Robbery question..

[Palladin]

You should give this a read: http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_1_5/1285487_Street_robberies_and_you___The_Basics.html

awesome read

 

[drgrant]

OMG I'm sorry. You have no idea at all...

There is no vetting of the buyers and sellers. And every friend I have who is trying to sell stuff on there runs into a never ending stream of shitbirds before they sell whatever the thing is. "I got 48 phone calls for one pair of tires" you would have been better off just throwing the tires away. Sounds like a waste of time to me. Mileage may vary, I guess, but that's pretty much the last place I'd look for something.

-Mike

 

[jhblaze1]

haven't read the thread but my .02:

You were smart to just leave.

If you had decided to stay, and several men surround you I'd say that I'd be in fear of my life and drawing. The bad guy or guys do not have to be armed. It's about whether your lawyer can convince a jury that a reasonable person would be in fear for their life. ONE punch in even a fair fight can kill someone or leave you talking like you have syrup in your mouth for the rest of your life. Many knock out game victims have been killed or left with lifelong injuries/brain damage. Remember, the standard isn't "fear for your life, it's fear for your life or grave injury".

4 guys surround me, someone's getting shot.

 

[kalash]

Oh, another tough guy, eh, from behind your keyboard?

Laughing out the loudness.

Idk, I think it's naive to hope and pray that the four guys threatening you and demanding your wallet will be happily satisfied if you hand it over. It's a 4-on-1 robbery - your life is very much in danger; draw and be ready to shoot em all if they don't GTFO in a hurry upon seeing your gun. Just my 2c.

 

[drgrant]

Reliable? No. But I'd try that before shooting four people though.

Tell that to the last guy who got set up in one of these in fitchburg (I think it was a chinese food delivery driver) and he'd probably laugh in your face. There was no "throw the money on the ground moment" he just got stabbed in the gut and they took his shit.

-Mike

 

[otasan56]

Oh, another tough guy, eh, from behind your keyboard?

Laughing out the loudness.

Me, a tough guy? I am a peace-loving Christian retiree with a Glock 17 on my hip. I'm also a national champion handgun shooter. But don't threaten my life, or my loved ones.

 

[bill o]

Me, a tough guy? I am a peace-loving Christian retiree with a Glock 17 on my hip. I'm also a national champion handgun shooter. But don't threaten my life, or my loved ones.

USPSA? Do you still compete?

 

[otasan56]

Not USPSA

Bowling pins at Chester and Country Pond, both in NH.

 

[mwalsh9152]

Obviously in hindsight it wasnt the best decision, but situational awareness clearly was there. I think that the only better scenario in that exact situation would be to have had the wife get behind the wheel to get her and your kids to safety in case things went sideways.

In the past I have taken my wife with me for craigslist meets, but that was in the days before these types of stories were so commonplace. These days the only friend I leave the house with is behind my right hip.

Ive found that its usually pretty obvious when you are communicating with someone who is legit, because they are often just as cautious as I am. if I am selling, I will always meet at a known to me location that is always quite busy. If Im looking at a truck, I never imply that Im bringing cash to buy on the spot, because I never do. I will always make a return trip to purchase it.

 

[CCW]

So Sat. I went to buy some solar panels, guy give me directions into the middle of fitchburg. I realize as I'm approaching that I'm on a little street in the center of a bad bad area.. Got wife and kids in the truck. Pull over at address, looks abandoned. I get out, look around... 4 guys sitting in a red car... One other guy walks to the sidewalk and stands there looking at me from about 40 yards away, almost like he is waiting to see the show of me getting robbed. I'm getting a bad feeling and dont even want to text the guy to ask him where he is, I get in the truck tell wife I've got a bad feeling and drive away...

The seller might have been legit, but it felt wrong. Question is, if those 4 guys get out, corner me, claim they dont want to hurt me, but they want the $400 in my pocket that they know I brought with me... what to do? They have not threatened me, I had my EDC on me... Do I throw the money to them, do I refuse and tell them to get out of my way and get back to the car and get out? Dial 911 with my left, ready to draw with my right if they approach?

I know the answer depends upon more detailed circumstances, but I guess I'm asking do I have the right prevent theft of my property using deadly force if I am being robbed? What if he then asked for my car keys? I think you get the idea...

Thanks

-Steve

There's 2 important things to know in these scenarios.

1. In MA the law says one can not use lethal force to defend property.

2. The first sit down with your attorney is going to cost more than you had in your wallet if you even draw a gun in MA.


The rub is when do you know if you're defending your life vs. defending your property? That's a fine line and a question that nobody will be able to answer unless that moment comes.

 

[TLB]

I'm just saying in this fictional scenario, by the time you can argue that you knew this deal was going south and these four guys were looking for trouble is probably too late for a person to pull a gun and try to diffuse it. Of course it doesn't work 100% to comply, but drawing on people -unless you're 100% sure you can draw and put down four dudes- is escalating the hell out of what is likely a simple robbery. I'm not going to bother linking to non-violent robberies because there are so many.

Simple robbery? Not sure you get the psyche of a robber.

 

[TheGreekFreak]

Same situation happened to me when meeting someone to buy a brand new TV. Knew someone who dealt with the seller before but was still nervous. Didn't ask where the TV came from but 50% off + cash only = sketchy. Arrived at location and not a soul in sight. Guy was just talking to me on the phone saying I need to make sure I have cash in hand ready to give him before he brings me the TV. The back and forth added to the environment I was in got too weird so I left.

I think instead of deciding what would have been best if they approached you, you should acknowledge that you made the best decision possible. You trusted your instincts and avoided a ppssible confrontation.

Could both of our deals have gone smoothly and we just reacted too soon? Sure, but instinct coupled with the risk of someone getting hurt or even killed if it wasn't smooth makes walking away the best defensive carry move you could have made.

Very wise imo

 

[PeterGV]

5257969[/URL]]awesome read

Yes indeed. Thank you, Heathen, for the link. Let me be, like, the hundredth person to say that IS an awesome read.

A lot lot of these "let me tell you how it is" posts are retarded. This one absolutely is not. Fits 100% with everything I've read and been told in classes, and provides some very clear, useful, guidance.

 

[Nick Fury]

Its seems easy for many to forget how it went down for that legally armed security officer who capped the psycho who was stabbing the doctor to death in Boston a few years ago. Yes it is true the powers that be discourage self help. One of them even said so. So dream on keyboard
warriors because when the time comes you guys are the first ones to open the door...

 

[amm5061]

Its seems easy for many to forget how it went down for that legally armed security officer who capped the psycho who was stabbing the doctor to death in Boston a few years ago. Yes it is true the powers that be discourage self help. One of them even said so. So dream on keyboard
warriors because when the time comes you guys are the first ones to open the door...

It's a sad state of affairs when you can't act to defend yourself or someone else should some scumbag decide to do you harm without the severe risk of being jammed up by the state. And even if the DA decides not to prosecute you for criminal charges, you can still be bankrupted and have your life completely ruined by the scumbag's relations in civil court.

 

[Olympus Racing]

Correct me if im wrong, as someone who has never been involved in a robbery from any aspect.
Majority of small time criminals (like the worthless pieces of shit who do shit like that via CL) should GTFO when faced with a gun. Now if they don't spooked or reconsider the situation once
you draw, it's probably a good time to get ready to actually shoot someone.

 

[bostonasphalt2]

Me neither. OP's story shows great situational awareness and good judgment.

- - - Updated - - -



I use Craig's List a lot. #1 rule is stick to "nice" (hat tip bill o) towns.

If you think you might be going somewhere sketchy, use Google Streetview to do a recce.

I use craigslist all the time with good success... I go armed bring a couple buddies and my dog rides shotgun.. If it isn't a big item like a car or something I usually arrange a meet somewhere public with cameras.

Op you did the right thing, noticed a sketchy situation and backed out before it escalated. The what ifs have too many variables but if my family is in the car and I can't get them out without using my sidearm I wouldn't hesitate.

yup, I use craigslist frequently, and I have my procedure of making sure I speak to the person on the phone, via email and if possible, via text to get a feel for them. I am satisfied with my gut feeling then, I go forward wit the sale/purchase. If Im not, i either make sure I go somewhere super public, or I back out. Sucks, but I have no interest in my kid growing up without his daddy.

 

[fencer]

I have only one question. Why did your wife not hang out the passenger side window while chambering a round in a 12 ga pump gun and ask " Which one of you muther fockers has the solar panels?!"

 

[fencer]

Bowling pins at Chester and Country Pond, both in NH.

Were the bowling pins shooting back? Or trying to hack you to death with a machete ?

 

[bostonasphalt2]

OP you did the right thing given the situation.

Now if you want to go all theoretical, remember IANAL and this is just my opinion.

So the theoretical situation is that you are out of your car, your wife and kids are in the car, and 4 suspicions males approach from across the street. They clearly state that they just want your money and don't want to hurt you (seems a little unlikely they will say they don't want to hurt you, but it's your scenario).

What do you need to consider?
Do you believe the 4 criminal? After all, why would they lie.
What would they do if they saw your gun while you tried to comply? I have trouble believing they would politely say "thanks for the money you can keep the gun" and walk away. I think they take your gun.
Now they are armed. And you know what they look like. You have contact information that may lead back to them. You saw them at a car that may also be traceable to them. It's no longer a $400 theft, it's a firearm theft (more interest from the police). They now have a weapon and are a clear threat to you, your wife, and your kids....but you don't have a means to defend yourself or your family. Maybe they'll let you call the police who will get there is 10-15 minutes.

Now understand this is just a theoretical game. I would have done what you did and get the F out of there ASAP. I'd never put a physical conflict, armed or unarmed, before safely retreating with my family.

They should never know the gun exists in the scenario until lead is flying their way. This is why Ive always make sure that when I carry concealed, any exposure of the gun can only happen by my conscious decision.

 

[uncle griz]

You did the smart thing. Bad feeling and just leave.

 

[garandman]

,

2. The first sit down with your attorney is going to cost more than you had in your wallet.

Every bullet comes with a lawyer.