurt until you start sacrificing big guys. You think they care if a couple Sgts or Cpls get fired? What about some Lts, respected Detectives, Cpts, etc. They are the ones screwing up, they are the ones that need to fired w /no pension. The problem is, as you all have said, NOBODY is being held responsible.

Fixed it for you. And IMHO, that's the bare minimum. If a non criminal gets hurt or killed as a result of this kind of BS, then an ADW or manslaughter charges should be brought.

-Mike

 

[BearArms]

http://www.cato.org/raidmap/

Sleep tight America.

Wow not looking to good up here in the north east

 

[bullseye]

You kill a cop,you are going to jail.

No matter what the circumstances are,you are going to jail.

In the situation you are talking about,you will be killed by his buddies anyway,so it's a moot point.

Cops you see,are more equal and are to be treated as such.

This is the part that is pure BS. The cops have for way too long, put themselves on a pedestal that is untouchable and their shit don't stink. Even if they have broken the laws they are sworn to uphold, illegal entry into a home, shooting your dog or worse a family member, because of a typo??!! And no heads roll, internal investigation sweeps facts into the corner under the copier and then they joke about how frightened the homeowner(s) were and how cool they were in their tac gear. One day they are going to kick in the wrong door and that homeowner is going to leave a trail of dead cops and it will not be his fault for defending his home against an illegal entry. It's time to check, double check and then have someone else confirm the right address before you go taking down an alleged perp.

 

[terraformer]

You kill a cop,you are going to jail.

No matter what the circumstances are,you are going to jail.

In the situation you are talking about,you will be killed by his buddies anyway,so it's a moot point.

Cops you see,are more equal and are to be treated as such.

There was a botched raid in MA some while back and the homeowner was let off. I will try to find it.

 

[endus]

The Police officers and all involved need to be charged with Assault with a Dangerous weapon. They need to be held directly accountable for their mistake, not the taxpayers. And enough with this war on drugs. Its is a huge waste of money

Nothing in this country is anyone's fault anymore. No one ever gets fired or in trouble for their massive, earth crushing mistakes.

 

[groundscrapers]

This one really troubles me...

Officer Ron Jones

December 26, 2001—MS

On December 26, 2001, police in Prentiss, Mississippi serve search warrants on two apartments in a yellow duplex. One apartment is occupied by Jamie Smith, named in the warrant as a "known drug dealer." The other is occupied by Cory Maye, who has no criminal record, and isn't named in the warrants.

At the time of the raid, Maye is asleep with his 18-month old daughter. After trying and failing to kick down the front door, police move to the back, and break down the door to Maye's bedroom. Maye is lying in the dark with his daughter, clutching a handgun. According to his trial testimony, he is unaware that the men breaking into his home are the police.

Officer Ron Jones is the first police officer to enter. Maye fires three times, striking Jones once. Maye's bullet hit Jones in the abdomen, just below his bulletproof vest. Jones dies a short time later. Police find only traces of marijuana in Maye's apartment, after first telling reporters they'd found no drugs at all.

Officer Jones was the only officer who conducted the investigation leading up to the raid, and apparently kept no notes of his investigation. According to the district attorney and prosecutor in the Maye case, all evidence of the investigation leading to the raid on Maye's home "died with Officer Jones," who is also the son of the Prentiss police chief.

In January 2004, Cory Maye was convicted of capital murder for the death of Jones, and sentenced to die by lethal injection.

Sources:

Antoinette Konz, "Jury sentences man to die," Hattiesburg American, January 24, 2004, p. A1.

"Source's tip leading to drug raid results in officer's death," Baton Rouge Advocate, December 31, 2001, p. B2.

Antoinette Konz, "Defendant says he didn't know man he shot was officer," Hattiesburg American, January 23, 2004, p. A1.

Jimmie Gates, "Young officer shot dead on drug raid called hero," Jackson Clarion-Ledger, December 21, 2001.

Research and interviews conducted by Radley Balko.

 

[terraformer]

There was a botched raid in MA some while back and the homeowner was let off. I will try to find it.

I can't find it. Maybe someone with excellent recall like boudrie will come along and give us the name or town it happened in.

 

[cekim]

TACTICAL SEGWAYYYYYYYYYSSSS AAARRGGGHHHH

Bring it!

 

[Twigg]

I can't find it. Maybe someone with excellent recall like boudrie will come along and give us the name or town it happened in.

Mark Ragsdale.

 

[terraformer]

Mark Ragsdale.

Thanks. That's the one. It wasn't a raid but the cops failed to notify on who they were.

 

[codenamepaul]

If you are a gunowner, you need to expect that at some point in the future, you will be subject to one of these raids. Be it in the near future or distant, it is as inevitable as the sunrise tomorrow.

Prepare as you see fit to deal with it.

 

[June4th]

There was a botched raid in MA some while back and the homeowner was let off. I will try to find it.

Searched from http://www.cato.org/raidmap/ Highlights added.

Det. Sherman Griffiths

February 17, 1988—MA

In 1990, a jury in Greenfield, Massachusetts acquits Albert Lewin of six charges, including first-degree murder, for the shooting death of Detective Sherman Griffiths.

Lewin, a Jamaican immigrant, was accused of shooting Griffiths as Griffiths attempted to break down a third-floor apartment door with a sledgehammer as part of a drug raid. Lewin was later found in a first-floor apartment of the same building, and implicated by another resident of that apartment.

The prosecution's case against Lewin was hampered by the fact that the warrant for the drug raid had been issued based on a tip from an anonymous informant police later conceded was entirely fictional.

After Lewin's acquittal, Boston police commissioner Francis Roache issued a statement to be read to all of the city's police officers, urging them, "Do not believe for even one fleeting moment that [Griffith's] death was in vain . . . Let us honor his memory by continuing to wage the war on drugs."

Source:

Doris Sue Wong, "Lewin is found not guilty," Boston Globe, October 26, 1990, p. A1.