Self-Defense Insurance?

[mikem317]

Has any NESer a past, present or prospective buyer of a self-defense insurance policy? I've heard ads on Armed-American Radio and seen a few online ads from NRA about it.

I honestly never gave it much thought until the AAR host, with special guest Masad Ayoob, were interviewing George Zimmerman about his incident. For whatever reason, it sort of hit me right then and there. Then hearing about what happened to a former NESer, (see post in Members Section), just got me thinking about it again.

The sheer cost in dollars to retain and hire an attorney, posting bail if I'm arrested after a legit SD incident, etc. It can be pretty large. And I'm working/middle-class. I don't have $100,000+ laying around.

 

[boiler_eng]

Never really looked into it but I would think that it would be hard to insure and collect in this scenario. Most insurance does not protect against an intentional act which even if you were defending yourself you do intend to be using your gun in that fashion.

So insurance in the scenario of an accident might be possible but I would be very leery of any company that was saying they would insure in this scenario, and also how much are you willing to pay for it? Given that only those who consider themselves most likely to draw on it would really pay for it I can't imagine it would be as cheap as insuring your guns against fire/loss or something.

here are a few links:

http://www.northeastshooters.com/vbulletin/threads/146316-Thoughts-on-self-defense-insurance

http://www.northeastshooters.com/vb...as-on-liability-ins-for-self-defense-shooting

 

[mikem317]

Thanks - I realize there's usually an exception for self-defense injuries as part of your HO insurance. I was thinking about a special insurance policy, specifically for self-defense.

I'll check out those links but they same pretty old - for some reason they didn't come up when I used the forum search tool - thanks.

 

[boiler_eng]

Thanks - I realize there's usually an exception for self-defense injuries as part of your HO insurance. I was thinking about a special insurance policy, specifically for self-defense.

I'll check out those links but they same pretty old - for some reason they didn't come up when I used the forum search tool - thanks.

Not a problem, I read in one person's profile to always just use the google keywords to search within the site. IE:

self defense insurance site:northeastshooters.com

Those were some of the first few links. If you play with the wording it might change what comes up.

It looks like the NRA might offer a policy and some members on here carry it.

 

[soloman02]

The problem I see with insurance is that by nature of the definition of insurance, the policy will not pay out until after you have been acquitted (or charges dropped though there might be a gotcha clause in the fine print that allows for payout only if one is acquitted).

Last I checked, it is kinda hard to hire a competent attorney who will actually work to get an acquittal on nothing and most people don't have the kind of cash required to hire an attorney to see the case through to an acquittal. Most attorney's want all or most of the money up front. And attorney's vary greatly in what they charge depending on the state. Hell even within the same state the difference can be pretty great. From what I have seen (anecdotally mind you) it costs a hell of a lot more to defend against criminal charges in Massachusetts than New Hampshire.

I've been looking into this as well and so far I have only seen the Armed Citizens' Legal Defense Network (https://www.armedcitizensnetwork.org/) that would actually be useful since they give out $10K upon a member reporting an incident to get the ball rolling for you to hire a competent attorney and then you can submit the case to the board for review and they will make a determination of whether they will provide further financial assistance.

I am not a member and had not heard of them until recently. It sounds like a good thing to be a member of but I like many here don't like to spend my money on things that are not proven to work.

Anyone have experience with them? Are there any other organizations out there that provide any money up front?

 

[mikem317]

It looks like the USCCA insurance one does provide "next day" money for legal retainer. Based on my research. Which was not very thorough.

 

[Rockrivr1]

It's something I'd be interested in as well. Though the one thing here to remember, that's just as important, is to line up an attorney as well. Great to have the money for a retainer if needed, but not knowing who to call as the police are questioning you is not going to work in your favor. Find an attorney and keep that person's name and number close. With insurance you've in good shape.

 

[Love Machine]

Supposedly there is, but I don't know of anyone who's actually used it.

 

[mikem317]

It's something I'd be interested in as well. Though the one thing here to remember, that's just as important, is to line up an attorney as well. Great to have the money for a retainer if needed, but not knowing who to call as the police are questioning you is not going to work in your favor. Find an attorney and keep that person's name and number close. With insurance you've in good shape.

Most, if not all of the insurance companies I've researched instruct you to call them immediately after you report the incident to LE. From there, they get a case manager, find a lawyer, point-of-contact for you, etc.

Supposedly there is, but I don't know of anyone who's actually used it.

There's a lot of anecdotal stories on the insurance companies' websites, but no, I don't know anybody that used them.

 

[soloman02]

Regarding USCCA, they state on their website that they will pay for criminal defense, but then in the "fine print" of the membership details they state it is only a reimbursement and they only provide $10K up front for a retainer. In NH though, I think $10K will go pretty far and would allow you to potentially pay for the whole case depending on the attorney you select. While USCCA also provides for civil defense, NH has a clause that provides protection from civil suits. I don't know if Mass has such a law.

627:1-a Civil Immunity. – A person who uses force in self-protection or in the protection of other persons pursuant to RSA 627:4, in the protection of premises and property pursuant to RSA 627:7 and 627:8, in law enforcement pursuant to RSA 627:5, or in the care or welfare of a minor pursuant to RSA 627:6, is justified in using such force and shall be immune from civil liability for personal injuries sustained by a perpetrator which were caused by the acts or omissions of the person as a result of the use of force. In a civil action initiated by or on behalf of a perpetrator against the person, the court shall award the person reasonable attorney's fees, and costs, including but not limited to, expert witness fees, court costs, and compensation for loss of income.

Page 17 of the USCCA PDF linked below:

Self-Defense Shield is the members-only, firearms liability insurance benefit
that allows you to take control and eliminate the legal and financial burden of
owning a gun for self-defense.

Your insurance-backed benefits
include Civil Suit Defense
Protection, Civil Suit Damages
Protection & Firearm Theft
Protection, which provides up
to $1,000,000 if charges are ever
brought against you in civil court.
2. You’ll also be eligible for a
Criminal Defense Reimbursement,
which offers you up to $100,000
to help cover the costs of criminal
charges or proceedings which
result from your use of a weapon
in self-defense.
3. You’ll have Immediate Access
To A Criminal Defense Attorney
Retainer. This exclusive benefit
immediately grants you up to
$10,000 to help you retain the
attorney of your choice. This is
money that does not need to
be repaid, regardless of the
verdict in court.

You’ll also be eligible for Immediate
Bail Bond Cash, another exclusive
benefit of the USCCA, which
provides up to $10,000 to get you
out of jail if you’re ever held on
criminal charges.
5. And finally, the USCCA Self-Defense
Shield will provide Compensation
While in Court, which replaces your
lost wages, up to $500 a day, while
you’re required to defend yourself in
civil court.
The bottom line: If you’re forced to
use your gun in self-defense, there’s a
good chance you’ll have to prove that
your actions were justified. You can
rest easy knowing that the USCCA will
have your back legally and financially
when you need us most.

https://www.usconcealedcarry.com/pdf/USCCA-Member-Resource-Guide_Web.pdf

 

[Acujeff]

Most of the organizations covering armed self defense actually involve a membership offering either financial coverage or legal services or both. Some programs cover criminal defense but not civil legal defense costs or judgments.

The best ones are started and run by pro-RKBA legal and insurance professionals because there has been an absence of adequate specific coverage and services anywhere else for gun owners. Most conventional liability and homeowners insurance do not cover criminal charges or the intentional act of armed self defense. It is for that reason anyone knowledgeable on the subject - gun organizations, writers, instructors, and attorneys are recommending armed self defense programs as an important part of an adequate self defense plan.

I was using the NRA Self Defense Insurance but it always bothered me that it provided no upfront finances or legal services. You had to find your own attorney and legal recourses, pay out of pocket and eventually get reimbursed.

I switched to Second Call Defense which offers criminal and civil coverage but also includes a full range of emergency and immediate resources such as 24/7 access to legal services, bond, attorney referral and retainer, crisis management, and other necessary legal and financial services to protect your rights. It will pay for your own lawyer, or find you the right defense lawyer wherever you are in the US.

I think Second Call Defense offers the most comprehensive services and coverage. It is managed exclusively by gun rights defense attorneys and advocates. Second Call Defense is backed by the NRA endorsed insurance program and administered by Lockton Affinity, LLC.

You can check out the features and benefits at:
http://www.secondcalldefense.org/?affiliate=20084

If you decide to join on the website you can get a rebate on the first month of membership. You can cancel or change anytime.

 

[Navy Moose]

I'm a member of both Second Call and Armed Citizen Defense Network. The DVDs provided by Armed Citizen are worth the price of admission.