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Springfield Armory 1911 DS Prodigy

Ar15, you can use the Bolt Catch Release or the charging handle for reloading. Is this the same thing as the Slide Release or Power rack method?
 
M1911 said:
Ah, and there it is. The “if you haven’t been in combat …” crap.

Once again, just bald assertion, with no facts to support it. You claim that pulling back the slide is more error prone. OK, fine. Now provide some evidence to support that assertion. Have you done a random study, assigned some subjects to do it one way, some to do it another, trained them for a year, then put them under stress and counted the screwups for each technique? No, you haven’t.

Is the stress level of a competition anywhere near combat? I’m sure it’s not. But it is stress. Same with force on force.

I’ve watched thousands of shooters go through courses of fire. Some used the slide stop, some pulled back the slide. The only screw ups I ever saw were on a cold day when the shooter’s hands slipped off the slide while trying to pull it back.

Is the slide stop on some guns small enough that pulling back might be the better option? Sure, the standard Glock slide stop is a good example.
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MORE HOGWASH and BS

Funny, you have no facts whatsoever as to the effects of reduced manual dexterity and reduced cognitive ability under the REAL stress of a lethal gunfight, yet you demand facts (that have already been stated. Your experiences in training classes, force-on-force and competition have NO BEARING WHATSOEVER on the reality of lethal encounters. NONE.

Do I need to make it any bolder, larger or more colorful????
 
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M1911 said:
I suspect he is referring to the folks who claim it is a slide stop, not a slide release, and that using it ”will get you killed in the street”, that real operators pull back on the slide instead.
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Lol, all the same.

Was jaut curious if it was a 2011 operator thing.
 
Davidk said:
Hogwash. If you think IDPA and USPSA is stressfull, you have a lot to learn about gunfighting.

One a stress scale between zero and 100 (combat) competition is about a 2.
Talk to me after you have been in combat.
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What’s your combat background? Please enlighten me.

Competition absolutely induces stressors that can cause the exact errors being talked about. And actually oftentimes exaggerate the most critical stressor involved in manual of arms errors: time. Not all combat engagements involve the time stressor like competition does.
 
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PappyM3 said:
What’s your combat background? Please enlighten me.

Competition absolutely induces stressors that can cause the exact errors being talked about. And actually oftentimes exaggerate the most critical stressor involved in manual of arms errors: time. Not all combat engagements involve the time stressor like competition does.
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Stress from Competition - 2/100. (You ain't seen nottin yet!)
Stress from lethal force encounters - 100/100
 
M1911 said:
I suspect he is referring to the folks who claim it is a slide stop, not a slide release, and that using it ”will get you killed in the street”, that real operators pull back on the slide instead.
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Don’t question him. He’s a real deal civilian salesman/reserve police officer/author of the self-proclaimed “best and most complete book of defensive shooting”
 
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Davidk said:
MORE HOGWASH and BS

Funny, you have no facts whatsoever as to the effects of reduced manual dexterity and reduced cognitive ability under the REAL stress of a lethal gunfight, yet you demand facts (that have already been stated. Your experiences in training classes, force-on-force and competition have NO BEARING WHATSOEVER on the reality of lethal encounters. NONE.

Do I need to make it any bolder, larger or more colorful????
Click to expand...
1) I have never claimed manual dexterity is not lost.

2) you claim that hitting the slide stop requires more manual dexterity than a) pulling the trigger, b) hitting the magazine release, or c) pulling back on the slide. That is your assertion, not mine, so it is up to you to provide evidence to support that assertion. If you are going to claim that one is more reliable than the other, that one requires more manual dexterity than the other, then you need to provide evidence. Using the slide stop is faster. Both techniques work. So pick one.

3) stress is stress. Yes, the amount of stress in combat is far, far greater than competition. But when training shooters, we can’t put them into a deadly encounter. Some stress is better than no stress. If we don’t put them under some stress than all we are doing on the range is kata without ever doing any sparring. Putting people under some stress while shooting to the point where their handgun manipulations are done without thinking is a good thing. More than a few special forces types compete in USPSA.

Finally, you can use all the caps and red and large font. You can shout all you want. All that shows is that you have run out of arguments for your position.
 
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M1911 said:
1) I have never claimed manual dexterity is not lost.

2) you claim that hitting the slide stop requires more manual dexterity that a) pulling the trigger, b) hitting the magazine release, or c) pulling back on the slide. That is your assertion, not mine, so it is up to you to provide evidence to support that assertion. If you are going to claim that one is more reliable than the other, that one requires more manual dexterity than the other, then you need to provide evidence. Using the slide stop is faster. Both techniques work. So pick one.

3) stress is stress. Yes, the amount of stress in combat is far, far greater than competition. But when training shooters, we can’t put them into a deadly encounter. Some stress is better than no stress. If we don’t put them under some stress than all we are doing on the range is kata without ever doing any sparring. Putting people under some stress while shooting to the point where their handgun manipulations are done without thinking is a good thing. More than a few special forces types compete in USPSA.

Finally, you can use all the caps and red and large font. You can shout all you want. All that shows is that you have run out of arguments for your position.
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can i just ask one thing.
what in the world you good people are talking about and what a real world military combat got to do with stupid pistols and their slide stops?
 
I have only spoke to one USPSA competitor about what was more stressful, competitions or combat. He said he felt more stress during competitions. And more relaxed and clear headed during actual combat. Sample of one doesn't mean much, but that all we got so far.

I'm looking forward to the springfield 2011. I think it will be a great way for someone to get a 2011, but isn't planning on putting huge #s thru the gun
 
northframingham said:
Many old school Kimbers were good.

They got started in the Chip McCormack Factory, that custom make decent 1911 parts.

But with many companies they became more concerned with profit than quality control.
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Agreed. My Gen 1 Kimber were good. I got the impression that the Gen 2, with the Swartz style safety, were a dumpster fire, but I have no direct experience with them.
 
M1911 said:
Hilton Yam posted his range test video. He bought two Prodigy’s from a dealer, so these are not hand-picked samples. His 4 1/4“ gun was decent, 5” not so much.


View: https://youtu.be/v5f3mtxPAEM
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i did not look into details - was there any analysis of how much effort it would be to fix all the issues on those guns and malfunctions he indicated? if they are fixable?
 
paul73 said:
i did not look into details - was there any analysis of how much effort it would be to fix all the issues on those guns and malfunctions he indicated? if they are fixable?
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Yeah, they are fixable. In his previous video he said that he thought the slide, frame, and barrel are top notch.

His 4 1/“ gun needs extractor work. He’s not yet clear whether he can fix the existing extractor or whether he needs to replace it. Installing and tuning an extractor is something a good 1911 gun plumber like Greg Derr can do in his sleep for short dollars. Extractors are cheap, under $40. So definitely under $150 with labor, maybe more like $100?

His 5” gun needs more work. It’s under sprung, so needs a stronger recoil spring (cheap, easy fix). The disconnector Is hanging up on the bottom of the slide, slowing down the slide while it is closing. It wasn’t clear to me if he can fix the existing MIM part or whether he’s just going to replace it. The trigger pull in his 5” gun is crap. It isn’t clear to me whether he is going to do a trigger job on the MIM hammer and sear or replace them.

He doesn’t like the slide stop in either gun. They are sort of recessed into the frame and not proud of the frame like on a standard 1911. He’s going to replace those. That seems to be a personal taste thing.

If you wanted to replace all the MIM parts, I’m guessing you would be better off just buying a Stacatto in the first place. As a frame of reference, his 5” gun had 5 malfunctions in the first 150 rounds. His Stacatto P had 2 malfunctions in the first 2000+ rounds. Of course, the Prodigy is a $1,500 gun while the Stacatto is a $2,500 gun.

If I was in the market for a 2011, I would skip the Prodigy. I would pony up the $$$ for a higher end gun. Unreliable guns are, at best, a pain in the backside.

I expect he will do another video showing how he fixed both guns, including adding a few of the parts that he sells, like his own slide stop.
 
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M1911 said:
If I was in the market for a 2011, I would skip the Prodigy. I would pony up the $$$ for a higher end gun. Unreliable guns are, ar best, a pain in the backside.

I expect he will do another video showing how he fixed both guns, including adding a few of the parts that he sells, like his own slide stop.
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it would be interesting to find out. i am not in the market for any of that neither, but it is just a peculiar topic, and was an interesting gun i have heard of a lot.
pity that it is having issues as is. a cz shadow 2 is in the same price range, and at least my sample was pretty damn perfect, all functions wise. and after cajunization it is totally perfect.
 
paul73 said:
it would be interesting to find out. i am not in the market for any of that neither, but it is just a peculiar topic, and was an interesting gun i have heard of a lot.
pity that it is having issues as is. a cz shadow 2 is in the same price range, and at least my sample was pretty damn perfect, all functions wise. and after cajunization it is totally perfect.
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My Shadow 2 has also been just about perfect. I changed some springs and now have a 2 lb SA trigger. DA trigger around 6 lbs.

His experience is about what I was expecting. 1911/2011s are typically more finicky than a CZ-75.
 
I was lucky to pick up C2 and NightHawk Counselor for pretty cheap. All that means is I cannot buy anything until 2026. The only thing I am allowed to buy is ammo.
 

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