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Para Ordnance Quality?
- Thread starter Rbfrat
- Start date
I have one of the new Para LDA guns and I can't say that I am impressed. I do like the LDA trigger and how accurate the gun is. Unfortunately, my gun from the get go was problematic. Initially the thumb safety did not work correctly and it would fall out every time I engaged it. The gun was sent back to PO and they ended up replacing the entire frame. Then right after I got the gun back the extractor broke after only a couple of rounds. For that, PO just sent me a replacement part.
As far as FTF goes, my gun will not feed Winchester White Box hollow point rounds (I have not tried any others). They get jammed going up the feed ramp. I have yet to address this issue with PO. I have been procrastinating because I really hate dealing with the company due to their less than stellar customer service.
Needless to say this was my first and will be the only PO gun I will ever own.
As far as FTF goes, my gun will not feed Winchester White Box hollow point rounds (I have not tried any others). They get jammed going up the feed ramp. I have yet to address this issue with PO. I have been procrastinating because I really hate dealing with the company due to their less than stellar customer service.
Needless to say this was my first and will be the only PO gun I will ever own.
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I don't like most PO products, and I loathe their double stack pistols.
I'd only ever buy one if it had already been worked over by a gunsmith. Even then the price would have to be really good.
Their single stack guns, on the whole, aren't nearly as bad.
Whatever you do... stay the hell away from the Warthog. I have not met a single Warthog owner that didn't have something negative to say about that thing.
I already know how this thread is gonna go. You are going to get probably a dozen or more posts saying "Run away!!! run!" or "Do not want!" and then a handful of posts in favor. There, I did it.![[laugh]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/012.gif "Laugh [laugh]")
The other thing is their customer service sucks. If you buy one, don't bother with the factory, just get a 1911 smith to fix it... It'll be cheaper in the long run.
-Mike
I'd only ever buy one if it had already been worked over by a gunsmith. Even then the price would have to be really good.
Their single stack guns, on the whole, aren't nearly as bad.
Whatever you do... stay the hell away from the Warthog. I have not met a single Warthog owner that didn't have something negative to say about that thing.
I already know how this thread is gonna go. You are going to get probably a dozen or more posts saying "Run away!!! run!" or "Do not want!" and then a handful of posts in favor. There, I did it.
The other thing is their customer service sucks. If you buy one, don't bother with the factory, just get a 1911 smith to fix it... It'll be cheaper in the long run.
-Mike
- Joined
- Mar 28, 2009
- Messages
- 4,910
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- 2,916
I bought an s16-40 limited from the classifieds here on NES a few months ago. It was a good deal to start with. Then I had a bunch of work done to it including the trigger. For less than $700 bucks I have what I think is a decent gun that I enjoy shooting. I'm sure there are better options out there and I have my eye on some of those S&W models.
Dirtypacman
NES Door Greeter
My P14-40 that I no longer have due to a financial decision at the time was one of my favorite shooters. Accurate as hell and never had any of the problems I have read about from other Para's. It ate up everything I gave it.
45collector
NES Member
I've owned a C6 LDA and a P12 "Limited". They both sucked a$$. I never should have traded my GLOCK 19 for the LDA, and the even dumber mistake was trading the LDA towards the P12. I would agree with Mike though that with some expert 'smithing, some of the PO models could prove to be reliable shooters. But I won't buy anything made by them again.
You could crazy glue a box of Legos, some bent rods, and a metal cigar tube together in the rough shape of a firearm. Then put a bullet in the tube, hit the primer with a hammer and still have a better working firearm than what Para could produce.
And since you made it, the Customer Service will be better as well!
Avoid.
Avoid.
AVOID.
And since you made it, the Customer Service will be better as well!
Avoid.
Avoid.
AVOID.
45collector
NES Member
[insert some silly comment about lego gun not being MA-compliant]
I have 7 1911s of one flavor or another (Colt, Springfield, Kimber Series I, Wilson, etc.). My P14 is the black sheep of the litter. It has had numerous failures to feed, typically near the end of the magazine. All of the magazines were bought new from PO. I've tried replacing the springs and followers, but that didn't solve the problem.
After several thousand rounds through it, the hammer started following the slide, resulting in a trip to a gunsmith to replace the hammer and sear. He said that he'd never seen a hammer and sear so soft.
The slide stop notch has now deformed significantly.
I strongly recommend against ParaOrdnance.
After several thousand rounds through it, the hammer started following the slide, resulting in a trip to a gunsmith to replace the hammer and sear. He said that he'd never seen a hammer and sear so soft.
The slide stop notch has now deformed significantly.
I strongly recommend against ParaOrdnance.
Some serious dislike of PO here.
I had three; two new (P-14 Ltd.), one new (P-16 Ltd.). Not many problems with any of them.
The slide of one P-14 was soft enough so the slide stop lever peened the notch back enough to slit the end of my thumb during a match. Fortunately, the gun was stainless steel.
A clumsy fellow shooter "helped" me reassemble that gun, putting a classic "idiot's arc" on the slide. When I sent the slide back to have the peening issue addressed, PO also polished the scratch out, no charge.
I also had a troublesome mag. It was returned to PO, which either repaired or replaced it. I don't care which; what I got back worked.
I recall no problems with the used P-16, although it was also tweaked with SVI internals. Now I shoot SVI in Limited and Limited-10, so have not used PO in several years.
I don't recall any major FTE/FTF issues not attributable to cases occasionally shaving lead bullets, making the cartridge a tad oversize and off-center. I now use better quality, poly-coated bullets and don't have that problem.
I had three; two new (P-14 Ltd.), one new (P-16 Ltd.). Not many problems with any of them.
The slide of one P-14 was soft enough so the slide stop lever peened the notch back enough to slit the end of my thumb during a match. Fortunately, the gun was stainless steel.
A clumsy fellow shooter "helped" me reassemble that gun, putting a classic "idiot's arc" on the slide. When I sent the slide back to have the peening issue addressed, PO also polished the scratch out, no charge.
I also had a troublesome mag. It was returned to PO, which either repaired or replaced it. I don't care which; what I got back worked.
I recall no problems with the used P-16, although it was also tweaked with SVI internals. Now I shoot SVI in Limited and Limited-10, so have not used PO in several years.
I don't recall any major FTE/FTF issues not attributable to cases occasionally shaving lead bullets, making the cartridge a tad oversize and off-center. I now use better quality, poly-coated bullets and don't have that problem.
Knob Creek
NES Member
I have a P-18 had a problem which was traced to one of the factory mags. Which was replaced by the dealer. I ran about 500 rounds thru it and then had a smith improve the trigger. No complaints since.
KMM696
NES Member
I have 2 - a P14 and P14 LDA.
The P14 rear sight should have really had loctite applied at the factory. Then, I could have been shooting instead of looking for little bitty sight parts on the ground. It also refuses to shoot 200gr LSWCs without at least one failure to feed per mag. One of the plastic mag followers was deformed, and would hang up inside the mag body. After it was replaced, it's worked fine.
Other than that, it's accurate and shoots well for me. It hasn't seen heavy use, though. Perhaps 1500 rounds.
The LDA I picked up recently, so it has (maybe) 250 through it. It has one of their painted finishes on it. There was a high spot in the dustcover area of the receiver that put a nice line in the finish on the slide. I considered returning it to PO, but after hearing from my brother that they had taken 3 months to repair his identical LDA that had finish flaking off wherever the oil drops had been before painting, I decided I could live with it.
It's shoots all right so far, haven't tried 200gr loads in it yet. I'm not sure I like the LDA over the standard trigger, but I need to work with it more.
Easy to find preban mags for them, though. Sadly, not a lot of other options for doublestack 1911s in MA.
The P14 rear sight should have really had loctite applied at the factory. Then, I could have been shooting instead of looking for little bitty sight parts on the ground. It also refuses to shoot 200gr LSWCs without at least one failure to feed per mag. One of the plastic mag followers was deformed, and would hang up inside the mag body. After it was replaced, it's worked fine.
Other than that, it's accurate and shoots well for me. It hasn't seen heavy use, though. Perhaps 1500 rounds.
The LDA I picked up recently, so it has (maybe) 250 through it. It has one of their painted finishes on it. There was a high spot in the dustcover area of the receiver that put a nice line in the finish on the slide. I considered returning it to PO, but after hearing from my brother that they had taken 3 months to repair his identical LDA that had finish flaking off wherever the oil drops had been before painting, I decided I could live with it.
It's shoots all right so far, haven't tried 200gr loads in it yet. I'm not sure I like the LDA over the standard trigger, but I need to work with it more.
Easy to find preban mags for them, though. Sadly, not a lot of other options for doublestack 1911s in MA.
The Goose
NES Member
Every time the Para question comes up I recall the nightmare that I went through with them. So below is some stuff I posted at the time on the 1911 Forum. I will never let this one go!
"So I guess at this point I am pretty upset. Not really angry, but disappointed. I could call Para again and speak to George, but I figure I might as well just vent and let it go. Here is the chronology of events and why I am so upset.
Jan. 26: Purchased new Para SSP PX745E
Jan. 27: Shot it and slide stop broke. I posted frustration.
Jan. 29: I emailed Para customer support and wrote (and emailed) a letter to Ted Szabo expressing that this was my 3rd. Para that was defective. I then called and spoke to customer service and they said they would send out a new slide stop. I asked for rush delivery and was told that the policy is strictly regular delivery.
Feb. 5: New slide stop arrives. No response to my emails or letter yet. I attempt to install new slide stop and discover that it is bent. I email Para.
Feb. 6: Feb. 7: At 11:42 AM I post on 1911 Forum with photos. At 4:46 PM George Wedge replies and promises to take care of it. (“Well, there certainly is no debate required as to whether or not this is acceptable on any level. Goose, I will be in contact with you shortly, and promise to have this resolved post haste. Our sincere apologies for your having to deal with this.”)
Feb. 7: Derrick from Para calls and tells me he will send me another new slide stop, regular delivery. About an hour later George Wedge calls and tells me that he is going to simply give me a new gun. We have a very nice talk. He tells me that he wants to examine the problem gun to figure out why the slide stop broke. He also tells me that he will "personally" test fire my new gun to guarantee that it works properly and promises that he will let me know why the original gun was defective. He also cautions me that it will take 2-3 weeks to get my new gun. No problem. I am a happy guy.
Feb. 9: Gun goes back to Para.
Feb 26: I email George just to get an update. No response.
March 9: I call George, but he is out.
March 12: I call and speak to George. He claims to remember me, but when I tell him about the broken slide stop he is incredulous that I have not received a new slide stop in so long a time. I remind him that he promised me a new gun. I tell him that I shipped my gun back to him and he corrects me and points out that I shipped it to their plant in the US not to him in Canada. He tells me that he certainly does not know what the US plant is doing, but that he can call and find out.
March 13: I receive a voice mail from George. He called the US plant and they will ship the gun out that week and I will receive it the next week. His final words are; (direct quote) “They did not forget about it they just have not gotten around to it”.
March 23: So it is Friday, end of day and I am getting ready to leave the office. No gun this week.
So, why am I perturbed? It is almost 2 months from date of purchase and I have no gun. George assured me that he would “personally” test fire my gun. I guess that was just a figure of speech, because the gun is shipping out from (I think) Tennessee and he is in Canada. Supposedly it shipped last week to arrive this week. I have initiated every contact in this whole process. This is my 3rd. defective Para and from my viewpoint I have received no customer service at all. No doubt I will eventually receive my new gun, but at this point I really do not care. I will sell it immediately as I have no desire to own a gun from Para Ordnance. I could include even more detail in this story, but I believe I have written enough. I am one extremely dissatisfied customer and since Para obviously does not care I am venting to you guys, the buying public. I am not really interested in hearing from you guys who have great working Para's or received great customer service. I have experienced neither. I am disgusted."
"So I guess at this point I am pretty upset. Not really angry, but disappointed. I could call Para again and speak to George, but I figure I might as well just vent and let it go. Here is the chronology of events and why I am so upset.
Jan. 26: Purchased new Para SSP PX745E
Jan. 27: Shot it and slide stop broke. I posted frustration.
Jan. 29: I emailed Para customer support and wrote (and emailed) a letter to Ted Szabo expressing that this was my 3rd. Para that was defective. I then called and spoke to customer service and they said they would send out a new slide stop. I asked for rush delivery and was told that the policy is strictly regular delivery.
Feb. 5: New slide stop arrives. No response to my emails or letter yet. I attempt to install new slide stop and discover that it is bent. I email Para.
Feb. 6: Feb. 7: At 11:42 AM I post on 1911 Forum with photos. At 4:46 PM George Wedge replies and promises to take care of it. (“Well, there certainly is no debate required as to whether or not this is acceptable on any level. Goose, I will be in contact with you shortly, and promise to have this resolved post haste. Our sincere apologies for your having to deal with this.”)
Feb. 7: Derrick from Para calls and tells me he will send me another new slide stop, regular delivery. About an hour later George Wedge calls and tells me that he is going to simply give me a new gun. We have a very nice talk. He tells me that he wants to examine the problem gun to figure out why the slide stop broke. He also tells me that he will "personally" test fire my new gun to guarantee that it works properly and promises that he will let me know why the original gun was defective. He also cautions me that it will take 2-3 weeks to get my new gun. No problem. I am a happy guy.
Feb. 9: Gun goes back to Para.
Feb 26: I email George just to get an update. No response.
March 9: I call George, but he is out.
March 12: I call and speak to George. He claims to remember me, but when I tell him about the broken slide stop he is incredulous that I have not received a new slide stop in so long a time. I remind him that he promised me a new gun. I tell him that I shipped my gun back to him and he corrects me and points out that I shipped it to their plant in the US not to him in Canada. He tells me that he certainly does not know what the US plant is doing, but that he can call and find out.
March 13: I receive a voice mail from George. He called the US plant and they will ship the gun out that week and I will receive it the next week. His final words are; (direct quote) “They did not forget about it they just have not gotten around to it”.
March 23: So it is Friday, end of day and I am getting ready to leave the office. No gun this week.
So, why am I perturbed? It is almost 2 months from date of purchase and I have no gun. George assured me that he would “personally” test fire my gun. I guess that was just a figure of speech, because the gun is shipping out from (I think) Tennessee and he is in Canada. Supposedly it shipped last week to arrive this week. I have initiated every contact in this whole process. This is my 3rd. defective Para and from my viewpoint I have received no customer service at all. No doubt I will eventually receive my new gun, but at this point I really do not care. I will sell it immediately as I have no desire to own a gun from Para Ordnance. I could include even more detail in this story, but I believe I have written enough. I am one extremely dissatisfied customer and since Para obviously does not care I am venting to you guys, the buying public. I am not really interested in hearing from you guys who have great working Para's or received great customer service. I have experienced neither. I am disgusted."
PCK9
NES Member
I have an LDA Carry and a Hawg 9. LDA was bought used and have had no feed issues. The Hawg 9 has feed issues. I did email customer service on the Hawg 9 and they got back to me the next day with return instructions if I wanted to send it in for repair. I didn't send it yet, tried cleaning and oiling again and seems to be getting better with every use.
Never owned one, but from what I've read - people that have them that work (probably the silent majority) love them. When they don't work, they REALLY don't work, and you tend to hear a lot about these incidents. There may be a higher number of people who have problems with these than other brands. Their single stacks tend to be good, from what I read.
KMM696
NES Member
I haven't had a chance to really work on the 200gr feed issues. I did find a good article on 1911 feed issues that discussed how check and fix the relationships between the extractor/mag lips/ramp. Now I just have to apply it....
I'd add the link, but I believe it's at work. I do need to get it straightened out - there are a lot of 200 LSWC under the reloading bench!
P-14
NES Member
I have a P14 that I bought used and it had some work done on it before I bought it. Digests all .45 acp flawlessly. My favorite gun to compete in IDPA with. The P14 has over 20000 rounds through it and is still going strong.
drgrant is right, though. If I bought another one, I would have Greg Derr work it over so that it was a reliable as the one I have now.
drgrant is right, though. If I bought another one, I would have Greg Derr work it over so that it was a reliable as the one I have now.
KMM696
NES Member
Check the COAL. I also heartily recommend a Lee Factory Crimp Die.
In 30 seconds or so, EC will tell you why he thinks I'm completely wrong on this issue.![[devil]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/015.gif "Devil [devil]")
![[rofl]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/013.gif "ROFL [rofl]")
Yep.
I do use the Lee FCD on 45 - always worked for me. Getting my P14 to FTF 200s once a mag was a big improvement from where I started. I'll have to check my load notes, but if I remember correctly I tried several different COAL to get it down to 1 FTF per mag. At that point I took the easy way out and switched to 230gr bullets. That has to have been at least 4 years ago, now that I think about it. All those 200 grainers are still sitting there waiting, though, and I don't shoot the S&W 25 often enough to have used them all up. Maybe this winter I'll get to work the P14 with those again.
Paras suck (I have owned three) and their customer service is worse. There are too many good guns on the market to bother with a Para.
PS I love the post about the company rep in Canada promising to test fire a gun in Tennessee.
PS I love the post about the company rep in Canada promising to test fire a gun in Tennessee.
jkelly
Shooting at the big range in heaven
- Joined
- Apr 29, 2005
- Messages
- 2,060
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- 93
I had a C 745 (LDA) and P16-40 for years.
I never liked the C745 (LDA), as its trigger, finish and general quality were poor. I didn’t shoot it very well and was happy to sell it recently. When compared to my Colt Defender the C745 (LDA) was truly lacking.
The P16-40 has functioned well for years after having the internals and the plastic parts (trigger and main spring housing) replaced. It has served as my Limited/Limited 10 gun for years, but it is not a favorite of mine.
Respectfully,
jkelly
I never liked the C745 (LDA), as its trigger, finish and general quality were poor. I didn’t shoot it very well and was happy to sell it recently. When compared to my Colt Defender the C745 (LDA) was truly lacking.
The P16-40 has functioned well for years after having the internals and the plastic parts (trigger and main spring housing) replaced. It has served as my Limited/Limited 10 gun for years, but it is not a favorite of mine.
Respectfully,
jkelly
![[wink]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/002.gif "Wink [wink]")
![[grin]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/041.gif "Grin [grin]")
I'm curious as to wether or not their move will see some improvements in their product line. It;s difficult to ignore the complaints here, but my Para Carry was among my favorite pistols. Their new line of rifles also look pretty interesting....
http://www.ar15pro.com/category/1713-para_ordnance_ar15_rifles.aspx
http://www.ar15pro.com/category/1713-para_ordnance_ar15_rifles.aspx
