Plus and/or negative to adding a pistol grip to a home defense shotgun?

[M60]

The assault weapons ban law. Unless your shotgun is pre 1994, it is illegal in MA to have both a pistol grip and a magazine with more than 5 rounds. One or the other is fine, but not both.

edited to add: this is specific to semi-auto shotguns. It doesn’t apply to pump-action shotguns.

I suspect that there are a lot of people who are unknowingly violating that law.

I bought the M1 Super 90 in 1991, so I'm fine, but you're correct in that some others might not know.

 

[not new guy]

What is a concern, however, is whether the 8 round tube itself is a banned high capacity feeding device.

I'm sure this has been beaten to death on here but any shotgun mag > 5rds is an LCFD regardless of whether it's on a semi, pump, or just sitting in a closet somewhere.

''Large capacity feeding device'', (i) a fixed or detachable magazine, box, drum, feed strip or similar device capable of accepting, or that can be readily converted to accept, more than ten rounds of ammunition or more than five shotgun shells; or (ii) a large capacity ammunition feeding device as defined in the federal Public Safety and Recreational Firearms Use Protection Act, 18 U.S.C. section 921(a)(31) as appearing in such section on September 13, 1994. The term ''large capacity feeding device'' shall not include an attached tubular device designed to accept, and capable of operating only with,.22 caliber ammunition.

No person shall sell, offer for sale, transfer or possess an assault weapon or a large capacity feeding device that was not otherwise lawfully possessed on September 13, 1994. Whoever not being licensed under the provisions of section 122 violates the provisions of this section shall be punished, for a first offense, by a fine of not less than $1,000 nor more than $10,000 or by imprisonment for not less than one year nor more than ten years, or by both such fine and imprisonment, and for a second offense, by a fine of not less than $5,000 nor more than $15,000 or by imprisonment for not less than five years nor more than 15 years, or by both such fine and imprisonment

Is that right? Are there arguments that see this a different way?

 

[PatMcD]

A pistol grip on a 500 is almost as retarded as those "birdshead" grips on the Shockwave.

 

[M1911]

I'm sure this has been beaten to death on here but any shotgun mag > 5rds is an LCFD regardless of whether it's on a semi, pump, or just sitting in a closet somewhere.





Is that right? Are there arguments that see this a different way?

I‘ve heard some claim that since a pump shotgun isn’t a large capacity shotgun that therefore tubular magazines for a pump shotgun aren’t large capacity feeding devices. I don’t find that logic convincing. I’d love to hear about a legal precedent one way or the other.

Perhaps @nstassel might weigh in?

 

[nstassel]

I‘ve heard some claim that since a pump shotgun isn’t a large capacity shotgun that therefore tubular magazines for a pump shotgun aren’t large capacity feeding devices. I don’t find that logic convincing. I’d love to hear about a legal precedent one way or the other.

Perhaps @nstassel might weigh in?

The police seem to take the view that once it's attached to a shotgun the tube isn't a feeding device any longer. I have heard this was taught by Glidden but isn't in the book.

 

[M1911]

The police seem to take the view that once it's attached to a shotgun the tube isn't a feeding device any longer. I have heard this was taught by Glidden but isn't in the book.

That’s a curious bit of logic.

 

[chris_1001]

I'm sure this has been beaten to death on here but any shotgun mag > 5rds is an LCFD regardless of whether it's on a semi, pump, or just sitting in a closet somewhere.





Is that right? Are there arguments that see this a different way?

Too lazy to look it up for the “cite” folk

But +5 tubes on pumps are ok. With normal grips and pistol grips

Ok (+5) on non pistol grip shotguns with fixed stocks

And federal ass pounding prison with +5 and a pistol grip.

 

[wcorey]

The police seem to take the view that once it's attached to a shotgun the tube isn't a feeding device any longer. I have heard this was taught by Glidden but isn't in the book.

As well as that the tube can't retain shells on it's own when detached...

 

[nstassel]

As well as that the tube can't retain shells on it's own when detached...

Good point.

 

[M1911]

As well as that the tube can't retain shells on it's own when detached...

That is a good point that I never considered before. Thank you.

 

[Mesatchornug]

As well as that the tube can't retain shells on it's own when detached...

Nor can the body of any other magazine...

 

[Retired-LEO]

In my opinion having a full stock with the added pistol grip (like this one from ATI) gives inexperienced shooters better control of the shotgun,

in a home defense setting. Plus having an adjustable length of pull (keeping it the shortest) for home defense makes it easier to maneuver

through doorways and hallways. Yet is can be extended for range trips or hunting to a better fit. It's not a bad idea to leave a set of electronic

muffs near any home defense firearm. Firing a firearm without hearing protection will likely damage your ears permanently.

I have permanent ear damage and tinnitus from many decades of shooting indoors. I always wore my hearing protection,

but failed to wear both ear plugs and muffs (indoors while shooting until I permanently damaged my ears).

For indoor range shooting please wear both ear plugs and ear muffs.

 

[Andy in NH]

As well as that the tube can't retain shells on it's own when detached...

Nor can the body of any other magazine...

Please expand on that.

 

[kalash]

Plus having an adjustable length of pull (keeping it the shortest) for home defense makes it easier to maneuver
through doorways and hallways.

I struggle to think of a scenario where I'm having to navigate doorways with my shotgun - that's what a handgun is for.

 

[whatluck]

you can high shoulder a shotgun for peeking around corners.

i'll add this, that a pistol grip shotgun is easier to retain in a hand to hand fight. It gives you a extra leverage to use if someone's trying to take the weapon from you.

 

[PatMcD]

you can high shoulder a shotgun for peeking around corners.

i'll add this, that a pistol grip shotgun is easier to retain in a hand to hand fight. It gives you a extra leverage to use if someone's trying to take the weapon from you.

I don't see it.
I think a traditional grip gives just as much "retention", with the added benefit that it gives a much more controllable "butt-stroke" to any potential perp's face.

 

[chris_1001]

I don't see it.
I think a traditional grip gives just as much "retention", with the added benefit that it gives a much more controllable "butt-stroke" to any potential perp's face.

You are missing the point.

Pistol grips and adjustable stocks make shotguns extra killy.

Assault shotguns for the win. Ask mura.

 

[whatluck]

I don't see it.
I think a traditional grip gives just as much "retention", with the added benefit that it gives a much more controllable "butt-stroke" to any potential perp's face.

A pistol grip gives you another possible fulcrum.

 

[chris_1001]

A pistol grip gives you another possible fulcrum.

Kinda thinking you are over thinking it. If they get that close you messed up.

Which is why I prefer pistols vs long arms.

 

[whatluck]

Kinda thinking you are over thinking it. If they get that close you messed up.

Which is why I prefer pistols vs long arms.

Sure, I agree that people shouldn't get that close. But shit happens and fights pretty much never go the way we want. In a fight I want every advantage I can get. So all my home defense long guns have some kind of extra fulcrum attached. But Ive drilled this to death, I call it the Rittenhouse drill.

 

[chris_1001]

Sure, I agree that people shouldn't get that close. But shit happens and fights pretty much never go the way we want. In a fight I want every advantage I can get. So all my home defense long guns have some kind of extra fulcrum attached. But Ive drilled this to death, I call it the Rittenhouse drill.

I agree on the “fulcrum” point in principle. But I’m not setting up an HD gun to exploit that.

I could have bought a benelli m4. But I love my m2. And it’s not my go to.

But my set up’s for HD are pretty simple and not over thinking so many what if’s and details.

 

[whatluck]

I agree on the “fulcrum” point in principle. But I’m not setting up an HD gun to exploit that.

I could have bought a benelli m4. But I love my m2. And it’s not my go to.

But my set up’s for HD are pretty simple and not over thinking so many what if’s and details.

If I happen to have really good unarmed combat training I'm going to apply those principles to wherever I think I could possibly ever exploit their advantage. BTW shotguns are HUNGRY and run out of ammo fast. Most of shotgun training is keeping the thing fed. Move, shoot, cover, reload, repeat. Hungry like a 300 lb girlfriend. Not unreasonable to think a shotgun could turn into a club pretty fast in a fight. Parry and move your feet to the outside. Simple stuff that you can burn into muscle memory.

All that matters is hits. This is why these conversations are so much fun. They're vehemently personal.

 

[chris_1001]

If I happen to have really good unarmed combat training I'm going to apply those principles to wherever I think I could possibly ever exploit their advantage. BTW shotguns are HUNGRY and run out of ammo fast. Most of shotgun training is keeping the thing fed. Move, shoot, cover, reload, repeat. Hungry like a 300 lb girlfriend. Not unreasonable to think a shotgun could turn into a club pretty fast in a fight. Parry and move your feet to the outside. Simple stuff that you can burn into muscle memory.

All that matters is hits. This is why these conversations are so much fun. They're vehemently personal.

I’m not going to play internet operator, promise!

But I’m not using a shotgun for HD. It’s my 3-gun shotgun. Lives in a safe.

one of my go to’s.

10 round mag (plus one in the pipe) of 230 grain goodness.

I really think it will work in 95% of situations.

If I need more, then it’s full on go time and I’m reaching for my AR

 

[whatluck]

I’m not going to play internet operator, promise!

But I’m not using a shotgun for HD. It’s my 3-gun shotgun. Lives in a safe.

one of my go to’s.

10 round mag (plus one in the pipe) of 230 grain goodness.

I really think it will work in 95% of situations.

If I need more, then it’s full on go time and I’m reaching for my AR

View attachment 798346

Not a bad choice. Nothing operator about it. It's just about what works. I used to be all about handgun when I lived in braintree but now I have a lot more space. Nothing says 'f*** you get out of my house' like 9 00 buck pellets moving at 1600 fps.

 

[chris_1001]

Not a bad choice. Nothing operator about it. It's just about what works. I used to be all about handgun when I lived in braintree but now I have a lot more space. Nothing says 'f*** you get out of my house' like 9 00 buck pellets moving at 1600 fps.

Nah, just meant don’t listen to me for HD advice. I’m just a guy on NES with my own preferences

I do not want to be encumbered by a long gun trying to work/clear my house. The fulcrum works both ways. I grab your barrel as you peek out of your bedroom and pop you, game over.

 

[whatluck]

Nah, just meant don’t listen to me for HD advice. I’m just a guy on NES with my own preferences

I do not want to be encumbered by a long gun trying to work/clear my house. The fulcrum works both ways. I grab your barrel as you peek out of your bedroom and pop you, game over.

Depends. I have to move my feet and make sure you get the short end of the stick. This is why I wanna be able to pry in 3 dimensions.

 

[M1911]

Nor can the body of any other magazine...

Other magazines contain springs and followers. The tube of a shotgun magazine on its own can't retain a spring or follower or rounds. So you can argue that it is a different kind of thing.

 

[chris_1001]

Depends. I have to move my feet and make sure you get the short end of the stick. This is why I wanna be able to pry in 3 dimensions.

Again. Dynamics. They are just that, dynamic and you can’t plan for everything, so my plan is to be simple and flexible.

My plan is the simplest way to eliminate the threat.

My .02. And I’ll give you change.

 

[whatluck]

Again. Dynamics. They are just that, dynamic and you can’t plan for everything, so my plan is to be simple and flexible.

My plan is the simplest way to eliminate the threat.

My .02. And I’ll give you change.

At least I'm not making the old 'the clack clack sound makes attackers run away' argument

 

[Atlantis]

I've got a Mossberg 500 with a pistol grip butstock. It's on the inside of my safe door, in "cruiser mode"; (round in the chamber, but action partly open). I like it better than with the original stock.

While similar, that is not a traditional "Cruiser ready" mode. Typically you would ensure chamber is empty, dry fire to unlock the action, and leave it off safe, on a empty chamber, with a full magazine. I think you might get a +1 the way you are doing it, but you do need to remember to rack forward which is a little less intuitive than the standard pump action. Worst case I think under duress you might just eject the +1 by racking a new round in instead of closing the action. Semantics, but yeah, cruiser ready is hammer down on an empty chamber, safety off.

You are doing like "enhanced cool guy cruiser ready".

Pistol grip on a 500? Lol why? That thing is designed for tang safety and slide release with a bare stock. Want a pistol grip, get a tactical shottie engineered that way.

But who was cross bolt Maverick 88?