Rifles and deers?

[meth0d]

I searched but couldn't find anything....

As far as I know, there are only 3 methods for hunting deer: bow and arrow (no thanks), muzzle loader (maybe when i'm older), and shotgun (maybe!).

Now, why is it that there's no rifle season in MA?

I'd like to pick up a .223 or .243 or maybe even take my .30-06 out and try for a distance deer. I figure my chances are better if they're further out, 'cause I've got no deer hunting experience.

Insights are nwelcome, and feel free to correct me in a condescending-Scrievner-like manner if I'm wrong about the lack of a rifle season.

 

[sig shooter]

rifles are not allowed in MA and some parts in most states are restricted to shotgun only because of high populations. the whole non logic behind it is that shotgun slugs can only travel 100 or so yards and rifles can travel up to 2 miles, this came from the days of buckshot and smooth bore slug guns. todays shotgun slugs are so advanced that they can travel 300 yards accurately with the proper slug gun set up.some studies have shown that hunting with shotguns are not any safer than hunting with rifles, some have even shown that hunting with rifles is safer than hunting with shotguns.

muzzleloader season was set up as a extra season for traditional black powder hunters to go experience what is was like for there forefathers to harvest deer with a flintlock or cap lock. todays in-line muzzle loaders can travel just as far as normal rifles... makes sense right. IMO muzzleloader should be just traditional cap and ball or flintlock in spirit of the season or make a separate season for in-lines and a season for flintlocks like in PA.

 

[joehaus]

IMO muzzleloader should be just traditional cap and ball or flintlock in spirit of the season or make a separate season for in-lines and a season for flintlocks like in PA.

IMO I disagree totally. I have heard your line of reasoning before and I can’t say I subscribe to it. Should we have four separate bow seasons for recurve, compound, compound with trigger release and cross bow? Or how about breach loading shotguns and pumps? With both types of muzzleloaders you are only getting one shot in, by the time you reload either, your target will be long gone. Hunting is stalking, waiting and shot placement, not how you send a round down range.

 

[jkelly]

With both types of muzzleloaders you are only getting one shot in, by the time you reload either, your target will be long gone. ---joehaus

I think there are some major differences between traditional muzzle loading hunting and hunting with the new in-lines win regard to dependability of ignition, accuracy with regard to sights, quality of the projectile and perhaps even power.

Respectfully,

jkelly

 

[joehaus]

I think there are some major differences between traditional muzzle loading hunting and hunting with the new in-lines win regard to dependability of ignition, accuracy with regard to sights, quality of the projectile and perhaps even power.

Respectfully,

jkelly

There are huge differences but one big similarity that puts them all in the same category.

 

[meth0d]

rifles are not allowed in MA and some parts in most states are restricted to shotgun only because of high populations. the whole non logic behind it is that shotgun slugs can only travel 100 or so yards and rifles can travel up to 2 miles, this came from the days of buckshot and smooth bore slug guns. todays shotgun slugs are so advanced that they can travel 300 yards accurately with the proper slug gun set up.some studies have shown that hunting with shotguns are not any safer than hunting with rifles, some have even shown that hunting with rifles is safer than hunting with shotguns.

muzzleloader season was set up as a extra season for traditional black powder hunters to go experience what is was like for there forefathers to harvest deer with a flintlock or cap lock. todays in-line muzzle loaders can travel just as far as normal rifles... makes sense right. IMO muzzleloader should be just traditional cap and ball or flintlock in spirit of the season or make a separate season for in-lines and a season for flintlocks like in PA.

Ahh yes. I was thinking it was something a long the lines of the flawed "non logic".

Thanks for the input guys.

 

[sig shooter]

I think there are some major differences between traditional muzzle loading hunting and hunting with the new in-lines win regard to dependability of ignition, accuracy with regard to sights, quality of the projectile and perhaps even power.

Respectfully,

jkelly

+1 i don't call the new top of the line electric ignition, pelleted pyrodex, sabot powered muzzle loaders "primitive firearms" but to each there own i guess. i have never picked up a inline muzzleloader in my life and i dont plan to, i will stick to my T/C renegade with patched roundball.

 

[pupchow]

+1 i don't call the new top of the line electric ignition, pelleted pyrodex, sabot powered muzzle loaders "primitive firearms" but to each there own i guess. i have never picked up a inline muzzleloader in my life and i dont plan to, i will stick to my T/C renegade with patched roundball.

Agreed. Years ago, I recall seeing more than are few participants doing the whole "primitive" thing, wearing deerskin outfits and using a horn to carry their powder. Some would even take to camping out during the season. What do you suppose is the intent and/or logic of the timing of the "primitive firearms" season is?

 

[jkelly]

There are huge differences…-joehaus

Which I think, is reason enough for some to want different seasons.

I think the traditional muzzle loader hunter often sees the new in-line’s performance as much closer to some center fire single-shots then the typically weather sensitive, shorter range and less powerful round ball, iron sighted flintlock, and I can see their point.


Respectfully,

jkelly

 

[Arioch]

On the other hand, I have a reciever target sight on my TC Hawken, and it's darn close to a target rifle.

 

[stixnstones]

Back to the OP's question, you cannot hunt deer with a centerfire rifle in MA, but you can hunt bears and coyotes with one.

As always, check the regs.

 

[meth0d]

Back to the OP's question, you cannot hunt deer with a centerfire rifle in MA, but you can hunt bears and coyotes with one.

As always, check the regs.

From my understanding of the '08 Abstract, nothing larger than .22 caliber rifles are allowed but during daylight hours only, then it's shotguns at night. For coyotes anyway, I didn't look into the bear regs.

 

[jkelly]

On the other hand, I have a reciever target sight on my TC Hawken, and it's darn close to a target rifle.

You'll notice I didn't say less accurate.

Did you have to drill and tap the receiver?

Respectfully,

jkelly

 

[stixnstones]

my copy of the 2008 regs says "hunting hours end at midnight. artificial lights prohibited. rifles chambered to take larger than .22 caliber long rifle rimfire ammunition and pistols larger than .38 caliber are prohibited between the hours of 1/2 hour after sunset and 1/2 hour before sunrise (night time.)"

however, my copy of the 2008 regs also says that grey squirrel for zones 10-14 opened September 8 which I believe is wrong.

 

[toga]

I have a n00bish deer hunting question here. Does "shotgun" hunting for deer necessarily involve a slug, or are there other loads that would be appropriate?

thanks,
toga

 

[sig shooter]

you can use slugs or buckshot depending on your state laws.

 

[stixnstones]

I have a n00bish deer hunting question here. Does "shotgun" hunting for deer necessarily involve a slug, or are there other loads that would be appropriate?

Buckshot is legal in MA, but many folks don't use it. Smaller woodlots, hunters nearby, dense wood spots. Obviously, basic gun safety plays in, too, but it's easier to keep track of a single slug.

A 2 3/4" Foster slug does fine out to 50 yards from most shotguns.

 

[toga]

ty for the responses!

 

[meth0d]

my copy of the 2008 regs says "hunting hours end at midnight. artificial lights prohibited. rifles chambered to take larger than .22 caliber long rifle rimfire ammunition and pistols larger than .38 caliber are prohibited between the hours of 1/2 hour after sunset and 1/2 hour before sunrise (night time.)"

however, my copy of the 2008 regs also says that grey squirrel for zones 10-14 opened September 8 which I believe is wrong.

You are correct!!!
http://www.mass.gov/dfwele/dfw/regulations/regulations_coyotes.htm

 

[arlow]

the whole non logic behind it is that shotgun slugs can only travel 100 or so yards and rifles can travel up to 2 miles, this came from the days of buckshot and smooth bore slug guns. todays shotgun slugs are so advanced that they can travel 300 yards accurately with the proper slug gun set up.

Uhhh No Dedicated slug guns with specialty sabot slugs are limited to just about 200 yards. After that the slug is dropping so fast it is not worth it. Even at 200 yards you are talking about over a 16 inch drop from its apogee in flight.

 

[arlow]

todays in-line muzzle loaders can travel just as far as normal rifles... makes sense right.

Again more malarkey.

A 50 caliber ML shoots a 250 grain bullet at approximately 1800 fps and is also basically a 200 yard gun dropping off severely after that distance.

A 30/06 for example can shoot a 180 grain streamlined bullet in excess of 2700 fps and easily shoot accurately out past 400 yards with less than 24" of drop.

Yes the ranges have been extended for MLers and for shotguns but no where near as extreme as you claim.

 

[derrick_lui]

Back to the OP's question, you cannot hunt deer with a centerfire rifle in MA, but you can hunt bears and coyotes with one.

As always, check the regs.

+1


from my understanding, the Mass regs are very weird. There are no restrictions hunting the 'year round species with rifles, you can hunt chipmunk with a .308 caliber...but you cant hunt deer with one...

For night time, only .22 caliber or <.38 caliber

Squirrel has a weird rule too...
Red squirrel, ok to shoot with .308 rifle since its a 'year round species...
Gray squirrel, only shotgun or .22 depending on zone...

weird...

 

[sig shooter]

Again more malarkey.

A 50 caliber ML shoots a 250 grain bullet at approximately 1800 fps and is also basically a 200 yard gun dropping off severely after that distance.

A 30/06 for example can shoot a 180 grain streamlined bullet in excess of 2700 fps and easily shoot accurately out past 400 yards with less than 24" of drop.

Yes the ranges have been extended for MLers and for shotguns but no where near as extreme as you claim.

i have witnessed a friend hitting the 300 gong with his in-line ML ,I'm sure that it would not be wise to take a shot at a deer that far away with one but under controlled conditions it is possible. i have also had a Friend on the range hit the same 300yrd gong with his high tech slug gun.

 

[Coyote33]

...
Squirrel has a weird rule too...
Red squirrel, ok to shoot with .308 rifle since its a 'year round species...
Gray squirrel, only shotgun or .22 depending on zone...

I wonder if the .17 rimfires are now included. Wasn't GOAL working on this?

That said, there is a LOT of room for improvement, and this year, GOAL is planning to ENTIRELY REWRITE Massachusetts' gun laws. Now is the time/chance to have your say.


My take on it is this:
I think there should be 3 overlapping seasons with each successive one allowing the one before as well, bow, primitive (should be "TRUE" primitive), and shotgun/rifle. Maybe they could allow rifle West of Route 31 (they do this for something else, but I don't recall what) as the dividing line.

Anyhow, as far as "primitive" goes, I saw a young guy at the club this Summer using a homemade flintlock. I said "You should do the reenactments at Old Sturbridge Village." He comes back with "I pre-date OSV by at least a hundred years." He actually collects bees nests for the paper for wadding to simulate what they did in the old days. Pretty cool stuff.

Might also be useful to you:
Buck...Slug...Buck...Slug

Slugs or buckshot?

Deer season question 1

Never Been Hunting...

 

[arlow]

i have witnessed a friend hitting the 300 gong with his in-line ML ,I'm sure that it would not be wise to take a shot at a deer that far away with one but under controlled conditions it is possible. i have also had a Friend on the range hit the same 300yrd gong with his high tech slug gun.

Someone probably could hit it with a bow and arrow or handgun too with enough practice. That does not make it an effective hunting weapon at that range like a rifle is.

 

[BoB13]

I think it is a one shot then reload more than an accuracy issue in the primative firearms season.

 

[meth0d]

You are correct!!!
http://www.mass.gov/dfwele/dfw/regulations/regulations_coyotes.htm

The regs are confusing as fcuk but if you check out the link from a previous post, you'll find .17 calibers are legal for at least coyotes. Which Is good since .17 rem seems to be the caliber of choice over on coyote gods

Changes in Hunting Methods:

* The so-called "rifle ban" in the southeastern counties will no longer be issued. Hunters in those counties, as well as the rest of the state,will now be able to use rifles chambered equal to or larger than .22 caliber (including .17 caliber rifles), except as provided below:

a. During the period from ½ hour after sunset to ½ hour before sunrise, (nighttime hours) rifles are restricted to those chambered not larger than .22 long rifle.

b. Rifles of any kind may not be used on wildlife management areas stocked with pheasant or quail, during the pheasant and quail seasons.

 

[Coyote33]

You are correct!!!
http://www.mass.gov/dfwele/dfw/regulations/regulations_coyotes.htm

From that link:

There have also been changes in the allowable shot sizes. For the purpose of hunting coyotes, hunters may use shotgun cartridges with shot sizes up to and including FF (.230 inches diameter). However, shot sizes larger than #1 birdshot may not be used for hunting other game birds or mammals (including fox and bobcat), except for waterfowl as provided in the annual Migratory Game Bird Abstracts PDF icon. Also, in accordance with state law, cartridges loaded with slugs, single balls and buckshot may be used for hunting deer or coyotes only during the shotgun deer season.

 

[meth0d]

Yea, I've only gone out with my Mossy 500 and "Dead Coyote" T shot since it's deer season. After it ends, I'm hoping to pick up a .223 or .17 CZ or Sako.

Post #27 was intended to provide info that the .17 is legal for coyote, off shotgun deer season, I should have specified.

 

[Coyote33]

I am wondering if it makes more sense to buy a slug barrel and scope and all that for a Remington 870, or if I should just get an H&R package deal with everything. The H&R would be lighter, for sure, and I wouldn't be as worried about a few scratches, plus I could get it in 20 gauge, which would be easier on my shoulder (had surgery years ago), unless there is such a thing as reduced load slugs for 12 gauge, which I kind of doubt.