Police in Mass

[mark056]

Masscops is not a good place to go if you want to know what cops think. I know a lot of cops and every single one of them is very pro 2A. Not just for them, but for everyone. Unfortunately, many of them also believe that reasonable restrictions and licensing is a good thing. Some of them believe that licensing somehow keeps illegal guns off the street and out of the hands of criminals. This is probably just a result of living your whole life in a state like MA.

Nobody I knew growing up owned more than a shotgun for hunting and that was always locked up and rarely shot. When I first started meeting guys that CCW, I was a little weirded out by it. Not from some personal belief against guns, but just because I was a product of my environment.

I think that is a good estimation of the situation especially the last paragraph which is why the Fudds are the way they are. The late 1940's, 1950's and early 1960's were pretty benign times for a huge segment of the American population. In many respects we were more homogenous, and there was a lot more cultural consensus even among those who were not totally enfranchised into the system, than there is today. We saw ourselves as a "melting pot" where newly arrived Americans worked on learning the language and assimilation. I know that many sociologists and historians would dispute the reality of that last sentence, but in terms of belief and worldview, that's where we were at. Belief, worldview whatever you want to call it, shapes the culture. In the safe and serene world that many of us inhabited back in that day, why would you need anything more than a shotgun or rifle?

Guns and gun control are not a major blip on most people's radar screen and if you think so, look at the SC primary. People living in the urban northeast in major population centers and suburbs, who are not part of 'gun culture" just don't get it the way most of us do here.

We have seen a sea change with regard to CCW nationwide, in the past decade, I do not foresee much of a change in the way things are done in Massachusetts though.

Growing up in the gun culture state of Arizona I find it ironic that back in the day, when open carry was permitted and few restrictions on gun ownership, people wanted to be able to get CCW licenses. It took many years for this to happen there.

Most of the police officers that I work with are not really into guns, and probably think the current system is jut fine. A few are very pro-2A and there are a few who would ban all firearms for civilians, but most are in the middle and reflect the environment that they grew up in.

 

[mark056]

I kind of doubt that a chief would flatly refuse to issue an LTC to an officer in his own town that also lived in his town.
For one, how do you buy ammo, etc?

You wouldn't, you would rely on whatever you were issued.

Most cops are going to have an LTC before they even apply for a job.

Are you sure about that? I'm not.

As for the proverbial question of how pro/anti cops are, those that hit on the "product of their environment" are pretty much dead on.

I think you are dead-on.

Most cops I know are flat out nuts into guns as much as I am. The big difference is they think laws work and they tend not to have much of a problem with the current system in MA. This is where they are wrong.

Your anecdotal experience is far different from mine. Most cops I know are not gun nuts, and some think that we are nuts with guns. You tend to hang out with people who like guns, and people who are cops. I wouldn't call you a "cop groupie" but you are going to hang out with people who are into the same things you are: guns and law enforcement. (IMO) I agree with your point that a lot of Mass cops tend not to have a problem with the current system, nor would you if you were virtually guaranteed an unrestricted license (not one hundred percent, but true in the majority of cases) high cap magazines, no one hundred dollar license fee, and access to virtually any firearm available in free states. If I had those perks, I'd be happy with the status quo too, even if I were prohibited from carrying my duty gun off duty, I'd still have my 4th Gen Hi Cap Glock, for at least part of the day, for example.

Still , the number of cops who are at least casual gun people is way higher than 10% in MA, Id say more like 85%, at least.

I'd put it higher than 10% but certainly not 85%. A lot of cops who have privately owned weapons have them because it is Job motivated, to have an off duty carry piece, for instance, or perhaps something for the significant other and maybe an old .22 or shotgun that was handed down to them from a relative, or they purchased a special commemorative model produced for their department's 100th anniversary or something like that.

It does not matter whether its Mass or Utah or North Dakota or wherever, the best shooters and biggest gun enthusiasts I meet tend to be neither LE nor Military.

I agree one hundred percent. For most LEOs and military members, a firearm is just another piece of equipment.

In the case of a town where the Chief has the officers carry on the badge, there is still a way to get a LTC, even if the LEO lives in that town. You will recall that the MSP is the 352nd agency that can also issue licenses, and I know that LTCs from the MSP are issued to individuals who are not MSP members. I'm not saying that it is automatic, but I am sure to a high degree of certainty almost any LEO carrying on the badge, can get an LTC from the MSP.

 

[maglock]

Boston PD does not allow their officers to have an LTC until they have been on the job for 1 year. They even go so far as to take away their LTC if they have one for that first year. Supposedly, the reason is to force them to carry their duty weapon when off duty, if they want to carry.

 

[Len-2A Training]

I'm with Mark on this one.

My anecdotal experience is with a small town department that has varied from ~25 to 30 FT sworn officers over the last >35 years. Officers have come and gone (retired or left for other depts), but the number who are shooters/gun people has never been more than a handful on the department at any one time.

I've literally given up on offering free range time as my guest to members of my former department. Nobody has ever taken me up on the offer, made many more times than I can recall.

They just don't care and as one or more have told me: if the chief won't give them the ammo, pay them for the range time (OT) and someone else will clean their gun afterwards, they just aren't interested. And every one of them is pulling down >$100K/year with OT included, so they should be able to afford the ammo and cleaning kit . . . if they cared.

 

[Mike_]

Boston PD does not allow their officers to have an LTC until they have been on the job for 1 year. They even go so far as to take away their LTC if they have one for that first year. Supposedly, the reason is to force them to carry their duty weapon when off duty, if they want to carry.

And what happens to currently owned firearms?

 

[M1911]

Boston PD does not allow their officers to have an LTC until they have been on the job for 1 year. They even go so far as to take away their LTC if they have one for that first year.

Good Lord.

 

[GSG]

I believe that I read on another forum that many police agencies in Mass do not allow, or issue restricted licenses to their officers for off duty carry. Is this true?

Yes. Both Boston & Worcester have, more too.

I have heard of part time cops getting a work restriction on their LTC if they live in a red town, but never a full timer.

It's definitely happened to full time municipal cops, recently too.

For a cop to be a gun enthusiast is about as logical as being a ballpoint pen, flashlight, or handcuffs collector. It's just another tool.

Exactly. For most their job would be made easier & they'd see more immediate positive results by studying up on DUI procedures, report writing, 209A's, etc.

I believe even if there were, it would fall to the state police to issue it. IIRC the law says if there is no police chief it falls to the staties.

Basically yes.

the only thing is that county government has been eliminated in at least half of Massachusetts 14 counties.

Statewide, they were all stripped of authority in the summer of 1998.

Dunno man, if i was on a job where my life potentially depended on my ability in using a weapon, i'd certainly be a weapon enthusiast.

Their life rides on them using a radio, laptop, flashlight, and vehicle correctly 40+ hours a week too. How many cops know the frequency their portable operates on, or the displacement of their engine, or how many lumens their flashlight puts out? A gunfight starts well before 1st contact, many are won simply by showing the opponent that they'd lose if they started it, but you're talking about bringing a lot of work home. Law enforcement is a job like any other.

I was a product of my environment.

+1

Boston PD does not allow their officers to have an LTC until they have been on the job for 1 year. They even go so far as to take away their LTC if they have one for that first year. Supposedly, the reason is to force them to carry their duty weapon when off duty, if they want to carry.

You're not the 1st person I've heard this from.

 

[Cuz]

I know one northern MA PD where the chief tells the guys they 'carry on the badge'...no LTC is issued.

Seems to me then they wouldn't be able to purchase ammo anywhere in MA. That badge doesn't mean anything at the Walmart counter...