People who now want a gun but can't get them thanks to our laws

garandman

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Good luck with that. There is no way someone who has been anti gun and who has voted Democrat his whole life is suddenly going to start vsupporting conservatives, and join a group like the NRA, and vote to keep Trump in office just because they want a gun today. I just don't believe it.
1. Even in Massachusetts more voters are Independent than Democrat or Republican - combined. True nationally as well.
2. Many of the people here are not in GOAL, GONH, NRA, etc .
3. In the real world, people change their minds.

Y’all are one tiny step from playing the victim card.
 
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They won't accept a 5 year old class certificate either, at least in my town.
I got my LTC from Hamilton about 2 weeks ago, and used my Hunter Ed from sept 2001. Keep in mind guys that not everyone who wants to buy a gun now is a liberal or panic-buying due to a crisis. I interviewed with PD in January before any talk of covid, and was planning on heading to KTP the day I got my license to pick up a 12ga. A week before I got my license Kittery had at least 50 used 870s for sale, the week I got it they had like 4. I have a friend in the same boat as me, got his LTC a week ago and we’re both right wing and both SOL
 

42!

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Good luck with that. There is no way someone who has been anti gun and who has voted Democrat his whole life is suddenly going to start vsupporting conservatives, and join a group like the NRA, and vote to keep Trump in office just because they want a gun today. I just don't believe it.
Let's apply a simple cost/benefit analysis to trying to move a long time lib/dem/anti to a more understanding position on guns.
1. The person is/has been a hard core anti.
2. There is a tiny possibility of getting them to be less anti, maybe even pro. They may continue to say they are Dem and have other Lib positions, but there is a small possibility of less resistance, even support, of less gun oppression.
3. Your actual cost in engaging them, NOTHING.
4. Worst case, nothing changes.
5. Best case, one less in opposition, maybe even a supporter.
Conclusion, with a cost of nothing, and a potential benefit of a gun rights supporter it's clear which is the better choice.

"It would not be perfect. Perfect is the enemy of the good, because, those who insist on perfect prevent the good from ever happening."

I grew up in a hard core Lib/Dem family, in a town that I call Libral Central. When I was a kid it was the people at the local F&G that convinced my Mother (divorced parents) to let me take up target shooting. The example they set and their open and fair attitude is what let me escape the cult. That and the game dinners were awesome. As an adult I've caused many Liberals to question their long time beliefs, who knows, some may someday see the light. The fight is a marathon, not a sprint.
 

Uzi2

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Let's apply a simple cost/benefit analysis to trying to move a long time lib/dem/anti to a more understanding position on guns.
1. The person is/has been a hard core anti.
2. There is a tiny possibility of getting them to be less anti, maybe even pro. They may continue to say they are Dem and have other Lib positions, but there is a small possibility of less resistance, even support, of less gun oppression.
3. Your actual cost in engaging them, NOTHING.
4. Worst case, nothing changes.
5. Best case, one less in opposition, maybe even a supporter.
Conclusion, with a cost of nothing, and a potential benefit of a gun rights supporter it's clear which is the better choice.

"It would not be perfect. Perfect is the enemy of the good, because, those who insist on perfect prevent the good from ever happening."

I grew up in a hard core Lib/Dem family, in a town that I call Libral Central. When I was a kid it was the people at the local F&G that convinced my Mother (divorced parents) to let me take up target shooting. The example they set and their open and fair attitude is what let me escape the cult. That and the game dinners were awesome. As an adult I've caused many Liberals to question their long time beliefs, who knows, some may someday see the light. The fight is a marathon, not a sprint.
A cost of nothing? BS!!!

The price/cost has already been paid 150,000,000 times over by gun owners being subjected to decades of aggravation, oppression of rights, permit fees, legal fees, constant harassment, outright discrimination, subjected to the whims of a communist legislature, attorney general, police chiefs, and generally being looked upon as second class citizens.
 

Uzi2

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I got my LTC from Hamilton about 2 weeks ago, and used my Hunter Ed from sept 2001. Keep in mind guys that not everyone who wants to buy a gun now is a liberal or panic-buying due to a crisis. I interviewed with PD in January before any talk of covid, and was planning on heading to KTP the day I got my license to pick up a 12ga. A week before I got my license Kittery had at least 50 used 870s for sale, the week I got it they had like 4. I have a friend in the same boat as me, got his LTC a week ago and we’re both right wing and both SOL
You need an LTC to buy an 870?

Did you not have an FID before that or are those gone now?
 

HARRYM

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1. Even in Massachusetts more voters are Independent than Democrat or Republican - combined. True nationally as well.
2. Many of the people here are not in GOAL, GONH, NRA, etc .
3. In the real world, people change their minds.

Y’all are one tiny step from playing the victim card.
Massachusetts is the most Liberal State in America with 36%-37% identifying themselves as Liberal. I could care less what they register as it's how they vote that matters.
 

42!

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A cost of nothing? BS!!!

The price/cost has already been paid 150,000,000 times over by gun owners being subjected to decades of aggravation, oppression of rights, permit fees, legal fees, constant harassment, outright discrimination, subjected to the whims of a communist legislature, attorney general, police chiefs, and generally being looked upon as second class citizens.
You're right, we need to cure your butthurt with some reparations.

I get it, things have, and do, suck. My quote about perfect being the enemy of good is particularly relevant. If all we do is shut down the discussion because of the past, we guarantee it will never get better. And that person who could be an ally, certainly won't be if we push him/her away.

You don't have the numbers to get any positive change in MA. So keep bitching about it, it's not going anywhere. Or you can try to increase you numbers.

What's your solution? keep pushing away any potential help and cry victim?

Serious question, What's your solution?
 

Wickedcoolname

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Let's apply a simple cost/benefit analysis to trying to move a long time lib/dem/anti to a more understanding position on guns.
1. The person is/has been a hard core anti.
2. There is a tiny possibility of getting them to be less anti, maybe even pro. They may continue to say they are Dem and have other Lib positions, but there is a small possibility of less resistance, even support, of less gun oppression.
3. Your actual cost in engaging them, NOTHING.
4. Worst case, nothing changes.
5. Best case, one less in opposition, maybe even a supporter.
Conclusion, with a cost of nothing, and a potential benefit of a gun rights supporter it's clear which is the better choice.

"It would not be perfect. Perfect is the enemy of the good, because, those who insist on perfect prevent the good from ever happening."

I grew up in a hard core Lib/Dem family, in a town that I call Libral Central. When I was a kid it was the people at the local F&G that convinced my Mother (divorced parents) to let me take up target shooting. The example they set and their open and fair attitude is what let me escape the cult. That and the game dinners were awesome. As an adult I've caused many Liberals to question their long time beliefs, who knows, some may someday see the light. The fight is a marathon, not a sprint.
Pissing into the wind doesn't cost much either. I'll pass.
 

G Port

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do it for sport, Wicked. It's best to engage a hard core progressive in front of a group of fence sitters. Progressive arguments are quickly exposed for the emotionally based drivel they are. Also, very quickly the progressive will run out of talking points and degenerate into a personal attack (racist, homophobe, etc,,) It is at this point that they, and their positions, are revealed as unintelligent, hypocritical, and infantile. Ask a white progressive how he can support an affirmative action system that puts his own children or grandchildren at a disadvantage. Or point to one of the fence sitters and ask "why should a foreign child in his teens who flaunted all law and walked across the border get preferential treatment in college admission over his kid (the fence sitter).

It's really a lot of fun
 

Uzi2

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You're right, we need to cure your butthurt with some reparations.

I get it, things have, and do, suck. My quote about perfect being the enemy of good is particularly relevant. If all we do is shut down the discussion because of the past, we guarantee it will never get better. And that person who could be an ally, certainly won't be if we push him/her away.

You don't have the numbers to get any positive change in MA. So keep bitching about it, it's not going anywhere. Or you can try to increase you numbers.

What's your solution? keep pushing away any potential help and cry victim?

Serious question, What's your solution?
Let me preface my response with " I don't live in MA now, but did for most of my life"

I am fully aware of and have been a victim of the situation there more than once and despise it more than you could ever know.......waaaaay more than you could ever know.

Nobody is pushing away the antis......the antis are just standing in their own pile of self created shit with all the flies buzzing around......and damned well they should be. They routinely and unabashedly ( for decades) voted for and placed into office, people who were openly anti gun and ran on that as their platforms, without the slightest hesitation, rational thought or consideration for even their own general welfare in hard times. Well brother..... Hard Times be knocking on the door.

You act as if current gun owners and licensees somehow conspired to create the present situation and appear to be placing some type of ownus on them/us to change the situation at hand as if we owe it to ourselves to sacrifice out time effort and expense to change the minds of people who won't even save themselves.

My solution? Ignore them for the dumb fvcks that they are and let THEM resolve their own issues. I never (and I'd venture a good guess nobody else has) had an anti sympathizing with me in my battles.....I fought them....and WON.....everytime.

They need to learn things the hard way.....that's just their nature and I'll do nothing to stand in the way of them learning this wonderful lesson in life.
 

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1. Even in Massachusetts more voters are Independent than Democrat or Republican - combined. True nationally as well.
2. Many of the people here are not in GOAL, GONH, NRA, etc .
3. In the real world, people change their minds.

Y’all are one tiny step from playing the victim card.
I'm already playing the victim card. I'm a victim of Maura Healey having denied me full use of my constitutional rights. I don't feel that it was any sort of step to get there I was dragged there. LOL
 

556USER

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Think about it do you really want to live in a world where every liberal who spends most of their waking hours dreaming of turning the country into a socialist "Utopia" now owns a firearm. Let it sink in. At present they just yell their virtue signalling crap at you when they think you aren't green enough, woke enough, politically correct enough or whatever. A lot of them would be happy to TELL you while holding a firearm.
 

42!

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You act as if current gun owners and licensees somehow conspired to create the present situation....
Not at all, the majority created the situation, and in doing so oppressed the minority.
and appear to be placing some type of ownus on them/us to change the situation at hand as if we owe it to ourselves to sacrifice out time effort and expense to change the minds of people who won't even save themselves.
Yes, it's on us/you to change the situation re gun laws. They already got what they want, they don't need to DO anything. And they did it one little piece at a time, not all at once. There is a lesson there.
You seem to be saying it's on the antis to change it to make it more to your liking. Why would anyone do that? That just sounds insane.
My solution? Ignore them for the dumb fvcks that they are and let THEM resolve their own issues.
But the problem isn't theirs, they are good with taking your rights away. They have nothing to resolve. And they have the numbers to do what they want. You ignoring them is exactly what the antis want you to do.
I never (and I'd venture a good guess nobody else has) had an anti sympathizing with me in my battles.....I fought them....and WON.....everytime.
Really, won every time. Since we are talking about MA, please tell us all about those wins over the last 20 years. As for getting them to sympathize, that's the whole point of this. There is an opportunity to relate something that is having a real-world affect on them so that they may, just may, consider it when the next round of Bills hits the Legislature. Not perfect, no. But better.
 

oldguy68

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The libtards built their own Titanic in all this.
Who am I to tell them there is an iceberg ahead?
Let them lay where they put their own preparations.

I have a plan and I'm taking care of those that I care about.
The rest will have to figure it out on their own.

They took away OUR rights and gave them to the criminals.
Let them reap what they sow!

They can use the tools that they told us are so effective.
Live in a gun free zone, call 911, use mace, blow your rape whistle, shelter in place and finally pee yourself!
All ineffective against any real threats...
Reality can be painful or even deadly!

What point is there to owning a firearm for protection if you are not willing to pull the trigger to protect yourself and your family?
 
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You need an LTC to buy an 870?

Did you not have an FID before that or are those gone now?
I had an FID in the past but it has been expired for a while, so no way to buy a shotgun until my LTC came in
 

Uzi2

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Not at all, the majority created the situation, and in doing so oppressed the minority.

Yes, it's on us/you to change the situation re gun laws. They already got what they want, they don't need to DO anything. And they did it one little piece at a time, not all at once. There is a lesson there.
You seem to be saying it's on the antis to change it to make it more to your liking. Why would anyone do that? That just sounds insane.

But the problem isn't theirs, they are good with taking your rights away. They have nothing to resolve. And they have the numbers to do what they want. You ignoring them is exactly what the antis want you to do.

Really, won every time. Since we are talking about MA, please tell us all about those wins over the last 20 years. As for getting them to sympathize, that's the whole point of this. There is an opportunity to relate something that is having a real-world affect on them so that they may, just may, consider it when the next round of Bills hits the Legislature. Not perfect, no. But better.
The problem of not being able to get a gun is theirs ( the antis) and they are going to have to be the ones to resolve it...... that is what this whole thread is about.

I told you I don't care a whit if they get a gun or not, I just want them to realize that they created the situation from which they now suffer.....so, they are now responsible for changing it......in what ever way that might present itself. If that means they now stand with others and vote against the usual tyrant democrats.....thats a good start......but I'm not taking them shooting, not loaning them a gun, not giving them a gun or defending them or their property if push comes to shove.



Yes, I've won my battles but that is not the point.....the point was there was no anti gunners supporting me, it was head to head all the way and I prevailed.
 

timbo

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That was big of you, boss, not to rub his face in it. No sarcasm. I would have given him a parting shot. Remember "when seconds count, the system that would deny you self protection is only minutes months away".
FIFY ;)
 

oldguy68

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Let them march at the state house in Boston like we have done and demand their rights!
Let them go see their representatives and have it fall on deaf ears as we have!
I will not waste one breath helping an Anti for all the damage that they have done to our rights!
They have used everything that they could to snuff out our rights.
Make us out to be less human than the real criminals.

Eat sh_t and die!
Let the bodies hit the floor, let the bodies hit the floor..LOL
 
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42!

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No one is saying help them. Certainly not give them a gun. And how can you not get that this is a long term strategy, not a pandemic fix.
I'm saying convert them because we need the numbers.
It's no wonder the antis got us where we are. They play the long game and too many are caught up with the "I want mine, here and now and nothing but everything will do"
It's going to get worse because they will keep taking small bites until the elephant is gone. Meanwhile the pro side will try to eat the whole elephant at once and choke on it.

You do what you want. But I'll explain what the situation is, how it got that way, and what needs to be done to fix it, assuming they get through the crisis. I'll wish them good luck. And when all this is over and the anti Bills start to flow, remind them of what happened. Will this work, maybe not, but telling them to F off definitely isn't going to help.
 

Dadstoys

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Let them march at the state house in Boston like we have done and demand their rights!
Let them go see their representatives and have it fall on deaf ears as we have!
I will not waste one breath helping an Anti for all the damage that they have done to our rights!
They have used everything that they could to snuff out our rights.
Make us out to be less human than the real criminals.

Eat sh_t and die!
Let the bodies hit the floor, let the bodies hit the floor..LOL
QFT
Let them call the politicians they so gladly supported and demand a change.
Find out what it feels like to hear "Click".
 

Uzi2

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No one is saying help them. Certainly not give them a gun. And how can you not get that this is a long term strategy, not a pandemic fix.
I'm saying convert them because we need the numbers.
It's no wonder the antis got us where we are. They play the long game and too many are caught up with the "I want mine, here and now and nothing but everything will do"
It's going to get worse because they will keep taking small bites until the elephant is gone. Meanwhile the pro side will try to eat the whole elephant at once and choke on it.

You do what you want. But I'll explain what the situation is, how it got that way, and what needs to be done to fix it, assuming they get through the crisis. I'll wish them good luck. And when all this is over and the anti Bills start to flow, remind them of what happened. Will this work, maybe not, but telling them to F off definitely isn't going to help.
I'm not telling them to fvck off, I clearly stated that my answer was to ignore them and let them figure it out for themselves. If they can't figure it out when it has clearly dope slapped them right in the face then there is little hope for them going forward.

They got themselves into their own mess, let them get themselves out of it. They've been given the other side of the story for decades and outright refused to even acknowledge it in any manner. Their stubborness is beyond the pale and only they can rectify that.
 
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I have an extended family member who has repeatedly advocated/claimed that 2A only protects muskets/muzzle loaders....very vocal about it too.....you can imagine where this person falls on other issues.....

Nonetheless it was hilarious to hear from them and for them to start asking me how to get a gun......

I pointed them to the requirements in their state and the lengthy/laborious/expensive process they need to follow......

They were more or less irate......I suggested they contact their governor, reps and sens......

Couldnt resist the parting shot......mentioned that their previous position on firearms was basically muskets are all thats permitted........there was silence........I mentioned that they might want to look into a musket.....depending on their states laws they might be able to get one mail order.......but mentioned their state may have draconian restrictions on BP itself.....as well as treating BP pistols as a normal/modern pistol

Hilarity ensued.....I'm sure that once the current stupidity passes they will return to shoving their head into the sand
 

six string

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Not trying to get off topic here, but using wadcutters in a lever action is the worst possible choice, guaranteed to cause feeding problems, especially in model 92's. They tend to be very finicky about cartridge OAL, and many will quickly demonstrate a preference for either standard length .38's or .357's, few will cycle equally well with both.
Thanks for the assist. I looked that up and quickly saw why. Would the same cycling/safety issues apply to semi-wadcutters in a lever action too? For the record these are .38 +P semi-wadcutter hollow points 158 grain.
 

Zappa

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Thanks for the assist. I looked that up and quickly saw why. Would the same cycling/safety issues apply to semi-wadcutters in a lever action too? For the record these are .38 +P semi-wadcutter hollow points 158 grain.
That depends on the specific rifle an the exact profile of the bullet.
The longer and rounder the bullet profile, the better it'll feed in most lever actions.



I don't expect these to feed very well due to the "step" on the side of the bullet, this is where it's likely to hang up on the edge of the chamber as the bolt pushes it forward.
 
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1. Even in Massachusetts more voters are Independent than Democrat or Republican - combined. True nationally as well.
2. Many of the people here are not in GOAL, GONH, NRA, etc .
3. In the real world, people change their minds.

Y’all are one tiny step from playing the victim card.
An independent in Ma is just a DemoCRAP who wants to pretend to look reasonable. That’s why 99 times out of 100 they vote to take our gun rights away and vote DemoCRAP.
 
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