Sabot slugs or rifled slugs?

[Marty McFly]

so I have a combo 12ga. one barrel is smooth and the other is rifled. are sabot slugs much more accurate in my rifled barrel or can I achieve the same thing with rifled slugs through my smooth barrel? I guess I am asking whether or not my rifled barrel is useless. I have deer hunting in mind in the future. If this is a stupid question please let loose on me. i would expect no less.

 

[StevieP]

Use Sabots in a rifled barrel

With a smooth bore you need the slug to be rifled, since the smooth bore won't get it spinning to help stabilize the slug.

With a rifled barrel, the sabbot surrounding the smaller diam. slug will engage the rifling to get it spinning, and is more aerodynamic than a rifled slug, and separates from the sabbot when it leaves the barrel.

A rifled slug would lead up the rifling in a rifled barrel.

For deer hunting, a sabot slug in a rifled barrel will (generally) be more accurate, especially at longer distances.

I don't know the answer off the top of my head, for the third possibility, which is a smooth bore, with a rifled choke tube.

Also, use buckshot only in the smoothbore barrel. In a rifled barrel, it'll "spin" the buckshot out in a wider, donut-shaped pattern that will expand much larger and be very ineffective at anything more than room distance.

 

[mousegunfan]

Simple, sabot for rifled barrels and rifled slugs for smooth barrels.

 

[Marty McFly]

I understand the uses. I am wondering if I go hunting will I find that a sabot in my rifled barrel will work better than a rifled slug in my smooth bore? and if so, how much better?

 

[StevieP]

I understand the uses. I am wondering if I go hunting will I find that a sabot in my rifled barrel will work better than a rifled slug in my smooth bore? and if so, how much better?

This is what days at the range are for, and half the fun!

My understanding is that sabot's through a rifled barrel are more accurate. I don't have analysis to prove or disprove that, though...

Rifled slugs are cheaper, if that's a consideration.

 

[Marty McFly]

the only sabots i can find locally are 19$ for 5 shots. so a day at the range are out on those.

 

[warwickben]

More accurate,longer range. Only down side is price per round . So if you don't plan to take longer shots you can save with the smooth bore barrel .



From wiki .

Saboted slugs are lead-cored, full copper-jacketed or solid copper projectiles supported by a plastic sabot, which is designed to engage the rifling in a rifled shotgun barrel and impart a ballistic spin onto the projectile. This differentiates them from traditional slugs, which are not designed to benefit from a rifled barrel (though neither does the other any damage). They can take the usual variety of shapes, but for maximum accuracy are typically bullet-shaped (ogive). The slugs are generally significantly smaller than the bore diameter, increasing the ballistic coefficient, and use the sabot to seal the bore and keep the slug centered in the bore while it rotates with the rifling. Saboted slugs, when fired out of a rifled barrel, are generally far more accurate than non-jacketed slugs out of a smoothbore, with accuracy to 300 metres (330 yd) approaching that of low-velocity rifle calibers. By 1966 (published in 1966 Gun Digest), Ballistic Research Industries was producing a 440-grain (29 g) .50 caliber sabot slug of a new design. The projectile was a wasp waisted hourglass shape made of a hard lead alloy. While many equate sabot to rifled barrel, this slug design was specifically designed for and tested in smoothbores. Testing even included over/unders and side-by-sides. The same slug, made of zinc and about 260 grains was marketed to police for car body penetration. The self-stabilizing shape allowed it to be used with bore cylinder or improved cylinder barrels.[6][7]

 

[Diggs]

I've used both a lot. It's all we can hunt with here. At close ranges, you won't notice a difference except for the sights/ bead. I have found full diameter rifled slugs do more damage than sabots but both drop deer very well. I use an iron sighted rifled barrel with sabot in 12ga. now because I want the option of a longer shot if I need one. Most of the time I don't get the chance, in fact, I think all the deer I have killed were less than 35 yards away.

 

[Artie]

This is what days at the range are for, and half the fun!

My understanding is that sabot's through a rifled barrel are more accurate. I don't have analysis to prove or disprove that, though...

Rifled slugs are cheaper, if that's a consideration.

^This
I had the same question in the past. This is a good article:
Choose the Right Slug > Buckmasters > View All Articles

 

[Marty McFly]

More accurate,longer range. Only down side is price per round . So if you don't plan to take longer shots you can save with the smooth bore barrel .



From wiki .

Saboted slugs are lead-cored, full copper-jacketed or solid copper projectiles supported by a plastic sabot, which is designed to engage the rifling in a rifled shotgun barrel and impart a ballistic spin onto the projectile. This differentiates them from traditional slugs, which are not designed to benefit from a rifled barrel (though neither does the other any damage). They can take the usual variety of shapes, but for maximum accuracy are typically bullet-shaped (ogive). The slugs are generally significantly smaller than the bore diameter, increasing the ballistic coefficient, and use the sabot to seal the bore and keep the slug centered in the bore while it rotates with the rifling. Saboted slugs, when fired out of a rifled barrel, are generally far more accurate than non-jacketed slugs out of a smoothbore, with accuracy to 300 metres (330 yd) approaching that of low-velocity rifle calibers. By 1966 (published in 1966 Gun Digest), Ballistic Research Industries was producing a 440-grain (29 g) .50 caliber sabot slug of a new design. The projectile was a wasp waisted hourglass shape made of a hard lead alloy. While many equate sabot to rifled barrel, this slug design was specifically designed for and tested in smoothbores. Testing even included over/unders and side-by-sides. The same slug, made of zinc and about 260 grains was marketed to police for car body penetration. The self-stabilizing shape allowed it to be used with bore cylinder or improved cylinder barrels.[6][7]

why couldnt I find that? thank you very much! 330 yards is damn good.

 

[joeendris]

I understand the uses. I am wondering if I go hunting will I find that a sabot in my rifled barrel will work better than a rifled slug in my smooth bore? and if so, how much better?

Sabot rounds are MUCH more accurate. And think, most of them are 300-400 grain rounds, moving at 2k fps -ish. Pretty hefty round when you can't use rifles.

 

[Diggs]

Oh yeah, you want to make sure your smooth bore can handle slugs. I have seen 2 mossberg smoothbore ( 1 fixed and 1 screw- in modified chokes) barrels blow up firing Remington sluggers. Coincidently,both times it was the second shot at running deer and the first shot sounded "wierd".
We (my friends and I) used to shoot slugs through our cheap mossbergs all the time until they started blowing up. Thank god nobody got hurt.

 

[Marty McFly]

also wanted to add that the rifled barrel is setup for a scope. no iron sights. just a rail for scope. are there any reasonable priced sabots anywhere? the gun is a weatherby pa-08

 

[warwickben]

also wanted to add that the rifled barrel is setup for a scope. no iron sights. just a rail for scope. are there any reasonable priced sabots anywhere? the gun is a weatherby pa-08

Internet for ammo. Or find a dealer that will let u ship to him out of stater etc (if ur in mass)

Alot of nes guys raved about these optics . And the hold zero on a 12g . I'm gonna buy one for my ar then if I get a rifled barrel one for my mossy .

http://www.sightmark.com/products/reflex-sights/ultra-shot-qd-digital-switch-sm14000

The only down side is switching recitals doesn't hold zero. But if you put it back to the recital u zeroed on its still zero . And they can be removed and put back on holding there zero .

 

[Diggs]

The last deer I shot was a 100# doe at about 10 yards and I used a Winchester supreme gold sabot slug, 395g traveling 1900 fps. Hit just behind the front leg and dropped it. There was a couple drops of blood on the exit would. That's it.
Years ago, we all used to use those Brenneke Rottweill slugs ( full diameter with the plastic wad screwed on the back). Those things always left devastating wounds. You could practically see through the hole they left.

 

[GP100]

I have a Mossberg with two barrels, one rifled and one smooth. The smooth has a warning on it not to use slugs. This is because the mossy is overbored. It throws a hell of a pattern with turkey loads. This might be why Diggs noticed some mossys blowing up...... As most have said, for long range, rifled barrel with sabots are probably your best bet. The downside is the price of sabots. My preferred shotgun in the deer woods is my short barreled smooth bore Remington 870 with rifled slugs. At 50 yards I can shoot very tight groups and I really don't hunt anywhere where I would need a long range gun. I suppose I'd probably opt for the rifled mossy if I did intend to do any long range hunting.

 

[mousegunfan]

Either way you have to test groups individually. Shotguns vary so much how they shoot. Just get some of each and test your gun because someone else who gives an opinion based on their gun and load will be different from your gun.

 

[22lr]

My 2 cents... if you will be hunting in the woods etc... a rifled slugs in a smooth barrel are plenty sufficient and not to mention far cheaper.

If you have DEEP pockets and will be hunting in open country and can only use a Shotgun or something... go with the sabots / rifled slugs and a scope. Keep in mind that you will probably drop at least $50 just to sight in the scope, never mind go home with a black and blue shoulder. And if you cant afford a scope, you may as well stick with the smooth bore / rifled slugs and just practice enough to be confident.

Personally, I got into deer hunting in MA about 2 yrs ago and ran into the dilemma. I ended up ditching the rifled barrel on my 12ga and picked up a TC Impact muzzle loader and a good scope. It is less expensive to shoot, more accurate and opens up 3 additional weeks or so to the hunting season. I also find it more enjoyable to hunt with.

 

[HorizontalHunter]

I understand the uses. I am wondering if I go hunting will I find that a sabot in my rifled barrel will work better than a rifled slug in my smooth bore? and if so, how much better?

They are different tools and have different performance envelopes. Rifled barrels shooting the right sabot slug (you have to find the one that your barrel likes best) can be accurate out to 250 yards with practice and a shooting stick.

Rifled slugs out of a smoothbore will get the job done out to 100 or 125 yards; again if you find the right slug for your smoothbore.

The year before last I dropped a buck at 75- 80 yards using a rifled slug out of my smoothbore with a heart shot. I hit where I aimed (using a scope and shooting stick) and the rifled slug destroyed the heart and passed through the buck.

The real question is which tool fits the hunting you do??????

I can afford a rifled barrel and the sabot slugs and that buck would be just as dead but I do not need the extended range that a rifled barrel and a sabot slug would give me. In 30 years of hunting that shot was the longest shot I have ever taken with my smoothbore.

I tend to hunt thicker cover so the extra range is not needed. If I hunted food plots and such I might use a different tool.

the only sabots i can find locally are 19$ for 5 shots. so a day at the range are out on those.

One downside of rifled barrels and sabots is as you mentioned the cost of the sabot slug. When I buy rifled slugs (my smoothie likes Remington sluggers) I can usually find them for about a buck apiece when I catch them on sale.

The other downside to a rifled barrel is that the barrel is at least 2x as heavy as a smoothbore barrel and that weight adds up at the end of the day.

As I said. The real question is what tool do YOU need for the kind of hunting that YOU do.

Bob

 

[Diggs]

You used to be able to find fairly cheap sabots to use for sighting in and only go through one box of expensive ones you plan to use for hunting at the end.
I have found the regular grey/silver box Winchester 2 3/4 sabots for well under $10 box.

 

[PilotRPI]

I researched the same thing a few months ago when deciding on a deer barrel for my 870.

For shots less than 50 yards, rifled and sabot slugs are about equally accurate. The sabots begin to shine at distances past 75 and 100 yards. Sabots are also a few bucks a shot, and rifled slugs often less than a dollar.

This is all assuming you find the ammo your shotgun shoots best in each case.

For me, I realized that for the price of a new barrel, I can get a muzzleloader and double the length of my deer season.

So if you are doing a lot of short shots in massachusetts, I say save your money and go rifled slug. If you are shooting across large fields, maybe sabots will suit you better.

 

[boatman]

Sorry to take this a bit out, but why does ma only allow deer hunting with shotgun/slugs? What is the reason for not allowing say .308? Or something similar.

sent using tapatalk

 

[71montess]

Slugs won't travel as far as a rifle round.

 

[Cerfur]

It appears to be beaten to death here but I love sabots in my 500. I have the rifled barrel with the cantilevered scope and I can get a 1.5 inch.group at 150 yards! I cant get near that with a rifled slug myself.... Maybe some folks can but not I! I actually do have 2 places I hunt where this shot is possible! (have yet to take a clear shot over 100 yards they have been coming closer) But I know I am capable.. But the down side to the rifled barrel is if you drive deer and run buck shot you.need to swap guns or barrels... So yes rifled bores with a sabot is far mor accurate! However it is far more expensive and if you drive deer cumbersome. So your next question is do I hunt some where that I am going to need to take a 120 or 200 yard shot most guys in this state the answer is no for the great majority of Massachusetts hunters.... However there is one other plus to the rifled barrel many as I have mentioned use a cantilevered scope mount...If you want a scope on your shot gun and you drive deer or hunt any birds the cantilever mount is your only choice... This way you can sight in your scope and take the rifled barrel off with the scope and hunt geese or pheasents.... Then its deer time just pop it back on your good to go! If you drive deer you can hunt scoped from your stand in the morning then pop off the rifled barrel and scope. pop the smooth bore on and drive..... Great system.. But if i was not going to take shots over 60 or 70 yards just a smooth bore as The rifled slugs are plenty accurate at those distances and you likely wont need a scope... Save lots of cash!

 

[MightyGreek]

While I don't have any personal with this, The Box o' Truth did an interesting write-up on it:

The Box O' Truth #46 - Shotgun Slugs, Sabots, and Smooth Bore Barrels - Page 1

 

[chaser001]

Either way you have to test groups individually. Shotguns vary so much how they shoot. Just get some of each and test your gun because someone else who gives an opinion based on their gun and load will be different from your gun.

This! Both of my brothers have winchester 1300 ranchers that they use for deer, both with the smooth bore slug barrels. but they handle ammo very differently. Same gun, same set up, we've even tried the same shooter, and what we found is that one gun doesn't mind cheap slugs, the other is all over the place unless it's fed topshelf ammo. So go grab a few different types/brands and see what you and your shotgun like.

 

[Artie]

Awesome link, and with 8×10 color glossy pictures with circles and arrows and a paragraph...
+1

While I don't have any personal with this, The Box o' Truth did an interesting write-up on it:

The Box O' Truth #46 - Shotgun Slugs, Sabots, and Smooth Bore Barrels - Page 1

 

[dixidawg]

Yes sabots are more expensive per round. BUT, how many times would you actually pull the trigger over the course of a season? How much would those rounds cost you and is it really significant in the grand scheme of things?

 

[Tweed]

Yes sabots are more expensive per round. BUT, how many times would you actually pull the trigger over the course of a season? How much would those rounds cost you and is it really significant in the grand scheme of things?

Exactly! For the amount of time that I spend in the woods tracking, waiting, getting wet and cold, the difference between a round that costs me $1.00 and $3.50 is pretty small. I need accuracy and penetration. I hit 2 deer @ 70 yards last year with a copper jacketed sabot from a muzzleloader. flat trajectory out to 100 yds. neither deer went more than 10 yds.

used a Remington copper sabot in my 20 ga @ 40 yds during shotgun to get a 5 pointer. not using slugs again.

 

[JudgeWhoAllowsStuff]

Rifled slugs don't spin (maybe barely) - the "rifling" is there so that the slug swages down to the choke diameter.

Use Sabots in a rifled barrel

With a smooth bore you need the slug to be rifled, since the smooth bore won't get it spinning to help stabilize the slug.

With a rifled barrel, the sabbot surrounding the smaller diam. slug will engage the rifling to get it spinning, and is more aerodynamic than a rifled slug, and separates from the sabbot when it leaves the barrel.

A rifled slug would lead up the rifling in a rifled barrel.

For deer hunting, a sabot slug in a rifled barrel will (generally) be more accurate, especially at longer distances.

I don't know the answer off the top of my head, for the third possibility, which is a smooth bore, with a rifled choke tube.

Also, use buckshot only in the smoothbore barrel. In a rifled barrel, it'll "spin" the buckshot out in a wider, donut-shaped pattern that will expand much larger and be very ineffective at anything more than room distance.