Stupid things gun counter clerks say

[Len-2A Training]

Absolutely agreed.

Saying it "is law" [STRIKE=undefined]makes[/STRIKE] CONFIRMS them [STRIKE=undefined]sound[/STRIKE] AS ignorant.

The problem is that low level clerks are told the policy, and then start making stuff up to fill in the blanks.

FIFY

I wonder if their management actually tells them that it is the law rather than giving their low level employees a complex story of why they do that.

Bull sh** !

Like it or not, it's not BS in this case. Jim explained to me what transpired at his shop after one major terrorist event . . . the perp did business at his shop. Nobody wants that kind of publicity, nobody! It's not that I think this is the best solution, but I understand his solution.

 

[OfficerObie59]

My buddy was told that it was illegal to carry pre-ban mags in a post-ban Glock by Outback Arms.

I had a bad experience there about a year ago, and haven't been back despite it being walking distance from my house.

Long story short, I was out of the country last winter with limited cellphone service. Bought a flintlock black power Kentucky rifle for my brother as a gift to be given at a family gathering a couple days after I got back. Dealer in Mississippi only said he'd send it to Massachusetts if it went to an FFL. I called Outback who agreed to receive it.

When I got home, they charged me $40 to do a "transfer"...on a black powder flintlock--essentially to take it off the truck and hand it to me. Many shops don't even charge that much when a NICS and a MIRCS check is involved.

Granted, totally my fault for not clarifying the deal beforehand. But I still thought it was a shitty move.

 

[olegZHA]

The guy at Dick's who told me that the .44 Magnum could only be used in a rifle is a good example.

 

[Nickle]

The thing is, I wasn't being a dick trying to drive his price down. I wanted to give him my money because I like the guy and want him to be successful.

And guys like you I'm totally OK with. That's clear from the way you said that.

It's OK to ask, I get that all the time at shows. Sometimes I do it, sometimes I don't, sometimes we meet half way.

There's never really any harm in asking. Especially politely.

But, it's when they're real arrogant ***holes about it that I know I really don't want their business. I'll usually make maybe $20 profit off them in the next year, and they'll cost $2,000 worth of grief. Just not worth it. I won't budge on price, the dopey idiots stand there and start arguing why I ought to give them their deal, usually losing money on it. 99% of the time, have to tell them to move on. And, it isn't just me, almost nobody will sell to them. Glad I only get 2-3 of them every year.

Though I will tell you, sometimes I go out of my way to bend those guys over, really hard. They deserve it, every time. They give good people a bad name.

 

[Apathesis]

I'm not sure what the sadder part of this story is, the poor woman getting talked into buying too much gun, or you buying a S&W 39-2.

Yeah, owning the first double-action pistol made is a sad decision. :/

I'm glad to own a piece of history.

 

[KBCraig]

A real problem for small dealers is that they often cannot get unregulated (non-FFL) items for much less than the individual consumer can.

I know, for example, that a small/medium gunshop cannot get reloading supplies for much less than the "unconnected" can on powdervalleyinc.com or wideners.com (although even today, the real competition is "who has the stuff" rather than "who has it cheapest", so shops can currently sell powder at a decent margin). Ditto for Leupold scopes. It's even true with guns, but the regulatory issues and transfer fees propping up shops. You don't get the "tip top secret prices ordinary people can't even see" unless you are very big or well established and in a closed buying group.

For ammo and reloading supplies, the problem for the small shop isn't the difference between wholesale price for the small shop and the major retailer isn't nearly as much of a factor, as is the HAZMAT shipping fee BS.

The LGS who orders one case of powder is going to pay the same HAZMAT fee as the big shop that orders a truck load. The Mega shops that get truckloads delivered to their central warehouse and then distribute to individual stores via their own trucks is obviously even better off when it comes to spreading out the charge.

 

[Nickle]

Nickle, who told you that the better defense loads for the .45acp are usually 185 gr. JHP?

Actually, it's old school information. I'm sure something better is out there now.

230 gr JHP's weren't available until a few years ago. 185 gr loads usually have higher energy than 230 gr anyways (at least used to), and besides 185 JHP were available, 230 JHP weren't, just FMJ. That part I know has changed, don't know about normal commercial ammo, as I don't use it or buy it.

Of course, if someone tries to tell me an FMJ bullet works better on soft targets (humans) than a JHP, try away.

To me, it's irrelevant, as the 1911 and I don't get along. It sure isn't the cartridge, love my 1917.

Looking to get a 10mm shortly anyways, just not high priority yet.

 

[olegZHA]

Why is there so much misinformation when information is easy to find?

Because my first google search must be right....or why else would it be first? -
ZHA

 

[Love Machine]

Because my first google search must be right....or why else would it be first? -
ZHA

Ha!

Speaking of unrelated things, thanks for letting me handle your CZ-52 on display the other day.

 

[olegZHA]

Ha!

Speaking of unrelated things, thanks for letting me handle your CZ-52 on display the other day.

No problem! Thanks for visiting! Stay safe!
ZHA

 

[Queen Bee]

I gotta get around to visiting ZHA, sometime now that i live closer

 

[ScottS]

Yeah, owning the first double-action pistol made is a sad decision. :/

I'm glad to own a piece of history.

Hahaha...wat?

I think a lot of people might have something to say about that, including the good folks at Walther.

 

[Tim L]

That bs is worse than quoting laws that don't exist.

FIFY

I wonder if their management actually tells them that it is the law rather than giving their low level employees a complex story of why they do that.

Quoting policies as if they were laws twice is BullS**t ! I don't care what Jim says, his people lied . I won't do business with them.Trying to explain their dishonesty as fighting terror make me dislike them even more.


Like it or not, it's not BS in this case. Jim explained to me what transpired at his shop after one major terrorist event . . . the perp did business at his shop. Nobody wants that kind of publicity, nobody! It's not that I think this is the best solution, but I understand his solution.

 

[Rob Boudrie]

The LGS who orders one case of powder is going to pay the same HAZMAT fee as the big shop that orders a truck load. The Mega shops that get truckloads delivered to their central warehouse and then distribute to individual stores via their own trucks is obviously even better off when it comes to spreading out the charge.

Or the independent shop that orders from Beikirch's in East Rochester NY, or one of the regional Jerrys Sports warehouses and have a big enough order for delivery by company truck. The problem is both see to always be out of the good stuff in times of shortage.

 

[mark056]

Yeah, owning the first American made double-action pistol made is a sad decision. :/ I'm glad to own a piece of history.

FIFY

Also one of the best looking handguns ever made by S&W (designed by Joe Norman) and the first DA 9mm to be issued to a major law enforcement agency: The Illinois State Police circa 1967.

For many one of the best in terms of ergonomics and point ability.

To each his own realizing that there is no accounting for taste or ignorance. There has been significant interest in the M39 lately and prices are starting to climb.

 

[Mr Weebles]

I've been told "that's too heavy for a little thing like you to carry" and tries to talk me into a small gun with lots of recoil. So I took my business somewhere else. Lost a sale.

I'm not sure what the sadder part of this story is, the poor woman getting talked into buying too much gun, or you buying a S&W 39-2.

One of the finest 9mm semiauto handguns of its time? Yeah, buying it was a bad choice.

 

[ScottS]

One of the finest 9mm semiauto handguns of its time?

Weebs, Weebs, Weebs....It's like finding out your friend got bitten by one of the zombies on TWD. Now what?

I just don't know what to do...

 

[mark056]

Uh Scott S nothing good will come of your snarky comments regarding the M39. Please cease and desist and stick to topics that you can present intelligent and informed opinion. We all know the cons of the pistol but we love them anyway. No other pistol has ever pointed and shot and felt better in my hand than the M39 and i own or have owned Sigs, Colts, S&Ws, Brownings and Rugers. When I carry a 9mm its usually an M39.

I'm not the only one who has commented in its ergonomics.

 

[Boghog1]

my 639 it was a great shooter

 

[Len-2A Training]

I bought my S&W 39-2 back in the late 1970s. Our PD was switching over from revolvers and the chief asked us to bring our 9s if we had them to qualify with them as well as the revolvers (reserve POs back then had to buy their own guns, no equipment was supplied by the PD). It was the 3rd time I ever shot that gun and my qual score was 95% with the 39-2. It's a pleasant shooting gun and even my Wife enjoyed shooting it. It is "older technology" today but there certainly is nothing inherently wrong with that design.

 

[Boghog1]

I bumped into the guy I sold mine to last year and he couldn't be more pleased with the purchase so he told me he recently just bought another one. Mind you I sold him the pistol about 25 years ago and hadn't seen him since

 

[ScottS]

I can't be the only guy who owned one and thought it was truly awful.

I know I'm not, because it was an unsuccessful design they changed multiple times before they finally discontinued it. That should say something. Any design where you remove the rear sight to disable the magazine disconnect ought to be a warning. Even the Illinois cops dumped it as soon as they could.

Horrible ergonomics (think table leg) coupled with an awful trigger, in both DA and SA. It was the first gun I ever sold, and one of the few I sold at a (huge) loss. Ugh.

What's really funny is a throw-away one-line joke I made has completely derailed this thread (mostly because of Mark's standard "abused child" defense of, well, pretty much everything). I swear, sometimes the ADD of this group surprises even me.

 

[warwickben]

I got a walther p38 and s&w m39 passed down and a Remington sportsmen 58 . Since I was always helping my grand ma out . She gave me the shotgun and told me to pick one pistol for me and my older brother get the other.

Take a wild guess which gun I took .
.
.











Ac45 p38 lol.

 

[mark056]

I can't be the only guy who owned one and thought it was truly awful. I know I'm not, because it was an unsuccessful design they changed multiple times before they finally discontinued it. That should say something. Any design where you remove the rear sight to disable the magazine disconnect ought to be a warning. Even the Illinois cops dumped it as soon as they could. Horrible ergonomics (think table leg) coupled with an awful trigger, in both DA and SA. It was the first gun I ever sold, and one of the few I sold at a (huge) loss. Ugh. What's really funny is a throw-away one-line joke I made has completely derailed this thread (mostly because of Mark's standard "abused child" defense of, well, pretty much everything). I swear, sometimes the ADD of this group surprises even me.

Overlooking and not quite understanding "Mark's abused child defense" let me give you a brief history of the M39. I certainly wasn't disrespectful to you but in your latest post you have some incorrect information. Rather than drop it, you decided to carry the "joke" on and your pathetic sense of humor backfired and I became a convenient target. Now you are apparently are miffed and rather than just let the matter drop, have decided to not only make me the focus of your ire but perpetrate your lack of knowledge about this pistol.

First, the DA/SA trigger system is not good. But then neither was the Walther P38's of which it was a direct copy. That is one of the cons. You either adapt and overcome to it or you don't. You couldn't, fair enough.

Second the ISP didn't drop the gun as soon as it could. Nothing could be farther from the truth. That's poor or non existent research on your part. Sgt. Louis Seamans was tasked by the ISP to find one gun that could be carried 24 hours a day because at the time ISP Troopers had to be armed 24 hours a day on and off duty. After testing all the guns of the day, he chose the M39 which had been commercially available since the middle 1950's. Concurrent with this, the ISP adopted a 100 grain Winchester PowerPoint. Once issued, one of the biggest problems was feeding and broken extractors. This brought about improved extractors and feed ramp and the 39-2 and in turn further refinements in the trigger and a firing pin retention as well as other improvements in the Second Generation as well as materials: 439 aluminum frame, 538 steel frame, and 639 stainless frame. From this evolved the famous Third Gen Guns. At each juncture the ISP used S&W metal pistols until they got swept up in the polymer striker fired craze and finally switched to Glocks only a few years ago. An offshoot of the M39 was the M59 which originally a Navy project and was the first wundernine.

With regard to the mag safety, it is a controversial feature. Disconnect a safety device? Experts say no from a litigation standpoint. One prolific pundit here says it doesn't matter. Massad Ayoob has documented cases where ISP Troopers and other LEOs disconnected their mags during a gun grab with a perp rendering the gun inert thus allowing them to prevail.

Now as you can probably tell I collect M39s. The only pistol I seriously collect and there are enough variations to make them interesting.

Without appearing to be unkind or disrespectful and to get this thread back on track we might all pause to reflect that misinformation and ignorance is just as rampant among gun owners as gun sellers and today's customer might be tomorrow's clerk.

Now the M39 has its detractors and if it is not the pistol for you Scott I get it, but if you are all butt hurt since you mentioned me by name, kindly take it off the boards and PM me. Thank you.

 

[frenchman]

. It is "older technology" today but there certainly is nothing inherently wrong with that design.

Noah's ark was old technology. The titanic was a modern design. Think about it.

 

[Len-2A Training]

Noah's ark was old technology. The titanic was a modern design. Think about it.

No disagreement here!

People worship the plastic gun by Glock these days, just because . . . and that isn't new technology anymore either!

 

[Billsail]

The 39 and its descendants are fine underrated firearms! The plastic people need to give one a try.

 

[FrugalFannie]

What about buying a long gun?

Federally, yes, same thing. State laws may vary, but they are still only applicable in that state. Much as politicians in MA, NY and NJ wish it was otherwise, their laws do not apply in NH, VT and PA.

https://www.atf.gov/file/58686/download

It's not a law to check ID's to see if a person from another state has to have a license or not. The ATF has no business going after a shop owner in another state who legally sold ammo.
If the gun shop asks for ID it's the gun shop owners policy and there is no legal recourse. I've also never been asked for an ID when buying ammo at shooters or anywhere else in the U.S. for that matter.

I didn't say it was a law. I said this is what happened to Shooter's Outpost. No idea when you last shopped at Shooter's but when I lived in MA and shopped there EVERY WEEK for ammo, I got ID'd. I worked there for a few months and the cashiers were supposed to ID every ammo purchase unless the person was also buying a gun (because then that person had already been ID'd and if MA res LTC/FID verified).

 

[FrugalFannie]

What about buying a long gun?

Federally, yes, same thing. State laws may vary, but they are still only applicable in that state. Much as politicians in MA, NY and NJ wish it was otherwise, their laws do not apply in NH, VT and PA.

https://www.atf.gov/file/58686/download

Bull sh** !

Not BS. The person who resides in MA and goes to NH has every right to buy ammo. NH law applies to things and people in NH. When that person then crosses back to MA, they are now illegally possessing ammo in the commiewealth. And the ATF, if that person commits an act of violence with a gun, finds out the person was sold ammo from a NH FFL will be up their orifices and in their crevices with a serious magnifier.

 

[peterthefish]

Not BS. The person who resides in MA and goes to NH has every right to buy ammo. NH law applies to things and people in NH. When that person then crosses back to MA, they are now illegally possessing ammo in the commiewealth. And the ATF, if that person commits an act of violence with a gun, finds out the person was sold ammo from a NH FFL will be up their orifices and in their crevices with a serious magnifier.

Nope. Not even close. They might get unwanted attention, and it's their right to avoid the possibility of that at the expense of potentially pissing off (potential) customers - like when the clerk insists that someone with an RI license needs an FID to buy ammo.

But the ATF getting up their ass for lawful ammo sales? Nope.