SWAT team raids Innocent People Twice


According to Mr. Ragsdale’s former executive assistant Laura Robertson, Mr. Ragsdale was known for violent mood swings, she said in her affidavit in the case.

“More troublesome in the context of these violent mood swings and tantrums is Mr. Ragsdale’s fascination with firearms and large-frame, large-caliber, ‘cowboy’-type revolvers,” she said.

Everybody NES member is guilty as charged!
 
Just like when we bombed the Chinese Embassy in Yugoslavia during the Clinton years, lots of homework wasn't done that should have been done. Can't blame the pilot... have to blame the Intel guys. What really sucks is we civilians are held accountable for our actions, but apparently some have get out of jail free cards. I'm no expert but SWAT teams go where they're sent. Who ever sent them there needs to be held accountable for this.
 
so tell me this. these f***ers kick your door in and you shoot one of them and say you live to tell about it. Are you held accountable for killing that officer who kicked in the wrong door?

You kill a cop,you are going to jail.

No matter what the circumstances are,you are going to jail.

In the situation you are talking about,you will be killed by his buddies anyway,so it's a moot point.

Cops you see,are more equal and are to be treated as such.

One of their own goes down and the hail of lead that's going to be coming your way will ensure that any decision in your favor will only console your widow.
 
I applaud Cato Institute's report on this subject. The report has an appalling collection of 'isolated incidents' and sound legal/social analysis:

http://www.cato.org/pubs/wtpapers/balko_whitepaper_2006.pdf

Americans have long maintained that a man’s
home is his castle and that he has the right to
defend it from unlawful intruders. Unfortunately,
that right may be disappearing. Over the
last 25 years, America has seen a disturbing militarization
of its civilian law enforcement, along
with a dramatic and unsettling rise in the use of
paramilitary police units (most commonly called
Special Weapons and Tactics, or SWAT) for routine
police work. The most common use of SWAT
teams today is to serve narcotics warrants, usually
with forced, unannounced entry into the
home.
 
"The most common use of SWAT
teams today is to serve narcotics warrants, usually
with forced, unannounced entry into the
home."

What worries me is if they can get away with raiding the homes of innocent people and only having to say "oops" then what actually stands in their way from raiding anyone's home just to see what they can find? Generally most things are inadmissible in court if they're not actually looking for it, but this could be a way for them to incite defensive reactions from law abiding gun owners.
 
My prediction is that it is going to take a very high-profile home invasion by these [STRIKE]jackbooted SWAT teams[/STRIKE] thugs that will end in a gunowner shooting one or more of them AND surviving to go on trial before enough public outcry is generated to stop this loathsome and un-Constitutional process.

Do I want to see this happen? No, it's just my prediction.
 
Hopefully some high priced lawsuits will be enough for them to get their heads out of their asses, and actually verify intel given to them by detectives. All it takes is a quick check at the registry of deeds computer network to see who owns the house, then determine through the owner who the renter is, provided it's being rented. It's so easy to avoid screw ups like this...
 
I guess I'm not as tolerant of having a gun stuck in my face and my right violated by the very people that I'm paying to protect them. Any entity that has sworn to protect the constitution, then has no penalty when they violate them; is corrupt and can not be trusted

If only life were that simple. We all agree that whomever put the address on the warrant was wrong, and should be dealt with accordingly and appropriately. I'm sure we disagree on the need for "no-knocks", but that's another thread.

However, "armed" with a valid signed warrant, the entry team is less responsible for kicking the wrong door. Other actions inside depend on the PD's ROE policies. I wasn't there.
 
My prediction is that it is going to take a very high-profile home invasion by these [STRIKE]jackbooted SWAT teams[/STRIKE] thugs that will end in a gunowner shooting one or more of them AND surviving to go on trial before enough public outcry is generated to stop this loathsome and un-Constitutional process.

Do I want to see this happen? No, it's just my prediction.

This.

Nothing will change until they invade someone's house that's actually "important." You and I, we don't count..... we're just "little people" in the grand scheme of things.

Perfect storm = botched SWAT raid on home ... home = home of state rep, judge, or senator.... Prominent person kills cop during raid, cops kill prominent person, then realize mistake. Outcome = no knock raids banned.

It'll never happen, though, it's like winning the powerball twice.

-Mike
 
Nothing will change until they invade someone's house that's actually "important." You and I, we don't count..... we're just "little people" in the grand scheme of things.

I think things will change when two old ladies playing cribbage end up with 267 bullets holes in them and it was the wrong address. That would be murder, no way around it.
 
If the Tac Team kicks your door in and you return defensive fire, you WILL be turned into Swiss cheese, there is no doubt about that. You may be lucky enough to take one or two of the intruders down, but you will have signed your death warrant by just picking up a weapon to protect yourself. God forbid there is a child anywhere near you. And the worse thing is, you will have been within your right to protect yourself, your home and your children. This is why god loving and fearing Americans who believe in the Constitution need to stand up against this form of government intrusion and begin to take their country back. Our privacy is long gone when the SS is able to "say" wrong address, put their gear back in the trunks of their vehicles and drive away for the funeral home to come pick up what is left. It's just a matter of time, unless we are able to get a President who has the stomach to say its time to turn the country upside down and return it to the people, the Constitution and the Bill of Rights that this country was built upon and has been taken from the people.
Wrong address, my ass!!
 
If the Tac Team kicks your door in and you return defensive fire, you WILL be turned into Swiss cheese, there is no doubt about that.

And yet, the home invaders have learned to yell out "Police" when they break into your house.

Damned if you do and blasted if you don't. [thinking]
 
If the Tac Team kicks your door in and you return defensive fire, you WILL be turned into Swiss cheese, there is no doubt about that.

No doubt about that! Who would actually be ready for something like that? You'd have to spend your life in an armored box in the middle of your living room [smile]
 
This.

Nothing will change until they invade someone's house that's actually "important." You and I, we don't count..... we're just "little people" in the grand scheme of things.

Perfect storm = botched SWAT raid on home ... home = home of state rep, judge, or senator.... Prominent person kills cop during raid, cops kill prominent person, then realize mistake. Outcome = no knock raids banned.

It'll never happen, though, it's like winning the powerball twice.
What really needs to happen, that won't, is that people have to re-acknowledge that crime and security is not something for which "they" are responsible, but something for which WE are responsible.

We've outsourced this aspect of "community," and we are reaping the "rewards" now...

It's human nature it seems - you go to the toilets of the earth and still you find people in literal puddles of their own feces waiting for "the government"TM to fix it...

We can decide there is another way and for a time America did, but it seems we've reverted to the mean.
 
Well this is a nice one.

Bruce Lavoie

Police conduct a late-night raid on the Hudson, New Hampshire apartment of unarmed Bruce Lavoie, 35, his wife, and their three children.

Police Sergeant Stephen Burke kicks open the Lavoie's front door with such vigor, his gun accidentally goes off in his hand, waking the Lavoies. When Bruce Lavoie rises from his bed to confront what he thinks are criminal intruders, he is shot and killed in front of his wife and three small children.

Police find one marijuana cigarette in Lavoie's apartment. A subsequent investigation found police in the raid to be "blameless," though investigators did call the raid a "serious breach of police protocol." In the end, however, the investigation blamed Lavoie for his own death, concluding that he'd never have been shot had he "obeyed clear and concise commands to get down on the floor."

In 1990, however, a judge ruling on a separate raid found that Hudson police "flagrantly" violated New Hampshire's state ban on no-knock drug raids, and ensuing newspaper reports found that police in Hudson and nearby communities routinely served drug warrants without first announcing themselves, a violation of state law. The city of Hudson eventually settled with Lavoie's family for $800,000.

Sources:
Tom West, "Hudson Police Blameless in Report," Manchester Union Leader, November 7, 1989.
Pat Grossmith, "Police Didn't Knock First; Judge Rips Hudson Drug Raid. Chiefs Say Ruling Has Little Effect," Manchester Union Leader, July 31, 1990, p. 1.
Pat Grossmith, "Some Police Use No-Knock Search Warrants," Manchester Union Leader, August 1, 1990, p. 1.
Kris Frieswick, "Hudson Will Pay Widow $800,000; Bruce Lavoie Shot During 1989 Drug Raid," Manchester Union Leader, November 17, 1990, p. 1.
 
"When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty." - Thomas Jefferson, third President of the United States.

That's some great stuff! These days Thomas Jefferson would be placed on a terrorist watch list. The Stars and Stripes are nothing more than a figure head to the government these days. They swear an oath to uphold and protect the Constitution then wipe their fat asses with it the first chance they get.
 
Well this is a nice one.
A judge ruled?

A jury should have been consulted and that jury should put themselves in the place of the homeowner woken in the middle of the night by the sound of their door being kicked in and gunfire...

They've placed innocent people in an impossible situation where they cannot distinguish between the actions of a home invader (who very will could be operating under the guise of SWAT these days) and the overzealous police forces in some areas.

This is a clear case where we as a society have to make a choice between security and liberty and the choice includes accepting that some "bad people" don't get arrested to ensure that the doors of innocent people are not being kicked down and people killed and accused of murder for doing what any reasonable person would do in that circumstance.

Much like our standard of evidence and presumption of innocence in the court means some "bad people" go free. It stinks, but that's the price of liberty...

The bar for "no knock" needs to be raised MUCH higher and we need to accept that this means some "bad guys" will get away. Once again, so much of this is part of the "war on drugs" that we have lost along with our liberties.
 
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