If you enjoy the forum please consider supporting it by signing up for a NES Membership The benefits pay for the membership many times over.
Be sure to enter the NES/MFS May Giveaway ***Canik METE SFX***
But which is which!Ar15, you can use the Bolt Catch Release or the charging handle for reloading. Is this the same thing as the Slide Release or Power rack method?
Exactly my point. I train with hitting the slide release and the bolt catch release. I am up shit creek if I have to use any of these tools. Lucky, I am a member of the USCCABut which is which!
MORE HOGWASH and BSAh, and there it is. The “if you haven’t been in combat …” crap.
Once again, just bald assertion, with no facts to support it. You claim that pulling back the slide is more error prone. OK, fine. Now provide some evidence to support that assertion. Have you done a random study, assigned some subjects to do it one way, some to do it another, trained them for a year, then put them under stress and counted the screwups for each technique? No, you haven’t.
Is the stress level of a competition anywhere near combat? I’m sure it’s not. But it is stress. Same with force on force.
I’ve watched thousands of shooters go through courses of fire. Some used the slide stop, some pulled back the slide. The only screw ups I ever saw were on a cold day when the shooter’s hands slipped off the slide while trying to pull it back.
Is the slide stop on some guns small enough that pulling back might be the better option? Sure, the standard Glock slide stop is a good example.
Lol, all the same.I suspect he is referring to the folks who claim it is a slide stop, not a slide release, and that using it ”will get you killed in the street”, that real operators pull back on the slide instead.
What’s your combat background? Please enlighten me.Hogwash. If you think IDPA and USPSA is stressfull, you have a lot to learn about gunfighting.
One a stress scale between zero and 100 (combat) competition is about a 2.
Talk to me after you have been in combat.
Stress from Competition - 2/100. (You ain't seen nottin yet!)What’s your combat background? Please enlighten me.
Competition absolutely induces stressors that can cause the exact errors being talked about. And actually oftentimes exaggerate the most critical stressor involved in manual of arms errors: time. Not all combat engagements involve the time stressor like competition does.
Don’t question him. He’s a real deal civilian salesman/reserve police officer/author of the self-proclaimed “best and most complete book of defensive shooting”I suspect he is referring to the folks who claim it is a slide stop, not a slide release, and that using it ”will get you killed in the street”, that real operators pull back on the slide instead.
You didn’t answer my question. What is your experience in combat/lethal force encounters?Stress from Competition - 2/100. (You ain't seen nottin yet!)
Stress from lethal force encounters - 100/100
1) I have never claimed manual dexterity is not lost.MORE HOGWASH and BS
Funny, you have no facts whatsoever as to the effects of reduced manual dexterity and reduced cognitive ability under the REAL stress of a lethal gunfight, yet you demand facts (that have already been stated. Your experiences in training classes, force-on-force and competition have NO BEARING WHATSOEVER on the reality of lethal encounters. NONE.
Do I need to make it any bolder, larger or more colorful????
can i just ask one thing.1) I have never claimed manual dexterity is not lost.
2) you claim that hitting the slide stop requires more manual dexterity that a) pulling the trigger, b) hitting the magazine release, or c) pulling back on the slide. That is your assertion, not mine, so it is up to you to provide evidence to support that assertion. If you are going to claim that one is more reliable than the other, that one requires more manual dexterity than the other, then you need to provide evidence. Using the slide stop is faster. Both techniques work. So pick one.
3) stress is stress. Yes, the amount of stress in combat is far, far greater than competition. But when training shooters, we can’t put them into a deadly encounter. Some stress is better than no stress. If we don’t put them under some stress than all we are doing on the range is kata without ever doing any sparring. Putting people under some stress while shooting to the point where their handgun manipulations are done without thinking is a good thing. More than a few special forces types compete in USPSA.
Finally, you can use all the caps and red and large font. You can shout all you want. All that shows is that you have run out of arguments for your position.
For the vast majority of combat, nothing. But David went and started claiming things about the stress of combat.can i just ask one thing.
what in the world you good people are talking about and what a real world military combat got to do with stupid pistols and their slide stops?
Many old school Kimbers were good.better off buying a kimber
Agreed. My Gen 1 Kimber were good. I got the impression that the Gen 2, with the Swartz style safety, were a dumpster fire, but I have no direct experience with them.Many old school Kimbers were good.
They got started in the Chip McCormack Factory, that custom make decent 1911 parts.
But with many companies they became more concerned with profit than quality control.
Do I need to make it any bolder, larger or more colorful????
Hilton Yam posted his range test video. He bought two Prodigy’s from a dealer, so these are not hand-picked samples. His 4 1/4“ gun was decent, 5” not so much.
View: https://youtu.be/v5f3mtxPAEM
Yeah, they are fixable. In his previous video he said that he thought the slide, frame, and barrel are top notch.i did not look into details - was there any analysis of how much effort it would be to fix all the issues on those guns and malfunctions he indicated? if they are fixable?
it would be interesting to find out. i am not in the market for any of that neither, but it is just a peculiar topic, and was an interesting gun i have heard of a lot.If I was in the market for a 2011, I would skip the Prodigy. I would pony up the $$$ for a higher end gun. Unreliable guns are, ar best, a pain in the backside.
I expect he will do another video showing how he fixed both guns, including adding a few of the parts that he sells, like his own slide stop.
You didn’t answer my question. What is your experience in combat/lethal force encounters?
My Shadow 2 has also been just about perfect. I changed some springs and now have a 2 lb SA trigger. DA trigger around 6 lbs.it would be interesting to find out. i am not in the market for any of that neither, but it is just a peculiar topic, and was an interesting gun i have heard of a lot.
pity that it is having issues as is. a cz shadow 2 is in the same price range, and at least my sample was pretty damn perfect, all functions wise. and after cajunization it is totally perfect.
Hilton reworked the 5" gun. He put $400 of parts into the gun. With the amount of labor he did, it was basically the cost of a Staccato P. IMO, it would be a better deal to just bite the bullet and get a Staccato instead.
View: https://youtu.be/s7d2mNIW3bE
2011s in general are stupid money- the entire ecosystem involves lighting cash on fire.My problem with stacatto is that I really want XC but it costs stupid money.
If you start with the Prodigy and then pay a gunsmith to fix it, you are at the same price as a Staccato.My problem with stacatto is that I really want XC but it costs stupid money.
Yeah, I would rather just continue to shoot my cz.If you start with the Prodigy and then pay a gunsmith to fix it, you are at the same price as a Staccato.