SWAT standoff in Billerica

[In God We Trust]

So you would seek revenge or have the government seek revenge for your property damage by causing greater damage to their property and killing them. Okay.

Dude, its not the property damage, its the very real threat that myself or my family could have been hurt or killed. Taking such a dangerous course of action like intentionally shooting at my house should have severe consequenses. I personally have no problem with someone getting killed in response to a threat like that.

 

[In God We Trust]

So you would seek revenge or have the government seek revenge for your property damage by causing greater damage to their property and killing them. Okay.

- - - Updated - - -



Nope. Wrong answer. If you want to call the cops and press charges, that is your right. I am simply saying that it is also your right to not call the cops and not press charges; it isn't the right of the state to step in against your will.

Ok, I have no problem with a crime victim having the ability to not seek charges for most crimes, but certainly not all. This case is borderline in my opinion, because of the danger involved. Where we seriously disagree is that this is just a simple property crime.

 

[drgrant]

Did you miss the first two words of my post? If one's rights to life, liberty or property haven't been violated, then there is no crime. If they have been, it is the decision of the one who was violated whether or not charges are brought. If you put a hole in my house with a bullet and I decide that as long as you fix it or pay to have it fixed then we are even, the police can keep their asses home and the neighbors can MTOFB.

Well, the problem with bullets in houses is they can be construed two different ways:

1- my neighbor was doing target practice and had a miss or an ND. Maybe I'll forgive him

2- my neighbor is an a**h*** and hates me and I think that lobbing a bullet at my house is a threat.

Depending on the way it "comes off" to the "victim" you can see the difference in response.

I don't care of my neighbors have a machine gun and fire it into a bullet trap 7 yards away. If I find bullets in my house though, I am going to be pretty pissed about it. Putting a bullet in someones house implies a certain level of negligence.

-Mike

 

[drgrant]

However, if you are inside, hear a shot and a thud on your exterior wall from a .32 that didn't make it through, looked outside to find me going into my house, then call the cops and report the property damage.

You know as well as I do though that if you do that, the cops will probably go FR and the same thing will happen.

If you really believe it was "just an accident", it's best not to get the PoPo involved at all unless you know those responding well enough to know they won't make it worse.

-Mike

 

[midas]

I would be livid if someone shot at my house on purpose and would want payback of sorts. I might press charges even if it was a ND. I don't think of this as a property issue as long as my house walls can be penetrated by bullets. It could endanger my family just the same, whether it was on purpose or not.

However, i agree that it should be my choice to press charges or not.

 

[OfficerObie59]

Yeah. That's it. A neighbor calls the cops and says someone is shooting the neighbors house, and police should sit home and see if they work it out on their own.

But--but--liberty is dangerous. If you live in a free society, you need to be prepared to accept the risk. [/sarcasm]

 

[Deleted member 22390]

lol they didnt even use the middlesex sheriffs office SWAT team and its 2 seconds down the road ahahaha

 

[MAGG]

Is "telephonically" a real word?

i was thinking the same thing haha

 

[jarhead1775usmc]

Did SWAT make entry to the house or did they work on a peaceful solution to the problem? I don't think the article says anything about a shoot out. Just saying....

From my perspective, I wouldn't want to just walk up to the door and ask a guy, who may or may not be a little off reservation, if he would mind fixing his neighbor's siding since he blew a slug through it. Even as a cop, if someone launches a round at my house I'm grabbing my wife, kid, and carbine and calling it in!

I understand the sentiment if wanting to preserve rights... I get it. However, LE isn't going to ignore a call for help (which existed here, this was not police initiated) and they are certainly not going to show up unprepared for the worst. All I see in the article is "guy goes a little crazy, shoots at neighbor's house, barricades himself and eventually surrenders."

Some of these posters really should step back a minute and look a both sides of the situation (not story) as it stood at the scene. And perhaps do a little reading on MGLs regarding assault and felony rights of arrest. *off soapbox*

 

[el duderino]

I almost peed in my pants laughing at this statement. This was on page three of a thread which, to that point, contained nothing but wild speculation about how badly the police were mishandling the entire incident.

I didnt say all of us or even myself, just the people who havnt posted yet

That is exactly what they are saying. I mean, based on what is in this thread and what I read in an earlier thread today (now locked) there are several people here that think you need to actually physically harm me or my property before I should have any legal recourse to stop you. Apparently you can shoot bullets six inches from my ear all day long and as long as you don't hit me, no harm no foul.

But there is harm in this situation unless youre wearing ear protection, sue him civilly for damages.

The How to Lose an LTC in 10 Days thread (that's what it was called, right?) If you really need me to go back through these two threads to point out the instances where more than one poster clearly stated they are opposed to any law that tries to stop people from being harmed before it happens, then I will. But I don't think I need to because they will probably agree with that sentiment here. On this very page someone said if your rights to life liberty or property aren't violated there is no crime.

That's not me trying to make anyone out to be anarchists - they seem to be doing that just fine by themselves.

It would seem you dont understand what anarchy is, maybe you should post what you think it means and we can have a level debate.

 

[Martlet]

Are you guys really saying that shooting at someone's house should only be a misdemeanor if nobody gets killed? A fine and a slap on the wrist? This site is starting to go full retard more and more every day. Its cool then if I shoot the tires on your kids bike when he rides by my house as long as I don't hit him and pay for the damages? Seriously some of you guys need your ****ing heads examined.

This

 

[pastera]

Serious retard going on here

We know next to nothing except

1 Someone called the cops
2 Guy has an expired LTC
3 they found a casing
4 Neighbor claims his house was shot at (notice there is no mention of an actual impact)

The casing suggests that a round was fired but gives no direction of travel - without more evidence there is only a 500' setback or a 150' from hard surfaced road issue

What if the guy popped one off at a rabbit AND he holds a hunting license? perfectly legal to hunt rabbit with a hand gun. He would run into issues with setback but that's it.

Obviously the neighbor, rightfully, is pissed and brought in the police to enforce his own rights. If there is a hole in the neighbors house, then there is evidence of malice. Without evidence of malice, then this guy should simply get a fine for his expired LTC (don't agree but...) and for discharging within 500' of a home without permission (if there is proof that he did fire a round). A hole in the house (or recovery of the round from a location indicating as such) should bring down reckless endangerment, willfull destruction and/or assault charges depending on the circumstances.

 

[TomH]

Expired LTC?
Explain to me how someone's CONSTITUTIONALLY PROTECTED RIGHTS expire?
Does FREE SPEECH expire next???

Yes, now shut up before you get caught.

 

[schnips]

Did SWAT make entry to the house or did they work on a peaceful solution to the problem? I don't think the article says anything about a shoot out. Just saying....

From my perspective, I wouldn't want to just walk up to the door and ask a guy, who may or may not be a little off reservation, if he would mind fixing his neighbor's siding since he blew a slug through it. Even as a cop, if someone launches a round at my house I'm grabbing my wife, kid, and carbine and calling it in!

I understand the sentiment if wanting to preserve rights... I get it. However, LE isn't going to ignore a call for help (which existed here, this was not police initiated) and they are certainly not going to show up unprepared for the worst. All I see in the article is "guy goes a little crazy, shoots at neighbor's house, barricades himself and eventually surrenders."

Some of these posters really should step back a minute and look a both sides of the situation (not story) as it stood at the scene. And perhaps do a little reading on MGLs regarding assault and felony rights of arrest. *off soapbox*

Shut up! You are not allowed to make sense in this thread!

 

[TWtommers]

Serious retard going on here

We know next to nothing except

1 Someone called the cops
2 Guy has an expired LTC
3 they found a casing
4 Neighbor claims his house was shot at (notice there is no mention of an actual impact)

The casing suggests that a round was fired but gives no direction of travel - without more evidence there is only a 500' setback or a 150' from hard surfaced road issue

What if the guy popped one off at a rabbit AND he holds a hunting license? perfectly legal to hunt rabbit with a hand gun. He would run into issues with setback but that's it.

Obviously the neighbor, rightfully, is pissed and brought in the police to enforce his own rights. If there is a hole in the neighbors house, then there is evidence of malice. Without evidence of malice, then this guy should simply get a fine for his expired LTC (don't agree but...) and for discharging within 500' of a home without permission (if there is proof that he did fire a round). A hole in the house (or recovery of the round from a location indicating as such) should bring down reckless endangerment, willfull destruction and/or assault charges depending on the circumstances.

You are right to say we have next to no information but the bolded line above almost made me shoot water out of my nose. The casing they recovered was a .30 caliber. I'm picturing the guy shooting a bunny at close range with an M1 carbine paratrooper and seeing nothing left but a hole and some fur I might need more coffee.

 

[PaulD]

If the reports are true that he fired at the house and he actually did damage, then a civil infraction is all that is needed. SWAT? GMAFB

Shooting at a neighbor's house should only be a civil infraction? GMAFB indeed.

 

[PaulD]

Yes, if someone intentionally shoots at my house, I would like to see them ventilated. Someone with that little regard for my family is a waste of oxygen to me.

Hell, if someone unintentionally, shoots at my house, I've lost all sympathy for him.

 

[EC1]

1 in custody and animal control is coming to take control of his rottweiller. LTC confirmed to be expired.

Probably just waiting for his renewal.

 

[pastera]

You are right to say we have next to no information but the bolded line above almost made me shoot water out of my nose. The casing they recovered was a .30 caliber. I'm picturing the guy shooting a bunny at close range with an M1 carbine paratrooper and seeing nothing left but a hole and some fur I might need more coffee.

Nice tender meat ready for the stew, don't even need to skin it - that's think ahead and saving some time

 

[MassMark]

I know what the reality is, but I am just trying to argue what we should be striving for. What good is a reset if most people who are supposed to be on the right team don't even understand what liberty really is? We can all agree that things should never have gotten this far, but we will neve do anything about it if peoples' knee jerk reaction is to have SWAT called because someone made their soft and warmy feeling go away.

I guess there really can be no middle ground - it's all bets are off and SWAT gets called. No investigation, no proof. Just my word that a bullet got fired and I'll have your ass in a sling. Dog keeps shitting in my yard? No problem - I'll call SWAT in to stack up outside your door - that'll learn ya...Plinking in the back yard and a ricochet lands in my flower box? I don't think so - I'm calling in SWAT - that'll teach you to not be a good range safety ranger. Hell, guy deserves to be strung up just for carrying a .32 in the first place...

Now where's my bankie?

 

[jarhead1775usmc]

Shut up! You are not allowed to make sense in this thread!

Just did a spit take of my post shift beverage. LOL.

 

[ckaminski]

Police from Wilmington and Burlington were on hand, assisting.

Police from BELMONT and a helicopter were on the scene (after the SWAT team was). I know - I chose this day to drive home from getting dinner at the Chicken Shack.

Lots of bystanders and looky-loos.

 

[DrRansom]

Careful, you'll play a starring role on his blog tomorrow morning.

Lol, we'll have to bar the doors against the roving hordes of pro-gun Democrats, and all of the other walking logical fallacies that get lumped in with those types...

 

[CdP]

IBTL

 

[HTRN]

Lol, we'll have to bar the doors against the roving hordes of pro-gun Democrats, and all of the other walking logical fallacies that get lumped in with those types...

http://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/

This is their playbook.

 

[namedpipes]

The article linked in the OP currently says:

Neighbor called police when the person "displayed" a dark colored handgun.

Police arrive, SWAT called in.

The man was peacefully taken into custody.

It's slanted a bit, but that is the gist.

It sounds to me like there is a neighborhood squabble going on. My guess is the neighbor has an Obama/Biden bumper sticker.

The article doesn't mention any actual shooting. Maybe there is more info than that article though.


Now if said "suspect" is taking potshots at people, he needs to take a vacation at club fed. If neighbor is stirring up trouble because he doesn't like guns, then HE needs to take a vacation at club fed.

I have spoken.

 

[HTRN]

The article linked in the OP currently says:

Neighbor called police when the person "displayed" a dark colored handgun.

Police arrive, SWAT called in.

The man was peacefully taken into custody.

It's slanted a bit, but that is the gist.

It sounds to me like there is a neighborhood squabble going on. My guess is the neighbor has an Obama/Biden bumper sticker.

The article doesn't mention any actual shooting. Maybe there is more info than that article though.


Now if said "suspect" is taking potshots at people, he needs to take a vacation at club fed. If neighbor is stirring up trouble because he doesn't like guns, then HE needs to take a vacation at club fed.

I have spoken.

Hopefully we can get the real story later today.

Is it clear if he was on his property or not?

If a firearm is seen, but not brandished or presented in a threatening manner, does the charge stick?

If this guy didn't actually do anything, like discharge or criminally threaten, but he is still charged with firearms violations, this might work out to be a good 2A case. Or am I missing key facts?

 

[drgrant]

Hell, if someone unintentionally, shoots at my house, I've lost all sympathy for him.

To stir the pot a bit, though...

How would you feel if someone had drove off the road and smashed into your house vs someone unintentionally shooting your house? Yes, I realize that any gun owner should know better. Car owners might know better too
for keeping their car on the road in a residential neighborhood.

Both were likely preventible, both were likely due to some form of negligence or another. Yet, at least in criminal law circles, we let the pedal stomping Bluehairs with the cars slide all the time, particularly if they don't kill or injure anyone. If Negligence is to be frowned upon, why do we frequently hold people to different standards?

Of course, one distinction here is the "jump to conclusions mat" problem. If it involves an evil killy gun somehow, intent is automatically assumed to be nefarious in nature... where someone flying off the road is "assumed" to not
be nefarious. Part of the problem with these things is "callibrating the douche factor. " Is the guy who had an ND in his house (that hit your house) more or less of an a**h*** than the guy that went flying around the corner while the roads were icy and put the front of his Kia into my porch? I guess something else that plays into it again too is the presumption of repeatability- oh the guy with the gun might make that mistake again so it becomes a concern, whereas the person who crashed into your house... probably won't be back anytime soon.

I'm not saying, of course, that I wouldn't be pissed if a bullet came cruising into my living room, or I found a hole in my house that had a corresponding hole in the neighbors house from where it came. The context of such discovery, however, would play a critical role in how I reacted/responded to it.

-Mike

 

[yanici]

Neighbor says he took a pot shot at house. http://www.lowellsun.com/local/ci_21782466/billerica-suspect-arrested-standoff

BILLERICA -- A SWAT team from the North Eastern Massachusetts Law Enforcement Council helped Billerica police arrest a Pinedale Avenue man Monday night after he allegedly fired a gunshot at a neighbor's home.

Police were called to 8 Pinedale Ave. about 4:40 p.m. after a neighbor at that address called police and reported that Edward Graboski, 69, fired a gunshot from a handgun at her home.

Police went to the home, but Graboski had already retreated inside and would not answer repeated telephone calls from police, or speak to officers at the scene.

Police set up a perimeter around the home and called for assistance from NEMLEC. Neighbors reported the man owned several firearms, including rifles, according to police radio broadcasts.

Police evacuated six homes near Graboski's home as a precaution, and asked businesses in the nearby 880 Plaza at 880 Boston Road to close.

Sgt. Steve Elmore set up a command post at the 880 Plaza, and the NEMLEC SWAT team took Graboski into custody without further incident about 6:14 p.m. No one was hurt.

Police said Graboski had a loaded .32-caliber revolver in his pocket when he was arrested.

He was being held Monday night on a count of assault with a dangerous weapon, and he is expected to face firearms charges as well.

He was scheduled to be arraigned Tuesday in Lowell District Court.

Follow Robert Mills on Twitter at Robert_Mills

Police are still working to confirm that a gunshot was


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fired, and trying to determine whether Graboski was licensed to have firearms.

 

[warwickben]

I just realized talking to my friend her grand ma lives on this street. I used to hang out on this street all time when she lived there still. I thought this happen in a totally different area.....