• If you enjoy the forum please consider supporting it by signing up for a NES Membership  The benefits pay for the membership many times over.

Optic for ar?

Tallahassee

NES Member
Rating - 100%
12   0   0
Joined
Jul 31, 2013
Messages
1,097
Likes
3,049
Location
Right Behind You
Can't beat Primary Arms for the bargain red dots. They have great customer service, which I have yet to use for one of their dots. I bought a "blemished" on a black Friday a few years back, have beaten the snot out of it, keeps going. I think it still has the original battery in it. But, when people do have a problem, it seems they swap it out very quickly. Usually all it takes is a phone call or email.
I won't recommend vortex, only because my ass is still sore from my gen 1 viper.
 

paul73

NES Member
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
Joined
Oct 30, 2020
Messages
1,813
Likes
1,751
Location
MA

Bullet Bill

NES Member
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
Joined
Sep 6, 2013
Messages
127
Likes
78
Location
Western Mass
The PA cyclops prisms are a great choice imho. Etched reticle with illumination
These are very nice but I cannot shoot them with both eyes open as I am cross eye dominant.

I can shoot a red dot sight or a 2x prism sight with both eyes open just fine but the 1x prsim sight just gives me some weird parallax through my non dominant eye.

Just something to consider. If I break down and shoot left handed for my dominant eye the cyclops works great.

I have a few primaryarms prism s open and love them. I think they have a new smaller 1x prism coming out.
 

DarthRevan

NES Member
Rating - 100%
6   0   0
Joined
Jan 8, 2014
Messages
6,426
Likes
4,687
Location
Lynn, MA
These are very nice but I cannot shoot them with both eyes open as I am cross eye dominant.

I can shoot a red dot sight or a 2x prism sight with both eyes open just fine but the 1x prsim sight just gives me some weird parallax through my non dominant eye.

Just something to consider. If I break down and shoot left handed for my dominant eye the cyclops works great.

I have a few primaryarms prism s open and love them. I think they have a new smaller 1x prism coming out.
It’s worth it to learn how to shoot left handed if you’re cross dominant. It’s what I did.
 
Rating - 100%
10   0   0
Joined
Apr 23, 2017
Messages
703
Likes
1,111
Swampfox has some nice prism sights, as well as regular dots and LPVOs, they're releasing a bunch of new stuff this week but it's a solid company putting out some decent stuff at a good price point.
 
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
Joined
Jul 18, 2019
Messages
152
Likes
202
got 2 PA prism scopes on my ar's. The 2.5x was $200 from PA, the 3x was $290...I really like them both but understand why the 3x is $90 more. For 100 yards either is great with my 60 plus year old eyes, at 200 the 3x surprised the heck out me with the clarity. FWIW, also cross eye dominant, but have learned with LER scopes and the ACOG style/red dots to let the left eye look past the optic. Took awhile, but the training is well worth it. If you're left eye/right handed, try turning your head to the left a bit and keep your eyes focused past the gun.
 

PappyM3

NES Member
Rating - 100%
18   0   0
Joined
Mar 31, 2012
Messages
2,631
Likes
2,822
It may be a vision thing. It's not even that an Eotech is unusable to me, the circle and the dot are clear enough, it just looks fuzzy/shitty. I will say this though, every eotech I've ever used in real life, looks worse than it does in the pictures people put up of their reticles, so it may be my eyes.
That’s an Eotech by design. The holographic technology makes the ring look like a whole bunch of tiny pixels... which looks fuzzy/noisy unless using a magnifier, then it oooks like pixels.
 

PappyM3

NES Member
Rating - 100%
18   0   0
Joined
Mar 31, 2012
Messages
2,631
Likes
2,822
I’m very partial to the ACOG after starting off in the broke college phase of gun ownership to where I am now. The Sparc II is a good enough entry dot, but the new Sig optics are impressive too.
If you can, save money for an ACOG, do it.
View attachment 453677
View attachment 453678
The ACOG hold a special place in my heart. So simple, robust, relatively light, great glass and FOV. I don’t even mind the short eye relief. My only complaint now that I’m getting older and I need to hold books further from my eyes... is there is no ocular focus. It’s still great for that 20 something to mid 30 somethings.

And even with some slowness to focus, I can still rock ‘em pretty good though.
 

teamRR

NES Member
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
Joined
Apr 24, 2019
Messages
1,740
Likes
1,321
These are very nice but I cannot shoot them with both eyes open as I am cross eye dominant.

I can shoot a red dot sight or a 2x prism sight with both eyes open just fine but the 1x prsim sight just gives me some weird parallax through my non dominant eye.

Just something to consider. If I break down and shoot left handed for my dominant eye the cyclops works great.

I have a few primaryarms prism s open and love them. I think they have a new smaller 1x prism coming out.
It’s worth it to learn how to shoot left handed if you’re cross dominant. It’s what I did.

Unless you have a significant vision difference you can train around it, learn to cancel that dominant eye out. I sorta can but results vary, can be annoying, and if I really want to shoot well am just gonna close my left eye and avoid the entire possibility of distraction.

Isn't really practical to be shooting rifles lefty, sure you can buy a lefty version in many but it limits your options, increases cost, or makes the gun goofy. Go looking for a lefty AR10 for instance, or even an AR15 in your brand if choice likely doesn't exist.

Most people are just closing that eye, even if they aren't cross dominant.
 

DarthRevan

NES Member
Rating - 100%
6   0   0
Joined
Jan 8, 2014
Messages
6,426
Likes
4,687
Location
Lynn, MA
Unless you have a significant vision difference you can train around it, learn to cancel that dominant eye out. I sorta can but results vary, can be annoying, and if I really want to shoot well am just gonna close my left eye and avoid the entire possibility of distraction.

Isn't really practical to be shooting rifles lefty, sure you can buy a lefty version in many but it limits your options, increases cost, or makes the gun goofy. Go looking for a lefty AR10 for instance, or even an AR15 in your brand if choice likely doesn't exist.

Most people are just closing that eye, even if they aren't cross dominant.
No increase in cost on my end, all my firearms are still right handed. YMMV
I shoot pistols right handed, and long guns left, no big deal.
 
Rating - 100%
1   0   0
Joined
Nov 8, 2005
Messages
26,628
Likes
4,896
... for short to mid distance.
For longer distances a 1-6x optic is great. For a submoa hunting rifle a 3-15x optics will be great
What distance do you hunt at? 15X? I'd say the 100 yards is on the long side for most places I've been.
 

paul73

NES Member
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
Joined
Oct 30, 2020
Messages
1,813
Likes
1,751
Location
MA
What distance do you hunt at? 15X? I'd say the 100 yards is on the long side for most places I've been.
Depends upon a game and how close you can get. Shooting a bird at 100yd a 10x scope works well.
As a matter of fact I plan on putting 4-12x40 vortex diamondback on a 22lr rifle.
 

MaduroBU

NES Member
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
Joined
Feb 26, 2021
Messages
30
Likes
56
Location
Houston, TX
I built a throw-around BRN-180 for practice/competition and put a Vortex Strikefire II with a Venom mounted on the scope's integral picatinny cant rail. I didn't expect much, but the honest answer is that I like it almost as much as my HAMR/Deltapoint. As I get older, I am repeatedly remind of Warren Buffet's wisdom: "Price is what you pay, value is what you get." Spending more doesn't always translate into getting more.
 

frenchman

NES Member
Rating - 100%
1   0   0
Joined
Sep 13, 2012
Messages
7,334
Likes
5,478
With a higher priced optic, you don’t pay for glass or emitters. You pay more for ruggedness. If you don’t need “go to war” quality, then go with Vortex, holosun,PA or what have you. If you want the good stuff, Aimpoint, Eotech or Trijicon. Full stop, end of story.
 

kevblah

NES Member
Rating - 100%
15   0   0
Joined
May 31, 2012
Messages
283
Likes
524
Location
North Shore
Holosun makes their own, the Primary Arms and the Sig Romeo 5. Buy whichever has the feature set and cost point you want. They are all essentially the same. I prefer the Romeo 5 but it’s personal preference at that point. They are all made in the same place with the same quality, just different names on the side and slightly different features

Just say it, they're made in china. 🤮
 

PappyM3

NES Member
Rating - 100%
18   0   0
Joined
Mar 31, 2012
Messages
2,631
Likes
2,822
With a higher priced optic, you don’t pay for glass or emitters. You pay more for ruggedness. If you don’t need “go to war” quality, then go with Vortex, holosun,PA or what have you. If you want the good stuff, Aimpoint, Eotech or Trijicon. Full stop, end of story.
Eh, it used to be you were paying for ruggedness, glass, and repeatable precise tracking. Now you’re paying for glass and tracking more than ruggedness. Holosuns, and hell even primary arms LPVOs will take a beating. The world of optics has changed in the past 10 years.

Sometimes you’re paying for extra ruggedness, like with Nightforce, ACOGs, Leupold Mk6es, or the Vortex Razors. But then you also have people paying extra for Kahles scopes, which are actually fairly delicate.

I’ve got a Nightforce, Trijicons, and an aimpoint, but I would absolutely be confident bringing a Holosun 507/508/509 on a deployment as an offset red dot. I’d also feel confident with a Holosun 515, but prefer an Eotech when I have a constant supply of batteries like in the mil. In fact I’m planning on using an offset 509 if I get orders any time in the near future. And if I didn’t have the funds for a better scope, I’d also be fine with bringing a Primary Arms 1-6 Slx or GLx, or a Vortex PST. The PST has seen some serious use and abuse overseas with ODAs and SMUs. But even with funds, I’m looking at the Vortex Razor Gen III for use if I need it on deployment. And that’s with being able to get the Razor Gen III and ATACR for close to the same money. I’d still choose the Vortex. So... deploying with a Holosun and Vortex, yeah I’d be confident.

On the flip side, while a high end optic like Kahles has great glass, I would definitely not bring it overseas.
 
Last edited:

TargetShooter21

NES Member
Rating - 100%
9   0   0
Joined
Jun 21, 2019
Messages
86
Likes
107
Location
MA
Eh, it used to be you were paying for ruggedness, glass, and repeatable precise tracking. Now you’re paying for glass and tracking more than ruggedness. Holosuns, and hell even primary arms LPVOs will take a beating. The world of optics has changed in the past 10 years.

Sometimes you’re paying for extra ruggedness, like with Nightforce, ACOGs, Leupold Mk6es, or the Vortex Razors. But then you also have people paying extra for Kahles scopes, which are actually fairly delicate.

I’ve got a Nightforce, Trijicons, and an aimpoint, but I would absolutely be confident bringing a Holosun 507/508/509 on a deployment as an offset red dot. I’d also feel confident with a Holosun 515, but prefer an Eotech when I have a constant supply of batteries like in the mil. In fact I’m planning on using an offset 509 if I get orders any time in the near future. And if I didn’t have the funds for a better scope, I’d also be fine with bringing a Primary Arms 1-6 Slx or GLx, or a Vortex PST. The PST has seen some serious use and abuse overseas with ODAs and SMUs. But even with funds, I’m looking at the Vortex Razor Gen III for use if I need it on deployment. And that’s with being able to get the Razor Gen III and ATACR for close to the same money. I’d still choose the Vortex. So... deploying with a Holosun and Vortex, yeah I’d be confident.

On the flip side, while a high end optic like Kahles has great glass, I would definitely not bring it overseas.
Curious why you would chose the Razor over the ATACR even if the cost differences are negligible - could you elaborate?

I’m considering getting both to try out and compare to see if the ATACR is worth the extra investment.
 

PappyM3

NES Member
Rating - 100%
18   0   0
Joined
Mar 31, 2012
Messages
2,631
Likes
2,822
Curious why you would chose the Razor over the ATACR even if the cost differences are negligible - could you elaborate?

I’m considering getting both to try out and compare to see if the ATACR is worth the extra investment.

Don’t get me wrong, the ATACR 1-8 seems like a fantastic scope. A few of my reasons though, listed from least to most significant:

4. The ATACR FC-DM reticle had some minor issues with occlusion of the target, but it seems they have fixed that with a recent 2021 reticle update to the FC-DMx.

3. An extra 2x ... why not? In a military application anyway, extra magnification for target ID or just scanning possible threats in the distance is extremely helpful. I’ve used magnified optics for IDing threats or obtaining information for intelligence debriefs much more frequently than for actual engagements.

2. For certain applications, I prefer to have a calibrated BDC reticle. Which the Vortex offers. For some situations I’m okay with a MIL Christmas tree, but when possible, I prefer a calibrated BDC for the extra speed it affords. But if you’re going for a non-standard caliber or will be changing loads/calibers then the MIL tree is superior.

1. The biggest reason is that the ATACR’s diopter adjustment is not independent of the zoom. So, the diopter adjustment changes as you change magnification. That just seems rather annoying. For a 20-35 year old, that probably isn’t a big deal. But as you approach 40 and your near-sighted acuity diminishes and it takes longer to shift focus, diopter adjustments are important. You can set it at 8x nicely, but then flip the power to 1x and the reticle will get a little blurry.
 
Last edited:
Rating - 100%
1   0   0
Joined
Nov 8, 2005
Messages
26,628
Likes
4,896
Over the years I’ve tried variable power scopes, Aimpoint PROs, Aimpoint T2s, and 3x Acogs...the TA44 is the best AR optic I’ve ever owned and I would buy another in a heartbeat...if I could find one in stock.
Pretty sure I saw some at the Gun Parlor several years ago.
 

paul73

NES Member
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
Joined
Oct 30, 2020
Messages
1,813
Likes
1,751
Location
MA
I just moved optics around my rifles, sent some back to Amazon and settled tavor with the at3 x3 prism - and it is actually surprisingly quite ok for its $230. Not an acog by any means, but, image is clear and reticle is usable.
 

01906

NES Member
Rating - 100%
11   0   0
Joined
Nov 18, 2016
Messages
1,387
Likes
1,995
For anyone looking for a budget prisom scope. For 100 yards or under I would give this a shot. I had it to the range twice a couple hundred rounds through it holds zero. Only downfall I can see the rectile probably covers 5 MOA at 100 yards. Taking my time off of bench I was able to shoot 1.5 moa with it centering on a paper target. For a cheap optic you won't be disappointed.
View: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07TP444M7/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_glc_fabc_K51GBXZNE72YW05C00BH
 

paul73

NES Member
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
Joined
Oct 30, 2020
Messages
1,813
Likes
1,751
Location
MA
For anyone looking for a budget prisom scope. For 100 yards or under I would give this a shot. I had it to the range twice a couple hundred rounds through it holds zero. Only downfall I can see the rectile probably covers 5 MOA at 100 yards. Taking my time off of bench I was able to shoot 1.5 moa with it centering on a paper target. For a cheap optic you won't be disappointed.
View: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07TP444M7/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_glc_fabc_K51GBXZNE72YW05C00BH
On all factors - build quality, reticle, lens caps - this is a better one. Cheaper than primary arms 3x prism and frankly same good. Only downside- an additional inch of eye relief would be nice, but 2.8” is also usable.

PS. So, i zeroed tavor with it today - worked fine. the dot on top of the reticle is very small, but was workable fine, i was able to hit a bullseye with tavor from 100yds fine. great tactical prism, i am quite happy it did not cost an arm and a leg.
 
Last edited:

1903Collector

NES Member
Rating - 100%
77   0   0
Joined
Jan 24, 2007
Messages
4,501
Likes
1,523
Location
Armpit region
Everybody has their favorites, I have Aimpoint's on all my carbines, M4s, m3s and a pro. Rifles have Burris XTRs and my A2 clone has nada. On a couple of other guns I put C-More railway's on them and I really like that red dot as well.
 

paul73

NES Member
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
Joined
Oct 30, 2020
Messages
1,813
Likes
1,751
Location
MA
i kinda start getting a bit obsessed about this one:

but cannot find enough reviews to make up my mind. one i saw was saying this:

"Amazing scope but I feel it should be for the price ! so I’m used to shooting with the mark 5 scopes which to me is the best I have used, but it’s not offered in a 1x10 .. vortex has done an amazing job with this scope.. The reason for 4 stars is the Very tight eye box!! on high power settings, and no parallax ( side or fine focus ) adjustment which made it impossible for me to get it set perfectly at near and far targets , a quick turn of the eye piece would pretty much take care of this or split the difference and it is very usable even good but not as good as it can be with a bit more focusing . I could be to critical as it is an amazing scope but wanted to share this info hope it helps"


Is there anybody here who have had a chance to actually look at it, yet? it is also obvious why they keep it in razor line and do not hurry to put a viper model out, so, price is a huge factor also.
 
Rating - 100%
2   0   0
Joined
Jun 20, 2013
Messages
17,630
Likes
13,432
Location
Southern NH
i kinda start getting a bit obsessed about this one:

but cannot find enough reviews to make up my mind. one i saw was saying this:

"Amazing scope but I feel it should be for the price ! so I’m used to shooting with the mark 5 scopes which to me is the best I have used, but it’s not offered in a 1x10 .. vortex has done an amazing job with this scope.. The reason for 4 stars is the Very tight eye box!! on high power settings, and no parallax ( side or fine focus ) adjustment which made it impossible for me to get it set perfectly at near and far targets , a quick turn of the eye piece would pretty much take care of this or split the difference and it is very usable even good but not as good as it can be with a bit more focusing . I could be to critical as it is an amazing scope but wanted to share this info hope it helps"


Is there anybody here who have had a chance to actually look at it, yet? it is also obvious why they keep it in razor line and do not hurry to put a viper model out, so, price is a huge factor also.

Probably the most popular optic amongst competitive 3-gun shooters. So I’d wager it’s quite good. I don’t have any experience with it though so probably not much of a help.
 

paul73

NES Member
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
Joined
Oct 30, 2020
Messages
1,813
Likes
1,751
Location
MA
Probably the most popular optic amongst competitive 3-gun shooters. So I’d wager it’s quite good. I don’t have any experience with it though so probably not much of a help.
as i definitely do not have and will not have $2k to spare any time soon, i decided to try this one:

Athlon Helos BTR GEN2 1-10x​

View: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B08ZM7661L
against mine 1-6x viper pst2. if it will look like garbage i will send it back. will see. reviews are quite mixed on that one.
 
Top Bottom