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Path to challenge DUI making you prohibited person

CrackPot

CrackPot

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MA makes DUI carry up to 2.5yrs in jail so it is a permanent disqualifier from possession of firearms. Now we have a ruling in PA against this.

www.firearmspolicy.org

Federal Judge Rules For Plaintiff in FPC-Supported Lawsuit that Challenged Lifetime Gun Ban for Non-Violent Misdemeanor Conviction

Today, Firearms Policy Coalition (FPC) announced that Judge John Milton Younge of the Eastern District of Pennsylvania has granted summary judgment for the plaintiff in Williams v. Garland, which challenged the federal Gun Control Act’s lifetime ban on the exercise of Second Amendment rights due...
www.firearmspolicy.org www.firearmspolicy.org

Next is to challenge this in the 1st circuit. Chip away at MA anti-gun outcomes…
 
Or this could be an outcome of the current Supreme Court case for accused domestic abusers having their 2A rights taken away. An opinion distinguishing violent v. Nonviolent felonies. Like Coney Barrett has been saying/written in the past.

Maybe not likely but still
 
Reptile said:
This is a big deal.

Lots of Mass folks lost their LTC back in 1998 if I recall due to DUI.
Click to expand...

I believe what actually happened was that anyone who got a DUI from 98 forward became a PP where previously that would not have happened. However certain Chiefs used a DUI as a reason to deny an LTC based on suitability.
 
I read this thread title as CHALLENGING your DUI somehow makes you a PP. LOL. I was all sorts of upside down on the FPC article.

Next is Violent crimes. I mean, if you are out of jail and can vote and junk. . . . . why is there one right you CAN'T exercise???? Seems like BS to me. (That, and REAL criminals are gonna just get guns anyhow. So. . . . )
 
Dennis in MA said:
I read this thread title as CHALLENGING your DUI somehow makes you a PP. LOL. I was all sorts of upside down on the FPC article.

Next is Violent crimes. I mean, if you are out of jail and can vote and junk. . . . . why is there one right you CAN'T exercise???? Seems like BS to me. (That, and REAL criminals are gonna just get guns anyhow. So. . . . )
Click to expand...

Right - just because someone murdered someone in the past, does this mean that they lose the right to defend themselves?
 
67ray said:
Or this could be an outcome of the current Supreme Court case for accused domestic abusers having their 2A rights taken away. An opinion distinguishing violent v. Nonviolent felonies. Like Coney Barrett has been saying/written in the past.

Maybe not likely but still
Click to expand...
Domestic violence cases can be some real bull. Say for example you had a girlfriend of 6 weeks who has stayed at your home overnight on a number of occasions and you two have frequent sex. She sees a glimpse of a text message to your sister that she didn't know you had and irrationally reacts. She is getting in your face and you are just done with it. You ask her to leave, she refuses. Her arms are flailing about while going bonkers talking all kinds of trash. You deflect one of the arms and go to escort her out the door. She slaps your hand away. You then turn her around and walk her out the door. A neighbor hears the commotion and calls the police. They learn that you were the first to make physical contact and determine that you were the aggressor. You are charged with Domestic A&B.

Edit: Any similarity to actual people and events is purely coincidental.
 
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eboos said:
Domestic violence cases can be some real bull. Say for example you had a girlfriend of 6 weeks who has stayed at your home overnight on a number of occasions and you two have frequent sex. She sees a glimpse of a text message to your sister that she didn't know you had and irrationally reacts. She is getting in your face and you are just done with it. You ask her to leave, she refuses. Her arms are flailing about while going bonkers talking all kinds of trash. You deflect one of the arms and go to escort her out the door. She slaps your hand away. You then turn her around and walk her out the door. A neighbor hears the commotion and calls the police. They learn that you were the first to make physical contact and determine that you were the aggressor. You are charged with Domestic A&B.
Click to expand...
That’s a really specific example…
 
eboos said:
Domestic violence cases can be some real bull. Say for example you had a girlfriend of 6 weeks who has stayed at your home overnight on a number of occasions and you two have frequent sex. She sees a glimpse of a text message to your sister that she didn't know you had and irrationally reacts. She is getting in your face and you are just done with it. You ask her to leave, she refuses. Her arms are flailing about while going bonkers talking all kinds of trash. You deflect one of the arms and go to escort her out the door. She slaps your hand away. You then turn her around and walk her out the door. A neighbor hears the commotion and calls the police. They learn that you were the first to make physical contact and determine that you were the aggressor. You are charged with Domestic A&B.
Click to expand...
I get what your saying but I highly recommend in this type of situation not "Escorting" a woman out the door, nothing good comes from that at all.
 
SHOCKNAWE said:
I get what your saying but I highly recommend in this type of situation not "Escorting" a woman out the door, nothing good comes from that at all.
Click to expand...
While I would agree, it would seem like a natural response and certainly not an "act of violence" yet it would be sufficient for a guilty finding.
 
tuna said:
Right - just because someone murdered someone in the past, does this mean that they lose the right to defend themselves?
Click to expand...
Murderers and attempted murdererers in most states get life. I have a problem wit shrinks getting criminals out of jail. Like the low life who tried to murder Ronald Reagn

https://www.npr.org/2022/06/15/1105...nate-president-reagan-is-granted-full-release

and of course in criminal friendly New York, every 3 years Mark David Chapman who murdered John Lennon is up for parole and Yoko Ono who is now 90 has to go and oppose that travesty.
https://www.npr.org/2022/09/13/1122633330/john-lennon-killer-mark-david-chapman-1980-denied-parole
 
eboos said:
While I would agree, it would seem like a natural response and certainly not an "act of violence" yet it would be sufficient for a guilty finding.
Click to expand...
Ofcourse but all men should re train their thought process of not doing this, if I was in this situation I would immediately walk out the door and call the police, I've told a few friends the exact same thing who have been in similar situations, no friggen way I'm explaining a shit sandwich like this to some idiot 20 year old Town cop and hoping he understands the situation, fuuuuuuuuuuk that.
 
eboos said:
Domestic violence cases can be some real bull. Say for example you had a girlfriend of 6 weeks who has stayed at your home overnight on a number of occasions and you two have frequent sex. She sees a glimpse of a text message to your sister that she didn't know you had and irrationally reacts. She is getting in your face and you are just done with it. You ask her to leave, she refuses. Her arms are flailing about while going bonkers talking all kinds of trash. You deflect one of the arms and go to escort her out the door. She slaps your hand away. You then turn her around and walk her out the door. A neighbor hears the commotion and calls the police. They learn that you were the first to make physical contact and determine that you were the aggressor. You are charged with Domestic A&B.
Click to expand...
This very thing happened to a person I know. Charges were dropped but man did it suck for him.
 
Reptile said:
This is a big deal.

Lots of Mass folks lost their LTC back in 1998 if I recall due to DUI.
Click to expand...
MA DUI became a misdafelony in 1994. Any convictions (not CWOFs) after that date result in lifetime federal PP status. The MA 1998 changes did not retroactively make pre-1994 DUI convictions disqualifiers.

What did happen (I think 1997) is that the Lautenberg amendment making a domestic violence conviction, even if a misdemeanor not a misdafelony, a ticket into the lifetime PP club. This punishment was enacted ex post facto, and many people (including cops) with an old dv conviction found themselves in PP status. I think cops in that situation were allowed to carry on duty only and not have personal possession of firearms (not certain about that detail).
 
tuna said:
Right - just because someone murdered someone in the past, does this mean that they lose the right to defend themselves?
Click to expand...

Have they paid their debt to society or not?

Question - convicted, released murderer - can they be called for jury duty???? LOL. Serious question that makes me giggle.
 
granitestater said:
Murderers and attempted murdererers in most states get life. I have a problem wit shrinks getting criminals out of jail. Like the low life who tried to murder Ronald Reagn

https://www.npr.org/2022/06/15/1105...nate-president-reagan-is-granted-full-release

and of course in criminal friendly New York, every 3 years Mark David Chapman who murdered John Lennon is up for parole and Yoko Ono who is now 90 has to go and oppose that travesty.
https://www.npr.org/2022/09/13/1122633330/john-lennon-killer-mark-david-chapman-1980-denied-parole
Click to expand...

I'd be up for him being release as long as he had to listen to her "singing" for 5 min first.
 
Dennis in MA said:
I read this thread title as CHALLENGING your DUI somehow makes you a PP. LOL. I was all sorts of upside down on the FPC article.
Click to expand...
In practice it can be.

Suppose you are charged with first offense DUI and feel you are innocent. Your attorney explains the two options:
  1. Take the CWOF, get hammered on insurance for 6 years and do not have a conviction on your record. Even so, a DUI CWOF is counted as a predicate offense for a future DUI, and as a conviction for commercial driving license purposes.

  2. Refresh the retainer by a few thousand, take it to trial and become a a federally PP for life if you lose. And no, the state restoration of gun rights will not be recognized by the feds.
So yes, one can in practice become a PP for challenging a DUI.
 
Rob Boudrie said:
MA DUI became a misdafelony in 1994. Any convictions (not CWOFs) after that date result in lifetime federal PP status. The MA 1998 changes did not retroactively make pre-1994 DUI convictions disqualifiers.

What did happen (I think 1997) is that the Lautenberg amendment making a domestic violence conviction, even if a misdemeanor not a misdafelony, a ticket into the lifetime PP club. This punishment was enacted ex post facto, and many people (including cops) with an old dv conviction found themselves in PP status. I think cops in that situation were allowed to carry on duty only and not have personal possession of firearms (not certain about that detail).
Click to expand...
Police were not exempted by Lautenberg. Neither were military. My son's friend saw the notice in the company arms room at Camp Pendleton while he was stationed there.
 
Chevy 2 65 said:
This very thing happened to a person I know. Charges were dropped but man did it suck for him.
Click to expand...
I know someone who even showed police home security footage of her decking him twice and he bear-hugged her into submission. Responding offers literally could not have given a shit. The home footage captured them yell-spitting at him "YOU _______ TOUCHED HER, YOU'RE GOING TO JAIL, WE'RE NOT HERE TO NEGOTIATE". The jury got to hear an edited 911 call "Yeah, I have her pinned until you get here" and delibareated for 3 hours before letting him go. This was tricky, because it was documented he threw her into a wall about 5 years prior in a drunken fight. In Maine this is referred to as "fisherman's foreplay".
 
Last edited:
eboos said:
Domestic violence cases can be some real bull. Say for example you had a girlfriend of 6 weeks who has stayed at your home overnight on a number of occasions and you two have frequent sex. She sees a glimpse of a text message to your sister that she didn't know you had and irrationally reacts. She is getting in your face and you are just done with it. You ask her to leave, she refuses. Her arms are flailing about while going bonkers talking all kinds of trash. You deflect one of the arms and go to escort her out the door. She slaps your hand away. You then turn her around and walk her out the door. A neighbor hears the commotion and calls the police. They learn that you were the first to make physical contact and determine that you were the aggressor. You are charged with Domestic A&B.

Edit: Any similarity to actual people and events is purely coincidental.
Click to expand...

This happened to someone I know. And another story... when the GF/Wife was leaving they grabbed something that belonged to a friend and then got in their car. My friend stood in the car door and tried to get it back out of her hand, but she kept slapping his hand away. So he grabbed her wrist and took it back. She claimed AB.
 
LuvDog said:
This happened to someone I know. And another story... when the GF/Wife was leaving they grabbed something that belonged to a friend and then got in their car. My friend stood in the car door and tried to get it back out of her hand, but she kept slapping his hand away. So he grabbed her wrist and took it back. She claimed AB.
Click to expand...
A friend of mine who was married to an unstable amazon of a gal got his head split open with a frying pan.
He never touched her.
Cops show up ( He called), he's bleeding all over the floor like a stuck pig and she doesn't have a mark on her.
Guess who went out in cuffs?
 
All this outrage over a conviction making you PP when with suitability you are affectively PP in MA without even a trial, let alone a conviction, and no way to overturn it in court. Even an assault conviction only prevents an LTC for 5 years. I do agree with the DUI problem on a first offence, but at least you get a trial and can go back and have it overturned.
 
42! said:
All this outrage over a conviction making you PP when with suitability you are affectively PP in MA without even a trial, let alone a conviction, and no way to overturn it in court. Even an assault conviction only prevents an LTC for 5 years. I do agree with the DUI problem on a first offence, but at least you get a trial and can go back and have it overturned.
Click to expand...
1. Having it overturned sounds simply, but is pricey and with no assured success

2. The DUI prohibition is Federal, Lifetime, and the feds do not recognize a state level restoration - only overturning the conviction or a MA pardon w/restoration of firearms rights. Yes, MA has pardons with "all but firearms right" restored. There is a huge difference between some towns considering you unsuitable and being federally prohibited for life.
 

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