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Sounds like a good ideaCall Attorney Neil Tassel
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Sounds like a good ideaCall Attorney Neil Tassel
This is normal and is part of the application process. Your police chief is not trying to mess with you.In a bit of a unique situation. I was born outside of the United States, but immigrated when I was very young. My parents obtained citizenship via naturalization and since I was under 18 I became a citizen as well. My parents never applied for a Certificate of Citizenship (Form N-600) and my only proof of my citizenship is my US Passport. For those curious, you can apply for a passport (DS-11) with proof of derived citizenship (all the documents you'd need for an N-600).
I got a call from my police department saying that my application had been put on hold because I needed to provide a naturalization certificate since I was born outside of the United States. I offered to show a passport, but they stated that it could not be accepted since it "has an expiry date". Additionally, my police department (Billerica) does state on their website that to qualify for an FID: "A naturalized citizen within the above age restrictions (applicant must present proof of naturalization)". I was never naturalized.
I could apply for a Certificate of Citizenship (Form N-600), however, the average processing times for these applications are 1+ year. I do not want to wait a year just so I can exercise my constitutional right to bear arms. I'm quite confused because an FID is a shall-issue license and besides naturalization, all other qualifications for obtaining the license are met. What action can I take?
i know a lot of educated people who need to be reminded that it is from time to time....because they don't believe Puerto Rico is part of the US.
he probably thinks that a communist youth group. you're starting a splinter group are ya?...where I mentioned the past work Comm2A has done with other towns.
Get a lawyer soon. You should have recorded that conversation. And record all conversations with PD. That is completely legal even in "all party consent" states. It is always legal to record any public employee doing their public work.Small update. I got a call from the police department again. The officer responsible for firearms licensing said that he wants to see "as much documentation as possible" about me. I mentioned that the most proof of citizenship I have is a US Passport and he said he wants to see that on top of other identifying documents I could provide.
Since he was quite vague about what identification he was actually requesting, I asked what other identifying documents I could provide. He mentioned that I could bring a copy of my birth certificate. He kept emphasizing that he wanted documents to know who I am / get to know me. I asked if a US Passport would be enough to satisfy his identification requirements and he angrily responded "You're trying to get an answer over the phone, you're not going to get that" and asked me to bring in all of my identifying documents.
Strangely his tone was extremely hostile and it sounded like he was irritated to work with me. I had left a previous phone message where I mentioned the past work Comm2A has done with other towns. I wonder if that's what set him off.
I have been in contact with Comm2A and they've made it clear that they'd be happy to assist me. I'm not sure if I want to reach out to a private lawyer just yet because I'd like to avoid legal fees as much as possible.Get a lawyer soon. You should have recorded that conversation. And record all conversations with PD. That is completely legal even in "all party consent" states. It is always legal to record any public employee doing their public work.
This guy sounds like he has already decided to deny and just wants the thinnest veneer of authority to do so.
I have been in contact with Comm2A and they've made it clear that they'd be happy to assist me. I'm not sure if I want to reach out to a private lawyer just yet because I'd like to avoid legal fees as much as possible.
Also, correct me if I'm wrong but there are very little reasons you can actually get denied for an FID? Obviously excluding basic requirements such as having a clean background check. From my understanding, FIDs are pretty much always "shall issue".
I have been in contact with Comm2A and they've made it clear that they'd be happy to assist me. I'm not sure if I want to reach out to a private lawyer just yet because I'd like to avoid legal fees as much as possible.
Also, correct me if I'm wrong but there are very little reasons you can actually get denied for an FID? Obviously excluding basic requirements such as having a clean background check. From my understanding, FIDs are pretty much always "shall issue".
You can bet they won't forget when you apply for an unrestricted carry permit.I have been in contact with Comm2A and they've made it clear that they'd be happy to assist me. I'm not sure if I want to reach out to a private lawyer just yet because I'd like to avoid legal fees as much as possible.
Also, correct me if I'm wrong but there are very little reasons you can actually get denied for an FID? Obviously excluding basic requirements such as having a clean background check. From my understanding, FIDs are pretty much always "shall issue".
If they are going to give you all this crap over an FID you might as well get an LTC and be done with it.
I am under 21.Unless there's some really compelling reason to get an FID, don't. Get an LTC. There's no good reason for an FID unless you're under 21 and an LTC isn't an option.
I am under 21.
Strangely his tone was extremely hostile
It is always legal to record any public employee doing their public work.
Geesh, lots of useless info here. Just follow the instructions! Massachusetts LTC application, page 2, question ONE:
"If naturalized, give date, place and naturalization number"
That's when you skip all the regular world-class Mass gun lawyersThat’s great. But now what do you do when you’ve done that but the cop still won’t process the application unless you provide the certificate?
I'm having a hard time getting my head around the expiration derp.22 U.S. Code § 2705 - Documentation of citizenship
The following documents shall have the same force and effect as proof of United States citizenship as certificates of naturalization or of citizenship issued by the Attorney General or by a court having naturalization jurisdiction:
(1) A passport, during its period of validity (if such period is the maximum period authorized by law), issued by the Secretary of State to a citizen of the United States.
(2) The report, designated as a “Report of Birth Abroad of a Citizen of the United States”, issued by a consular officer to document a citizen born abroad. For purposes of this paragraph, the term “consular officer” includes any United States citizen employee of the Department of State who is designated by the Secretary of State to adjudicate nationality abroad pursuant to such regulations as the Secretary may prescribe.
I am under 21.
They're not trying to 'mess' with him, they're ignorant. For some reason lots of PDs won't (or didn't want to) accept passports as positive ID and proof of citizenship. Old habits are hard to break. And the idea of 'derived' citizenship is hard for them to get their heads around. So often these guys are drones executing a checklist and not bothering to think. The best example was Chicopee who demanded parental consent from BOTH parents for an under 18 FID card even if one parent was a non-custodial felon.This is normal and is part of the application process. Your police chief is not trying to mess with you.
When your parents got their citizenship, they received a naturalization certificate. Since you were minor, the certificate applies to you as well. You need to find that naturalization paper or request a duplicate from NIS. The replacement cost is about $400-$500 so your parents better look hard through their papers.
EDIT: You also want to double-check if the police really need a copy of the certificate. They just need the naturalization certificate number. They use it as part of your background check. A copy of the certificate should not be required.
You have a clear understanding of how the process should work under the law, but it doesn't actually work that way. Everyone one of the Commonwealth's 351 licensing authorities have their own rules. And while they can't deny an FID card to the OP, they just won't accept his application until he provides whatever they want even if it's not possible for him to produce it. We call it the 'pocket' denial. This is why the state can say that very few firearm license applications are denied. The PDs just refuse to process them if they don't like the applicant.Geesh, lots of useless info here. Just follow the instructions! Massachusetts LTC application, page 2, question ONE:
"If naturalized, give date, place and naturalization number"
The naturalization number is ON THE NATURALIZATION CERTIFICATE! If you were underage, you were naturalized with your parents. When your parents took the United States Citizen's oath, They received this certificate as proof. Take a copy of the certificate and write the number down on the application!
You don't need a lawyer or Comm2A just to fill out an application. Moreover, don't listen to "knowledgable people" about getting an FID instead: it's the same application and it needs to be filled out completely!
I actually DO know how it works! I've helped my immigrant wife who was naturalized along with her parents because she was a minor at the time. I've also helped about 4-5 families who are also naturalized citizens. The advantage of having a wife who's an immigrant is meeting families who escaped Socialist and Communist regimes to come to this country(legally!). I helped them apply in the towns of Needham, Newton, Barnstable, Ashland, and Weston: All got their LTC's. All provided their naturalization #'s, all received their LTC's. Newton took the longest and came with restrictions but otherwise, all were just fine.You have a clear understanding of how the process should work under the law, but it doesn't actually work that way.
Considering that the paperwork you should have submitted from the get-go was in fact submitted on July 7th, that's only 37 days. That's pretty darn fast!my parent's Certificate of Naturalization
Considering that the paperwork you should have submitted from the get-go was in fact submitted on July 7th, that's only 37 days. That's pretty darn fast!
If applying as a US citizen it is a requirement.Wow, quite the struggle!
FYI, proof of US citizenship cannot be a requirement.
you mean like a passport?If applying as a US citizen it is a requirement.
If applying as a non US citizen the applicant must show proof of his legal status in the US (like a green card for permanent residents).
So with the OP being a US citizen, he wouldn’t have any non US citizen documents hence the need for proof of US citizenship.
He submitted his passport - nothing further needed.Considering that the paperwork you should have submitted from the get-go was in fact submitted on July 7th, that's only 37 days. That's pretty darn fast!