Rifle change of ownership

[GaryW]

Hey everyone,

I apologize if this was covered but I wanted to ask for some advice. My mom has a Remington 22LR she wants to transfer to me. I am awaiting my LTC-A to come in before taking it over from her.

I know long guns are a little different, do I need to do a FA-10 for a rifle? It's not a great piece of equipment (single action and no magazine since my dad lost it).

Just looking for a little info so I can transfer legally before I do who knows what... put trading it in for credit on a pistol is a rather certain outcome.

Thanks for your help!

 

[qwik88]

yes you must do a fa 10

 

[appraiser]

does mom have a valid FID or LTC?

answer depends on that.

Do you have a FID?

 

[GaryW]

I am not sure her FID is valid. I have applied for and been printed for a LTC-A ALP. Once I get that I can own it with no restrictions. I just need to know what to do. If her FID is expired what are the next steps, once I get my LTC?

 

[GaryW]

I am not sure her FID is valid. I have applied for and been printed for a LTC-A ALP. Once I get that I can own it with no restrictions. I just need to know what to do. If her FID is expired what are the next steps, once I get my LTC?

I asked her about the last time she renewed... I have an uncanny feeling it was before 1998... *sigh*

 

[waltherlover]

I am not sure her FID is valid. I have applied for and been printed for a LTC-A ALP. Once I get that I can own it with no restrictions. I just need to know what to do. If her FID is expired what are the next steps, once I get my LTC?

I asked her about the last time she renewed... I have an uncanny feeling it was before 1998... *sigh*

If her FID is expired, you will need to wait until your LTC arrives, and take her and the rifle to a dealer for a transfer. It's important to note that in the meantime, she is committing a felony having possession of the gun - especially if her FID was before 98. Those all got invalidated when the new laws came into effect.

Simple operation when you do get your LTC - just go to a MA state dealer and have them do a transfer. If you shop around you should be able to get it done for $25 or less.

 

[chopper_man]

She is not commiting a felony..... Once you get your license just go to a FFL and transfer it to you.
Currently under Massachusetts law, a citizen who is found to be in possession under an expired Firearm Identification Card (FID) or License to Carry (LTC) is exempt from the criminal penalties found in chapter 269 and is only subject to a civil fine.

 

[GaryW]

She is not commiting a felony..... Once you get your license just go to a FFL and transfer it to you.
Currently under Massachusetts law, a citizen who is found to be in possession under an expired Firearm Identification Card (FID) or License to Carry (LTC) is exempt from the criminal penalties found in chapter 269 and is only subject to a civil fine.

Thanks waltherlover & Chopper_Man. I will advise her -- I am not *certain* about the expiration. I need to follow up. It's something that the wood in the stock is worth more than the action is *laugh* I will talk to her about this.

 

[Len-2A Training]

She is not commiting a felony..... Once you get your license just go to a FFL and transfer it to you.
Currently under Massachusetts law, a citizen who is found to be in possession under an expired Firearm Identification Card (FID) or License to Carry (LTC) is exempt from the criminal penalties found in chapter 269 and is only subject to a civil fine.

THIS is the correct answer on all accounts.

 

[GaryW]

Thanks LenS!!

 

[GaryW]

This is a long shot... does this apply to someone else's 9mm Sig or a Colt 45 black powder revolver as well? These are far off, just curious... unless we have some renegade blimps :/

 

[Len-2A Training]

Does what apply?

Handgun transfers are handled the same as rifle.

BP guns don't need to go thru dealers nor do FA-10s get filed.

 

[GaryW]

I have a relative who has a BP Colt (Civil War era) that may not be stamped with a serial #. It's a muzzle loader from what I can remember. I believe it may have belonged to my great-great-great uncle who served in the Union Army and was in the 3rd? VT regiment.

I believe it might be a .45 but it might be a .40 or .42 smooth bore. I need to ask for more info. It's been ages since I saw it, it's in a secure lock box.

 

[FreeWillie]

I have a relative who has a BP Colt (Civil War era) that may not be stamped with a serial #. It's a muzzle loader from what I can remember. I believe it may have belonged to my great-great-great uncle who served in the Union Army and was in the 3rd? VT regiment.

I believe it might be a .45 but it might be a .40 or .42 smooth bore. I need to ask for more info. It's been ages since I saw it, it's in a secure lock box.

Anything prior to Jan 1 1899 is considered a relic. It's not considered a firearm so no serial number is required nor do you need a FFL to transfer ownership.

 

[KMaurer]

Also note that serial numbers were not required on any firearms prior to GCA'98. I've got several .22 rifles and other guns without any serial numbers, all perfectly legal.

Ken

 

[GaryW]

She told me they got it about 43 years ago so I think it perhaps has never been registered. She thought they had never registered it, which makes sense if it was before GCA-1998

 

[szaino]

Does what apply?

Handgun transfers are handled the same as rifle.

BP guns don't need to go thru dealers nor do FA-10s get filed.

Also,for BP rifle or shotgun, neither party needs to have any type of firearms license, they only need be 18 years old.

 

[GaryW]

Also,for BP rifle or shotgun, neither party needs to have any type of firearms license, they only need be 18 years old.

It's a Colt Naval Officer's revolver. My uncle got it at an auction years ago. He wasn't sure on all the details of it, it's been a while since he had looked at it, and even longer since I did. It's most certainly pre-1/1/1899 for manufacture.

 

[45collector]

She is not commiting a felony..... Once you get your license just go to a FFL and transfer it to you.
Currently under Massachusetts law, a citizen who is found to be in possession under an expired Firearm Identification Card (FID) or License to Carry (LTC) is exempt from the criminal penalties found in chapter 269 and is only subject to a civil fine.

I was always curious about this part of the law. Does that mean that someone who once had an FID or LTC could be in possession of a rifle or handgun without it being a felony even if their FID/LTC has been expired for years?

 

[Len-2A Training]

Yes

 

[Kevlar]

I was always curious about this part of the law. Does that mean that someone who once had an FID or LTC could be in possession of a rifle or handgun without it being a felony even if their FID/LTC has been expired for years?

I posted this in another thread, but I'll re-post it here.

Possession with an expired license is codified as a civil offense, but the courts have held that it is an affirmative defense, not a bar to prosecution...

General Laws c. 140, § 131(m), does not, by its terms, provide that certain violations of the firearms licensing statute be made totally and permanently noncriminal. [...] Rather, under the statute, unlicensed possession of a firearm remains a crime, but in limited circumstances the "innocent" offender is subject only to civil sanctions.

>snip<

General Laws c. 140, § 131(m), provides a statutory justification to a charge of carrying a firearm without a valid license, where the license has become invalid solely by virtue of its expiration as defined by the statute. As such, we think that it provides an affirmative defense to a criminal charge.

http://masscases.com/cases/app/64/64massappct854.html

...and this from MA criminal complaint manual...

G.L. c.140, §131(m) provides that, with some exceptions, “any person in possession of a firearm, rifle or shotgun whose license issued under this section is invalid for the sole reason that it has expired . . . shall be subject to a civil fine . . . and the provisions of section 10 of chapter 269 shall not apply.” Commonwealth v. Farley, 64 Mass. App. Ct. 854, 835 N.E.2d 1159 (2005), determined that a § 131(m) violation is not a separate criminal charge, but that § 131(m) instead creates “ a statutory defense to the crime of possession of a gun without a license to carry” under G.L. c. 269, § 10, which may be raised by a motion to dismiss. Neither § 131(m) nor the Farley decision indicate how the civil penalty may be sought in the first instance.

 

[inerlogic]

Also note that serial numbers were not required on any firearms prior to GCA'98. I've got several .22 rifles and other guns without any serial numbers, all perfectly legal.

Ken

just remember me in the will Ken