Smooth bore vs Rifled 12 ga ????

[mac67]

I recently had a conversation with an older gentleman about 12 Ga Slug gun's. He has ALOT of first hand knowledge concerning all types of firearms. He was explaining to me that the accurancy of a rifled shotgun barrel is more myth than fact. That a smooth bore w/quality ammo is just as accurate within 100 yard.

He explained that a Foster slug starts it rotation IN the barrel, where as a Sabot starts it's limited rotation after it LEAVES the barrel because the plastic case does not truely engage the rifling. Thus, true rifled flight of the projectile is myth.

He went on to tell me that he has hole-on-hole accurancy w/12 ga Brenneke slugs, off-hand @ 75 yards (Smooth bore,open sight)

What do you think ??

 

[JohnFH]

Not surprised, I get good groups at 50 yards with cheap Remington slugs out of a Mossberg 500.

I have never tried to shoot slugs for pure accuracy, (throw up a 3" orange spot at 50, hit it 3 times, good for my hunting) so I haven't found the "perfect load", but have gotten enough accuracy to make me think it is possible.

 

[bpm990d]

I would look at this webpage: American Slug Shooters.

My understanding was that the rifled barrels were much more accurate, but that is only anecdotal. No personal experience with rifled shotgun barrels at all.

B

 

[msdamato]

I have a Mossberg 500 with a rifled barrel, my father has the same with a smooth barrel. We had the same question/argumemt when I bought mine last year.

The results (if I remember correctly) were something like this, Brenneke slugs through the smooth bore and fusion something's in my rifled.

50yds - no difference hole on hole
75yds - no difference 2" groups
100 yds smooth 3-4in groups
100 yds rifled 2" groups
125 yds smooth 5" groups
125 yds rifled 2" groups
150 yds smooth 8-10" groups
150 yds rifled 3-4" groups

As you can see the smooth bore falls apart after 100 yds while the rifled barrel keeps its accuracy. But how much power is left at long range with either. I'm a little more comfortable taking a 100 yard shot with my rifled barrel, but at the same time I've never had a shot more than 75 yards in mass at a deer. Also the rifled slugs are significantly more expensive. Mine was part of the combo deal at DICKS otherwise I don't think I would have sought the rifled barrel out.

 

[travis]

As general rule rifling will make a solid projectile spin thus increasing accuracy. Some slugs are not as tight in the bore as others this is true thus some will utilize the rifling fully and some will not.

 

[MisterHappy]

If you're using a slug with a sabot, then the rifling will help.

The old breneke - style slugs are like a shuttlecock - they're stabilized by the weight being forward in flight.

The OLD, old round-ball slugs would have the same stability as a musket ball.

The term "Rifled Slug" refers to "rifling" on the slug itself.

 

[MassMark]

I'd argue that he may be a bit behind the times. While certainly accurate with a good slug, smoothbore shotgun accuracy can fall apart rather quickly. When you watch a shooter with a Savage 220 sending 3" Accutips into a tennis ball sized circle drawn on a paper plate repeatedly at 100-yards, it becomes pretty clear that the rifled barrel/sabot slug technology has come a long way. While the 20ga smoothbore slug for example is no slouch, the Accutip is tossing a 260gr hollow-point, copper jacketed bullet at speeds dancing around 2,000fps. My understanding is that Winchester is possibly introducing a competitor to the Accutip that's hitting speeds of 2400-2500fps. That's a lot of energy behind a pretty juicy jacketed bullet. One of my regular customers at the gun counter hit a deer with a Winchester Supreme Elite 12ga - which is a 300gr slug moving at 2200 and he said the deer just dropped like a bag of rocks. He estimated his shot at 125-yards. You're just not going to get that kind of accuracy out of a Slugger...

 

[Gammon]

I recently had a conversation with an older gentleman about 12 Ga Slug gun's. He has ALOT of first hand knowledge concerning all types of firearms. He was explaining to me that the accurancy of a rifled shotgun barrel is more myth than fact. That a smooth bore w/quality ammo is just as accurate within 100 yard.

He explained that a Foster slug starts it rotation IN the barrel, where as a Sabot starts it's limited rotation after it LEAVES the barrel because the plastic case does not truely engage the rifling. Thus, true rifled flight of the projectile is myth.

He went on to tell me that he has hole-on-hole accurancy w/12 ga Brenneke slugs, off-hand @ 75 yards (Smooth bore,open sight)

What do you think ??

I think this guy is full of it (BS). One hole accuracy with anything at 75yds offhand is quite an accomplishment. I load my own slugs for use in a smooth bore barrel and was delighted with 2.5 in groups (three shots) using a Bushnell HoloSight off of a rest at 25 yds. That was until a hunter friend of mine told me that he was getting two inch groups at 50 yds with a rifled barrel. The rifled barrel definitely improves accuracy.

PS I gave up on the Bushnell HoloSight when it self destructed and launched its batteries into my face. This sight is not that well built and most certainly not up to the recoil of 12 ga slugs.

 

[ARV]

I was able to keep a rifled slug out of a smooth barrel on a paper plate sized target at 100 yards. That was with a little prating though.

 

[Jose]

He explained that a Foster slug starts it rotation IN the barrel, where as a Sabot starts it's limited rotation after it LEAVES the barrel because the plastic case does not truely engage the rifling. Thus, true rifled flight of the projectile is myth.

He's full of shit.

Foster slugs definitely not rotate in the barrel. Those slugs depends on their lengthwise, angled serrations to generate spin from aerodynamic drag. While there is air in the bore, there is such a small gap between the slug and the bore that air drag is virtually insignificant.

As for sabot slugs, I'd love to know how he came up with that theory. There is NFW that he can measure any of that. OTOH, I'll believe the engineers are the major gun and ammo makers when they show higher accuracy out of saboted slugs.

He's just another Fudd with zero common sense and probably no knowledge of how slugs actually work.

 

[HorizontalHunter]

I have a Mossberg 500 with a rifled barrel, my father has the same with a smooth barrel. We had the same question/argumemt when I bought mine last year.

The results (if I remember correctly) were something like this, Brenneke slugs through the smooth bore and fusion something's in my rifled.

50yds - no difference hole on hole
75yds - no difference 2" groups
100 yds smooth 3-4in groups
100 yds rifled 2" groups
125 yds smooth 5" groups
125 yds rifled 2" groups
150 yds smooth 8-10" groups
150 yds rifled 3-4" groups

As you can see the smooth bore falls apart after 100 yds while the rifled barrel keeps its accuracy. But how much power is left at long range with either. I'm a little more comfortable taking a 100 yard shot with my rifled barrel, but at the same time I've never had a shot more than 75 yards in mass at a deer. Also the rifled slugs are significantly more expensive. Mine was part of the combo deal at DICKS otherwise I don't think I would have sought the rifled barrel out.

That pretty much sums it up.

Other considerations can be:

The increase in weight of a rifled barrel vs a smooth bore.

And probably the most important is the type of hunting you do. I can't remember ever taking more than a 75 yard shot at a deer as well in Mass. If you hunt a lot of open space then I would think that a rifled barrel makes more sense.

I still hunt with a smoothbore that has a variable 1.5 to 4.5 shotgun scope on it and I have never seen a need to upgrade it. It does everything I need it to do more cheaply than a rifled barrel and it is a lot lighter to lug around in the woods at the end of the day.

Bob