SWAT standoff in Billerica

[George D]

Red Riders are srs biznus.

Apparently so is Jack Daniels.

"After his arrest, Graboski told police that he had started drinking Jack Daniels at about 1 p.m. Graboski admitted he has had problems with his neighbor for sometime. On the day of the incident, Graboski said his neighbor came over to speak to him but couldn't remember the conversation. "

 

[midas]

'But Graboski's attorney noted that her client, a retired electrician, has lived in his home for 45 years with no history of problems until his neighbor at 5 Pinedale Ave. began invading Graboski's privacy by watching him with her binoculars.


According to court documents, Billerica police were called to 5 Pinedale Ave. for a report that Graboski had just point a gun at his neighbors. The caller alleged that 20 years ago, Graboski had shot at the caller's husband. '

Caller sounds like a complete c***.

​

 

[George D]

So we went from a man shooting a firearm at a house to a man shooting a BB gun at a tree.

 

[OfficerObie59]

Most reasonable people recognize there are different levels of culpability. Someone shooting at a deer a half mile away and the round hitting your house isn't the same as someone target shooting in their back yard with a piece of plywood as a backstop and shooting towards your house which isn't the same as a pissed neighbor intentionally shooting at your house. Each scenario has the same result, but different intent. One is an accident (with some negligence), one is retardation, the other is malicious. I've always held intent as the deciding factor in most crimes of this nature.

This is key. I still say the person who had their rights violated is the first line if "defense" with this sort of thing; if they don't believe malicious intent was there or if they believe it was an anomaly, then no police involvement is necessary.

Sure, but my understanding is the shot was fired, the police were called, then he locked himself up in the house with someone else and wouldn't talk to police. That's why SWAT was called. That's also much different than shooting a house, intentionally or unintentionally, then when the police show up coming out and saying 'yep, my bad'.

Why does it matter if someone else was in the house? Are we going to automatically assume that it's a hostage? I will never be able to justify a SWAT response, as they don't even need to exist. Call the police, yes. But to have a mechanized light infantry squad show up? Unnecessary.

Remember that one's reaction post-event is suggestive of their level of mens rea.

 

[Martlet]

So this guy got SWATTED over a BB gun?

No, he got SWATTED because he was a jackass and wouldn't talk to police when they arrived.

 

[terraformer]

Remember that one's reaction post-event is suggestive of their level of mens rea.

An assumption which leads to the adage "only guilty people invoke their 5A rights"...

 

[pastera]

So where did the .30 casing come from?

Just fell out of one of the SWAT guys pockets I guess or maybe it was struck in his tacticool boot treads?

 

[Martlet]

So not talking to police deserve SWAT treatment? Or would it be more accurate to say that they rolled SWAT because he didn't come out of the house? Considering none of the cops witnessed any wrongdoing by this man, I hope they had a warrant for his arrest. Getting arrested based off an accusation of a neighbor, not talking to cops, and not consenting to a search/seizure sounds, what's the word, unconstitutional.

But, most GOPers such as yourself have abandoned the idea of liberty. Don't forget to cash your check from the Romney campaign after you pull the lever for him.

You're right. You should be able to shoot at the neighbor's house then sit in your own telling the PD to eff off.

Like I said earlier. You live full retard. Rational people expect rational things.

 

[George D]

So where did the .30 casing come from?

Just fell out of one of the SWAT guys pockets I guess or maybe it was struck in his tacticool boot treads?

That is a good question. It could have been there for minutes or months. Even if it was a .32, why would it be there if it was from a revolver?

 

[Martlet]

Regular cops were called in by the accuser. Are you saying that mere accusations are enough cause for an arrest? Or that if you don't talk to police you should have SWAT called? Or may you believe that people have no right to refuse a search or seizure. Now if there was a warrant for bis arrest that was issued in accordance with the forth amendment, then the arrest is legit. But mechanized light infantry? How ever did this republic survive before shock troops?


Sent from my iPod touch using Tapatalk

I'm saying that it was an active situation. If the situation transpires as it was apparently reported:

-Neighbor threatened grandchildren
-Neighbor had a firearm on the porch
-Neighbor shot at the house
-Police responded and neighbor wouldn't answer the door or phone

Then I have zero problem with SWAT showing up. Play stupid games, win stupid prizes. Want to get shit faced, shoot your neighbor's house, then not explain yourself to the cops, I hope you get raided. I certainly don't want you threatening my children again, or worse.

 

[bullseye]

So, how many shots need to get fired at my house before I call the police? If I witness someone shooting at me/ my house, I am not going to go over there and ask if they are having a case of the Mondays.

You could always text him, that eliminates risk.

 

[bullseye]

So we went from a man shooting a firearm at a house to a man shooting a BB gun at a tree.

"After his arrest, Graboski told police that he had started drinking Jack Daniels at about 1 p.m. Graboski admitted he has had problems with his neighbor for sometime. On the day of the incident, Graboski said his neighbor came over to speak to him but couldn't remember the conversation.

Graboski allegedly admitted to shooting his BB pistol, which police later found on Graboski's porch. He told police he oiled the BB pistol and then shot three rounds at a bird house attached to his house. He admitted it was possible one of the rounds missed the bird house and went across the street."

Read more: http://www.lowellsun.com/breakingne...rica-gun-case-held-without-bail#ixzz29VFX968f

No, I think he was trying to shoot one of the birds eyes out, this will play out well. Will Martha step and actually prosecute this herself? One has to wonder!

 

[Martlet]

The first three things on your list are accusations. Are you okay with SWAT response based on mere accusation and no warrant?


Sent from my iPod touch using Tapatalk

I was pretty clear with what I'm OK with. In fact, "zero problem" sums it up. Any rational person would agree with my statement as posted. If you don't, you live in a world of full retard.

 

[terraformer]

http://www.lowellsun.com/breakingnews/ci_21784756/suspect-billerica-gun-case-held-without-bail

Lots of info in this story.

 

[Martlet]

Okay. I just had to make sure that nothing was getting lost in translation. You are a statist progressive and that's okay. I just wanted to be sure.




Sent from my iPod touch using Tapatalk

You're a full retard anarchist. I just wanted to be sure.

 

[pastera]

I was pretty clear with what I'm OK with. In fact, "zero problem" sums it up. Any rational person would agree with my statement as posted. If you don't, you live in a world of full retard.

Bullshit argument - you are calling anyone who disagrees with you irrational.

They easily could have gone for a warrant given the accusations, that they didn't show they felt they have the power of the judiciary - Judge, jury and executioner (but only if you are a dog)

As far as living in a world of full retard, you are right. I live in Mass with a bunch of people like yourself. That's about as retard as it gets.

 

[ISOTOX]

Did SWAT make entry to the house or did they work on a peaceful solution to the problem? I don't think the article says anything about a shoot out. Just saying....

From my perspective, I wouldn't want to just walk up to the door and ask a guy, who may or may not be a little off reservation, if he would mind fixing his neighbor's siding since he blew a slug through it. Even as a cop, if someone launches a round at my house I'm grabbing my wife, kid, and carbine and calling it in!

I understand the sentiment if wanting to preserve rights... I get it. However, LE isn't going to ignore a call for help (which existed here, this was not police initiated) and they are certainly not going to show up unprepared for the worst. All I see in the article is "guy goes a little crazy, shoots at neighbor's house, barricades himself and eventually surrenders."

Some of these posters really should step back a minute and look a both sides of the situation (not story) as it stood at the scene. And perhaps do a little reading on MGLs regarding assault and felony rights of arrest. *off soapbox*

Makes sence to me.....

 

[HTRN]

http://www.lowellsun.com/breakingnews/ci_21784756/suspect-billerica-gun-case-held-without-bail

Lots of info in this story.

And it seems there is still a ton missing.

As everyone knows, a problem neighbor can be pure hell. We have the showcase here at NES with red, and I have good friends that live across town and they are plagued with these crazies calling the police, harassing them and it sounds in this Billerica case like this guy was being stalked.

It sounds like he PSGWSP here, but I really empathize if he has been harassed by this neighbor for so long.


And just so we're clear: http://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/ad-hominem

 

[Palladin]

I called it. Knew there had to be a great story with this one.

I love these 'out yourself' threads!!

 

[Timber]

So an old man with a BB gun who's neighbors hated him got SWATed? Is that what all this hub bub was about? When I was a kid old Mr. Callahan used to shoot his bb gun at us all the time whenever we went near his property. Our parents didn't exactly encourage him, but they didn't exactly discourage him either. I think maybe lighting his deck on fire prior to the bb gun coming out might have had some influence on our parents letting him shoot at us with impunity, but no one ever called the cops.

 

[Martlet]

Bullshit argument - you are calling anyone who disagrees with you irrational.

They easily could have gone for a warrant given the accusations, that they didn't show they felt they have the power of the judiciary - Judge, jury and executioner (but only if you are a dog)

As far as living in a world of full retard, you are right. I live in Mass with a bunch of people like yourself. That's about as retard as it gets.

I'm calling anyone who is irrational irrational. You don't need a warrant in an active shooter situation, nor should you need one.

 

[xtry51]

I'm calling anyone who is irrational irrational. You don't need a warrant in an active shooter situation, nor should you need one.

Apparently you missed the part where it was a BB gun, with one shot fired, at a tree.

 

[Martlet]

Apparently you missed the part where it was a BB gun, with one shot fired, at a tree.

Yeah. Too bad he didn't come out and explain that to the cops. He probably wouldn't be in jail.

 

[xtry51]

Yeah. Too bad he didn't come out and explain that to the cops. He probably wouldn't be in jail.

No problem with him getting arrested. I'd have a real problem if there was no real questioning of what actually happened to confirm why they were there and if they went in without a warrant after they found out it was a BB gun.

You're premise that we should just believe the complaining witness and call SWAT from the get go is, to say the least, a frightening standard. There is nothing stopping a moonbat from using this tactic on any gun owner they don't like.

 

[Martlet]

No problem with him getting arrested. I'd have a real problem if there was no real questioning of what actually happened to confirm why they were there and if they went in without a warrant after they found out it was a BB gun.

I'd have an issue with that, too. My comments are based on the information given. That said, I haven't seen where it said they went in at all. I think one report said the made contact with him, and he came along peacefully. I took that to mean he came outside and gave up.

 

[HTRN]

So an old man with a BB gun who's neighbors hated him got SWATed? Is that what all this hub bub was about? When I was a kid old Mr. Callahan used to shoot his bb gun at us all the time whenever we went near his property. Our parents didn't exactly encourage him, but they didn't exactly discourage him either. I think maybe lighting his deck on fire prior to the bb gun coming out might have had some influence on our parents letting him shoot at us with impunity, but no one ever called the cops.

It seems to me that I'd get the riot act read to me for giving some neighbor the reason to shoot his bb gun at me.

 

[xtry51]

Forget neighbors, who didn't have BB gun fights?

Two pumps....
That was more than two pumps!

 

[HTRN]

Forget neighbors, who didn't have BB gun fights?

Two pumps....
That was more than two pumps!

yep!

 

[pastera]

I'm calling anyone who is irrational irrational. You don't need a warrant in an active shooter situation, nor should you need one.

Where was the evidence of an active shooter? The only evidence they had was the guys admission that he shot his BB gun.

 

[Timber]

It seems to me that I'd get the riot act read to me for giving some neighbor the reason to shoot his bb gun at me.

Oh we definitely got in a lot of trouble at home when things like this were discovered or reported to our parents, but you know... we were different. We played outside. It's easier to keep track of kids these days when their plugged into computer or television screen all the time.