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Self Defense Insurance - How many have it?
- Thread starter Nick Leduc
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A danger of USCCA and similar entities is solvency and the willingness and ability to pay defense claims.
Consider other examples of what has happened in the past when sellers of an asset encountered unanticipated expenses or could not deliver the goods. Otherwise reputable oil delivery companies refused to honor lock-in of lower prices beyond what they had budgeted for, and colleges are using the "not in our budget" excuse to deny refunds, or use very "favorable to them" pro-rata valuation schemes, and telling current customers who are somewhat locked in "you will pay more for less if you want to finish your degree". Or even a stealership charging $3.75 for contractually promised "free service" since their additional alleged cost gives them the right to modify said contract (or so they think).
The insurance industry is heavily regulated and companies are regularly audited to assure current reserves and an actuarially sound foundation for payments of claims, annuities, bonds, etc. These carry insurance places are more of a wild west, with no legally mandated or audited claims paying reserve and certainly not the concept of re-insurance where an underwriter insures against some of the risk they take to assure the ability to pay claims.
Given the complexity of setting up real "insurance", I suspect that the "insurance" part is underwritten by a traditional insurance company with the carry protection company acting as an agent, and only directly underwriting what the insurance companies either can't or won't.
Plus, the terms are one sided - USCCA can change any term at any time if the notify you - but there is no requirement as to how much advance notice, or the mechanism by which this notice is delivered.
Consider other examples of what has happened in the past when sellers of an asset encountered unanticipated expenses or could not deliver the goods. Otherwise reputable oil delivery companies refused to honor lock-in of lower prices beyond what they had budgeted for, and colleges are using the "not in our budget" excuse to deny refunds, or use very "favorable to them" pro-rata valuation schemes, and telling current customers who are somewhat locked in "you will pay more for less if you want to finish your degree". Or even a stealership charging $3.75 for contractually promised "free service" since their additional alleged cost gives them the right to modify said contract (or so they think).
The insurance industry is heavily regulated and companies are regularly audited to assure current reserves and an actuarially sound foundation for payments of claims, annuities, bonds, etc. These carry insurance places are more of a wild west, with no legally mandated or audited claims paying reserve and certainly not the concept of re-insurance where an underwriter insures against some of the risk they take to assure the ability to pay claims.
Given the complexity of setting up real "insurance", I suspect that the "insurance" part is underwritten by a traditional insurance company with the carry protection company acting as an agent, and only directly underwriting what the insurance companies either can't or won't.
Plus, the terms are one sided - USCCA can change any term at any time if the notify you - but there is no requirement as to how much advance notice, or the mechanism by which this notice is delivered.
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Same, and happy I did.
oldguy47
NES Member
Go on their website. There is a full list. I have one as an emergency contact in my phone.
oldguy47
NES Member
dittto
bigpick
NES Member
I liked that the bond premium was better and the amount for civil and criminal defense was better. You can choose your own attorney, they also aren’t funded by a 3rd party which could be pressured by anti 2a to drop the carrier. It was between USCCA and CCW. Also the defender plan is half the price vs the platinum plan. This is just my own opinion.
bigpick
NES Member
USCCA also lets you pick your own attorney too. Sorry to make that confusing. Too be honest and it might not make a difference, I felt more pressured to sign up from USCCA. Wanted to make a follow up call etc, not a big deal to most I’m sure but I don’t like it.
Buck F
NES Member
USCCA gives you a list of attorneys in your state but I believe you can also choose your own. Theirs include Jason Guida, Neil Tassel , Keith Langer and a few more criminal defense/2A attorneys. Doubt you’ll find a better lawyer than those on their list.
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Those guys are gun law experts, but if you are facing a charge for a self defense shooting, you may want someone who cuts their teeth on complex involved felony trials like Kevin Reddington. Some of the lawyers on the previous list have experience trying criminal cases, but I do not know if any have ever tried a self defense or justifiable shooting case. Actually, I know Langer has tried a couple - but the shootees were of the 4 legged variety, not biped mammals.
I wonder how these ''you can pick your own attorney" plans react to "the attorney I have chosen requires a $100K retainer to start working my case". I remember meeting with an attorney about a small civil matter (it was outside his normal practice, one of his associates was a local club member) and he mentioned that his standard rate for a criminal defense was $70K, up front ... and this was over 25 years ago.
Buck F
NES Member
I just checked, Reddington is not on the list, the ones I mentioned are the ones I have seen favorably mentioned on NES, there are a few other. I went through some of the others and just about all state in their bios/websites that they specialize in criminal defense and 2A, although I didn't research their self-defense related cases (good point). Guida and Tassel are both listed as being on the USCCA Critical Response Team (not all the listed lawyers are). I imagine [hope] that if they agreed to be on the USCCA Critical Response Team that they have some idea/comfort level in how USCCA will handle their fees?
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Thank you. Just what I expected. Probably plenty of escape clauses that will leave the policy holder high and dry if he or she ever had to drop the hammer on a dirtbag felon. Insurance in MA? Our automobile policy here is twice what we paid in Alabama and Louisiana. As a nurse anesthetist, Jill pays high malpractice premiums. If she puts someone to sleep for a procedure and they don't wake up, lawsuit from the survivors is a slam-dunk. Plus homeowner's insurance. We keep a couple of guns for home defense. The rest are for hunting and target shooting.
Granted Andrew LOSD is an avid promoter of CCW Safe but this story is informative.
Read the comments if you're interested in CCW Safe.
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B_GOWclQk8E
Read the comments if you're interested in CCW Safe.
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B_GOWclQk8E
Mark from MA
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A lot of people do this so they don't lose their house and accounts to healthcare. It would be also possible in a self defense situation where you would be liable, the lookback for medical is 5 years, meaning, the trust does not go into effect for medical until 5 years after you file it. I have no idea what it would be or if there is even a lookback for a self defense issue or wrongful death liability.
You dont technically lose control of it if its written in the trust that you have control (live there) until death. However, the trustees if not rock solid and on your side, also could create issues for you........technically they do own your house. There have been a**h*** kids that have thrown their parents out of their house and/or sold it on them, that's not totally unheard of.
Also, for instance, say your kid is a trustee and they get divorced, now 1/2 of their portion of the trust (your house) could go to divorced spouse in a divorce decree.
It does however make the house and accounts taxable entities. (In other words, the goverment will get their cut of something) Typically its a basis scenario, where you put the house in the trust and its worth X, you die, kids sell it and its worth Y.....they will have to pay taxes on the difference between X and Y in most cases.
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There are "allowable" and "non-allowable" expenses during the lookback period. Thing that are not wealth transfer but to provide for your life like food, utility bill, legal fees, etc. are generally "allowable". Even buying a boat is "allowable" but it counts as one of your assets. What is not allowable are gifts; real estate / property transactions that are not "arms length market value" (like selling you kid the house for $1, etc.)
Prepaid funeral expenses are allowable, as are legal fees for a Medicaid application. This makes the later "free money" because you either give it to the attorney or preserve it for the medical establishment. The prepaid funeral expense contract must not contain flowers (yes, really) but is an allowable expense during the 5 year window.
In general, any disposition (check, eft, charge, debit, etc.) within 5 years must be explained as part of the application.
At one point it was illegal for attorneys to give any advice on how to legally preserve assets under Medicaid spend-down rules, but that was struck down by the courts. And finally, being on Medicaid without someone to give "outside money" is like being in prison without someone to feed your commissary account.
USLaw has been my choice for a few years. Under $150 a year. Peace of mind.
heathone
NES Member
they have attorneys on call 24 / 7
Do they have a list of attorneys they work with in MA and can you select a preferred one?
So, if you need to call them and only have 2min to talk before the cops arrive, let them know you are getting arrested, what town and they contact the attorney on file.
