response on concealed carry from University president

[GLOCK.Perfection]

So I wrote this letter to the pres of Uconn yesterday....
President Michael Hogan,



I am writing in response to your letter about the shootings at Northern Illinois University, and campus safety. I think we all agree that something needs to be done as far as protecting students, faculty, and staff from these potential tragedies, but there is very little being done to effectively reduce these threats.

The truth is, a system of sirens, emails, and text messages are not going to stop a crazed gunman, and is not going to protect those in his path. There is no way one can really believe these measures would have done the victims of any of these mass shootings any good.

There is only one logical and practical way to protect the innocent from these types of incidents. That is allowing those who are licensed to carry a concealed weapon to do so on campus. Currently, Connecticut law does not prohibit the carrying of weapons by licensed individuals on campus. However University policy bans such a practice, with what one would assume to be very serious consequences, i.e. expulsion or firing. Unfortunately, a suicidal gunman is not going to obey this policy, only the law abiding citizens who could stop him will. The result? The gun free zone thus becomes a victim zone, perfect for a suicidal gunman. What better place to open fire on innocent individuals than a place where you know no one will be prepared to stop you?

Much of the public feels as though having armed students on campus is a recipe for disaster. After all there is undoubtedly a lot of partying and drinking in college, and adding firearms to the equation would be an unnecessary risk. However this argument has absolutely no basis. The truth is, especially at UConn, virtually all drinking and partying goes on at off campus houses and apartments. These are places where licensed individuals are allowed to carry already, and we haven't had any problems with licensed individuals becoming intoxicated and brandishing a weapon. Licensed individuals are responsible citizens. They know better than to carry and drink, and they don't. Also, the state of Utah is the one state that Universities have to allow licensed individuals to carry on campus, meaning that school policy cannot ban licensed individuals from carrying. Has there been people running in fear, or shooting each other at parties in Utah? No. Another argument that is brought up is that people do not feel safe knowing somebody is carrying a gun next to them. However, a licensed individual is carrying a concealed weapon. No one knows you are carrying because the firearm is not visible.

It would be fair to say that in the event of a crisis, UConn police can respond in about 2 t o3 minutes to any threat. But that just is not going to help. These shootings are over that quickly. The damage will be done before the police can stop the threat. This has been proven in Illinois and Virginia Tech.

I am not advocating for every student to be armed. Only those who are licensed would be carrying. In Connecticut that means the person is over 21, has been subjected to a background check, has a clean record, and has had training in firearms safety, and has been given a permit to carry from the state and local police. I would say that less than 3% of the population at Uconn would have a license to carry a firearm, and that is at the most. However in a lecture hall, 1 or 2 people is all it would take to stop a threat.

Putting personal feelings aside about firearms, we need to look at the facts. It is impossible to have metal detectors at every door of every building, or having armed guards or police in every class. Warning systems are not going save those who are in the immediate path of such disaster. The only possible way to stop these disasters, are by permitting those permit holders to carry on campus without fear of punishment from the University.



And as expected, i get a bull**** generic response....

Philip,

Thanks for your email and for sharing your thoughts about how we can
better protect ourselves. You understand very well the difficulties
presented to security officials in trying to prevent these kinds of
assaults. And, as you state in your message, there would be
considerable resistance to a policy that would allow licensed students
to carry concealed firearms on campus. There are also serious
logistical problems in coordinating armed citizens with an armed
response in an emergency on the part of security officers.

I'm aware of the SCCC's efforts to advance this solution and my senior
management team considers all options as we continue to work to improve
safety on our campuses. Thanks for writing.

Mike

Michael J. Hogan
President
University of Connecticut
352 Mansfield Road, Unit 2048
Storrs, CT 06269-2048
P: 860-486-2337
F: 860-486-2627

 

[Admin]

Moonbat.

 

[tele_mark]

What a tool.

 

[KimberCT]

As expected...

What's the SCCC when he says the following?

I'm aware of the SCCC's efforts to advance this solution...

 

[Tiktock]

My favorite: "There are also serious
logistical problems in coordinating armed citizens with an armed
response in an emergency on the part of security officers."

You mean, like in the 99.99% of the non-campus areas in this country where policemen need to "coordinate" with armed citizens in response to an emergency?

Campuses will not allow guns because sheep don't like the idea that others have guns, regardless of the absuridty of that view considering they are most likely around gun carrying citizens every day and don't know about it...just as they wouldn't know about it on campus.

 

[M1911]

Actually, I think his response is better than expected. Clearly concealed carry won't happen at UConn. But he didn't start raving about how all guns are bad as I might have expected.

 

[matt]

Nicely written letter on your part. You did a good job of making your case; you do us gun owners proud! +1 rep point for you!

I don't think you could expect much of a different response from the president than you got. I'm only surprised he did not completely shut down the idea, at least on paper (though he's likely thinking "over my dead body" or rather "over some pile of poor students dead bodies").

 

[Fsorrent]

As expected...

What's the SCCC when he says the following?

Students for Concealed Carry on Campus

 

[jhblaze1]

why does anyone give a shit about the school's approval for CCW anyway? I'm done with college and wasn't licensed then, but if i ever decide to take some night classes or something i will carry. Concealed means concealed. Like i give a shit if i get expelled after dropping a bad guy. Fvck the MA law that says i can't carry at a college too. Losing my license (or even facing criminal charges) will be the last thing on my mind if some nut job is blasting away in the lecture hall.

I'm all for putting pressure on legistraitors and other 'officials' but at the end of the day i care a lot more about my survival than some idiotic, illogical, and unconstitutional laws and rules.

 

[GLOCK.Perfection]

Im not letting this go quietly. I sent a copy of this letter to my school newspaper, which is miles left of liberal. To my amazement though the wrote back to me asking for more of my info, so i think they might print it monday.

However, the big thing is, despite my efforts, I cannot find anything that prohibits CCW in the school policy. I voiced this to the president and asked him to quote the policy where it prohibits carry. If there is none, and state law from all I can gather only prohibits carry at "primary" and "secondary" schools, then it looks like concealed carry being prohibited is just an assumption, and a wrong one at that. If the latter is the case, I willmake sure that the whole campus and CT papers know its technically OK to carry on campus.

 

[M1911]

why does anyone give a shit about the school's approval for CCW anyway?

For several reasons: 1) I work for a university, 2) it is against the law in MA and I really, really, really don't want to go jail, 3) I've got a really good job and after getting fired and released from jail I'd have a hard time getting a similar job, and 4) I rate the chances of accidentally printing at work to be far, far higher than the chances of needing my carry gun. YMMV.

Perhaps everyone else here is a Certified Concealed Carry Ninja (tm), but I've found that, for me at least, Murphy lives. A number of years back the Mrs. and I were having dinner at the home of some friends who are quite liberal. I was using pocket carry with an MK9, and my spare mag was in my left pocket. I was sitting down directly across from our hostess when I crossed my left leg over my right. The thunk that I heard was my spare mag falling out of my left pocket onto the floor. Her eyes got very wide as I bent over, scooped up the mag, and stuffed it back in my pocket as I continued my sentence as though nothing had happened. But she definitely saw it and realized what it was and the implication. If that had happened at work, I would have been arrested, jailed, lost my LTC forever, lost my job, had all my guns and ammo confiscated, and quite possibly lost my house.

You may be 100% confident that such a thing could never happen to you. But I, not being a Certified Concealed Carry Ninja, believe that something similar could happen to me again, despite the best of my efforts.

 

[M1911]

However, the big thing is, despite my efforts, I cannot find anything that prohibits CCW in the school policy. I voiced this to the president and asked him to quote the policy where it prohibits carry. If there is none, and state law from all I can gather only prohibits carry at "primary" and "secondary" schools, then it looks like concealed carry being prohibited is just an assumption, and a wrong one at that. If the latter is the case, I willmake sure that the whole campus and CT papers know its technically OK to carry on campus.

Of course, if you do that, they'll just create such a policy.

 

[KimberCT]

Here is what I consider a major flaw in our argument for concealed carry on campus.

We keep asking these colleges to allow us to carry, when we should be telling them to stop denying us our right to carry.

 

[GLOCK.Perfection]

ok. well I found an article in our school paper dated october of 2007 about the empty holster protest at UConn. It appears that the Dean of Students was "the biggest opponent" of the protest. in the article the dean is quoted as saying:
"The University is state property and as such, prohibits weapons being carried, concealed or not," said Williams. "This is a state statute, not a position."

Now that turns out to be completely wrong. So I emailed her calling her out on this quote. Her response? "I was told that, but incorrectly. Carrying weapons is a violation of the Student Code, however."

So I in turn forwarded her the letter I wrote to the President and asked how "we" could go about changing this policy so that faculty and students can protect themselves from tragedies like at virginia tech and Illinois. I cant wait for her response getting the ball rolling on changing this policy.

 

[Killjoy]

Carrying weapons is a violation of the Student Code, however."

I didn't realize the Student Code superseded state law.

Excellent letter, BTW.

 

[In_God_We_Trust]

There are also serious logistical problems in coordinating armed citizens with an armed response in an emergency on the part of security officers.

Seems easy enough to me: Students, when an unstable and insane person starts shooting, please drop that SOB where they are standing. That way, we can disarm the emergency response and deescalate the situation by calling a coroner.

Seems very logical to me!

 

[jcr]

Do many revolver carriers take along speed loaders?

I think many carry a spare magazine because they can. Admittedly, they choose pistols over revolvers so they can have a spare mag.

Threat assessment: Dinner with liberals -- 6 rounds are enough.

 

[Jose]

You have to be alive to be expelled. Since it isn't against the law to carry a concealed handgun in a CT university, DO IT!

 

[M1911]

Threat assessment: Dinner with liberals -- 6 rounds are enough.

The liberals themselves were harmless enough. It was the neighborhood. And six rounds definitely wasn't enough in THAT neighborhood.

 

[GLOCK.Perfection]

to be honest, im making all this noise and i dont even have an ltc. Im only 20. But next year i intend to have my ma ltc and my CT handgun permit. That said it will be a tough decision whether or not to carry. To be expelled in my senior year would really suck. Nonetheless I will be fighting the policy regardless, I am going to try to become the official campus rep of uconn for sccc.


Thanks for the compliments on the letter.

 

[Jose]

To be expelled in my senior year would really suck.

It would suck more to be dead.

Given how 99% of college students dress, you can get away with hiding an N frame easily.

 

[dwarven1]

Do many revolver carriers take along speed loaders?

There's a J-frame in my right front pocket at the moment. The speedloader is in my left front pocket along with my wallet. 5 rounds is NOT enough. 10 is marginal but I'll be ordering a couple of Safariland speedloaders in my next Midway order. Just got to figure out how to carry two concealed...

 

[EddieCoyle]

Let's break this down FJM style.

Philip,

Thanks for your email and for sharing your thoughts about how we can better protect ourselves. You understand very well the difficulties presented to security officials in trying to prevent these kinds of assaults.

"These kinds of assaults" can't be prevented. Period. There's no way that any level of moonbattery can make a mad man not shoot people. If someone wants to come to a school and start blasting, there's no way to "prevent" it.

On the other hand, I can't recall the last mass shooting that took place in a police squad room, gun club meeting, or NRA convention. Can anybody? No? ... I thought not.

And, as you state in your message, there would be considerable resistance to a policy that would allow licensed students to carry concealed firearms on campus.

Considerable resistance from ME, the rest of the faculty, and any students that prefer to deny that bad people exist rather than face up the fact that there is evil in the world. Making pretend it doesn't exist does not prevent it from showing up in your classroom.

There are also serious logistical problems in coordinating armed citizens with an armed response in an emergency on the part of security officers.

There is no, and never will be any "coordination" needed. Ever. The action is long finished by the time any law enforcement shows up. Look at what's happened - when the cops show up, the bad guy kills himself. In other words, the bad guy is not looking to "shoot it out". When he's met with even the thought of resistance, he eats his gun. Well, there's a great reason to prevent concelaed carry.

I'm aware of the SCCC's efforts to advance this solution and my senior management team considers all options as we continue to work to improve safety on our campuses. Thanks for writing.

Mike

Translation: f*** you. I'm so indoctrinated into the victim's way of thinking, I can't even begin to open my mind to any other possibility. Thanks for writing.

You have to be alive to be expelled. Since it isn't against the law to carry a concealed handgun in a CT university, DO IT!

I agree. Concealed means concealed.

It would suck more to be dead.

Agreed. Way more. You have to be alive to be fired or expelled.

 

[Jose]

I tell you this. There is NO WAY IN HELL that I would attend any classes at Yale without at least my 915, 30 rounds of ammo, a knife, and some serious OC spray.

Anyone been to New Haven lately?

 

[K-DUB]

why does anyone give a shit about the school's approval for CCW anyway?

With all due respect, I GIVE A SH*T about the school's policy regarding CCW.

I've been out of school for years, but I occasionally have to return to take courses at different schools, as well as teach an adult education class at a local high school one night a week, in the summer. I have a sister that is still in college.

That's why I give a sh*t.

As you said, I can choose to ignore the law, but that is not the point. We shouldn't be put in that position to begin with.

 

[Jose]

With all due respect, I GIVE A SH*T about the school's policy regarding CCW.

I've been out of school for years, but I occasionally have to return to take courses at different schools, as well as teach an adult education class at a local high school one night a week, in the summer. I have a sister that is still in college.

That's why I give a sh*t.

As you said, I can choose to ignore the law, but that is not the point. We shouldn't be put in that position to begin with.

There is a significant distinction between law and policy.

 

[JonJ]

Anyone been to New Haven lately?

Yes and I had to get gas while there at about 10pm. A car load of a-holes drove in and it was one of the few times my wife asked, "You are carrying tonight, right?"

 

[Admin]

There is a significant distinction between law and policy.

+1 Significant and big difference.

 

[K-DUB]

There is a significant distinction between law and policy.

I agree. I'm not saying what I would or wouldn't do to protect myself, but when the policy is wrong, we should try to change it, instead of submitting to it.

 

[Rob Boudrie]

There is a significant distinction between law and policy.

And considerable overlap in some circumstances. If a MA university adopted a policy of permitting LTC-A holders to carry on campus, it change campus carry at that university from a crime to an act of good citizenship.

Currently, "special" people can get such permission. Do you really think a big name donor who arrives with private security is told they must disarm? There there was the university president who wrote himself a letter of permission in MA.