Opening an indoor range? Anyone with experience?

Mike S

Mike S

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Out walking past the old Mill in my town last night, looking at all the empty buildings/floors that could be rented for a song and it got me to thinking.

Would it be financially feasible and could an indoor only range make a profit? Or at least make enough to keep the lights on?

What would it take in the way of capital and permits? (assuming it would be a 6 to 10 lane range)

I know there are a few here and there in N.E. and I'm wondering how they do.

Any feedback would be great.

[grin]
 
snorider48 said:
Out walking past the old Mill in my town last night, looking at all the empty buildings/floors that could be rented for a song and it got me to thinking.

Would it be financially feasible and could an indoor only range make a profit? Or at least make enough to keep the lights on?

What would it take in the way of capital and permits? (assuming it would be a 6 to 10 lane range)

I know there are a few here and there in N.E. and I'm wondering how they do.

Any feedback would be great.

[grin]
Click to expand...

all depends on how much you want to do. where are you looking to open one?
 
I was thinking about the mill in downtown Maynard. Once again, this is just an exploration into the feasibility/cost.
 
Minimum about $50,000 for the trap, then add the ventilation, ports, insurance, and that doesn't include reinforcing the walls or ceiling. When I looked at it, I was at $120,000 before construction.
 
If someone is leasing something, don't lease it. You will hear the owner say that is a good business but they don't have the time, etc, etc. But if you want to go ahead anyways, or if you find an empty lot and you want to build on it for the purpose you are talking about, remember the following:

1st Ask the city if you can do it.

2nd Ask for the cost of the insurance before you build.

3rd Do a social economic survey.

4th If the city allows you to do it, the insurance’s price is okay with you, and the survey reviews are good. Ask an engineer for the cost of the plans, etc. Remember, even if it is already set up, you will need to do something different to create a center of attention for old and new customers.

5th After the Blue Prints are done and pay for, you will need to present them to the city. Now, the City can tell you if you can do or not what it is on the Blue Prints.

6th If you are appoved by the City, hire a good GC (General Contractor) who built something like that before.

7th You can forget about getting a final price from a General Contractor. Change Orders will be needed in order to have your finish product. In construction nothing goes as planed, period.

8th After everything is done, get ready because you will not see a profit on years to come.

9th Good luck in your achievement and if you need any help about the project just let me know and I will be more than happy to help you.

Ish.
 
KMM696 said:
Really - Where??
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I think he's making a joke about the Westfield Gun Club.

Also, anything that requires a zoning change or exception is almost impossible to get through. NIMBY's will drag out the process for months or years, and then if you get approved they will sue.

Don't forget the cost of complying with OSHA regulations for your employees. Yup, you will need employees and benefits for them. The cost of health care insurance is breathtaking.
 
Rob Boudrie said:
Mailing a small fortune in the range business is easy. Start with a large one.
Click to expand...

So funny and true! That got you some Rep Points Rob!

snorider48 said:
I was thinking about the mill in downtown Maynard. Once again, this is just an exploration into the feasibility/cost.
Click to expand...

Since you are talking about my old stomping grounds. I spent 12 years of my life there and knew most of the nooks and crannies . . . still have a historical picture of the original woolen mill downstairs.

I'll offer some advice based on my "inside information" about the facility.

- The place is a MAJOR, MAJOR fire-trap! Almost 100 years of grease from sheep's wool permeated all the wood in the floors and we knew if there was even a small fire, the place would go up like a tinderbox.[History: It was a woolen mill, made blankets for the Union Army in the Civil War and for many years afterwards.]

- Some of the buildings have major structural defects. It was rumored that Bldg 3 was actually condemned a few times.

- One of the clubs I belong to is building an indoor range. Although the steel backstop/plates have been in place for many years, the cost is estimated in the $150K+ range for 8 shooting lanes IIRC. The cost for a commercial range I would guess would probably be $250-500K in that type of location. Ventilation and EPA/DEP would be major road-blocks.

- The only suitable part of the Mill for a range would be at the basement floor level (concrete floor). Building 5 floods (below the Mill Pond water line) any time one of the sump pumps fails. I used to have a lab down there and waded into it a few times before we built a lab elsewhere.

- I seriously doubt that the Fire Chief would ever approve this use for the Mill. See my comments above wrt a fire-trap.

- I don't know if Paint Ball is still "hot" or not, but the Mill would be an ideal place for this. Lots of natural nooks and crannies for such FOF activity. EPA/DEP and fire hazards wouldn't be an issue, nor would ventilation be an issue.

- An Airsoft FOF training facility would also be another good use.

Sigh, I really loved that old Mill, it was a great place to work for those of us with an appreciation of old construction and history. [sad]
 
M1911 said:
I think he's making a joke about the Westfield Gun Club.

Also, anything that requires a zoning change or exception is almost impossible to get through. NIMBY's will drag out the process for months or years, and then if you get approved they will sue.

Don't forget the cost of complying with OSHA regulations for your employees. Yup, you will need employees and benefits for them. The cost of health care insurance is breathtaking.
Click to expand...


I was told by a resident of Hadley that the range was closed down! He might be wrong.
 
LenS said:
- The place is a MAJOR, MAJOR fire-trap! Almost 100 years of grease from sheep's wool permeated all the wood in the floors and we knew if there was even a small fire, the place would go up like a tinderbox.[History: It was a woolen mill, made blankets for the Union Army in the Civil War and for many years afterwards.]
Click to expand...

Just add a bunch of unburnt powder and you're all set [flame]
 
sig2009 said:
I was told by a resident of Hadley that the range was closed down! He might be wrong.
Click to expand...

He might be - I was shooting there 2 weeks ago. Of course, every time I roll up to their gate now, I'm looking for a 'Closed' sign. I suppose that won't be until after any potential civil actions are disposed of. [sad]
 
These days, any range that would get the blessing of the town/city elders will have to be designed to contain any bullet within the building, no matter what.

That's no small feat.

Ask our friend up at Manchester Firing Line what it took to get all the permits.

The NRA will bend over backwards to assist with range design, and with a person who designs ranges. They can also send professionals to help you talk with the town/city officials.

If you did it near a good urban location (Boston, Worcester, etc), you would get all of the law enforcement people wanting freebies, which isn't a bad thing. It might actually help the town/city elders lean in your direction.

I think the $120,000 figure is low, considering the current costs of designing and building a facility which will absolutely contain any bullet fired within it.
 
DukeInMaine said:
I think the $120,000 figure is low, considering the current costs of designing and building a facility which will absolutely contain any bullet fired within it.
Click to expand...
My guess is that you'd need $500k - $1M and at least 2 years of planning to really make a go of it. Assume you'd lose money for at least the first year.

The bigger problem, though is the cheap competition. There are many gun clubs nearby and they are very cheap to join. Why pay $X/hour to rent a lane at a public range in, say, Maynard, when you could join Riverside in Hudson, Maynard Rod & Gun Club in Maynard, Harvard Sportsman's in Harvard, Concord Rod & Gun Club in Concord, or Nashoba Sportsman's Club in Action?
 
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M1911 said:
My guess is that you'd need $500k - $1M and at least 2 years of planning to really make a go of it. Assume you'd lose money for at least the first year.

The bigger problem, though is the cheap competition. There are many gun clubs nearby and they are very cheap to join. Why pay $X/hour to rent a lane at a public range in, say, Maynard, when you could join Riverside in Hudson, Maynard Rod & Gun Club in Maynard, Harvard Sportsman's in Harvard, Concord Rod & Gun Club in Concord, or Nashoba Sportsman's Club in Action?
Click to expand...

I know the biggest draw for the range in Monson (when it was still open) was the incredible variety of rental guns they had. That drew a lot of people in - lots of ranges around, indoor & outdoor, but besides S&W where can you try out a pistol in Western Mass?

That was a 50 mile drive for me, and I'd still make it there every three months or so. And it's not like I had a shortage of my own stuff to shoot. I'd guess that my average per visit was $150, between range, rentals and ammo. More than that the afternoon I discovered Colt 9mm carbines and 44 mag revolvers! [smile]
 
One important issue is the local CLEOs interpretation of the level of supervision required for a non-licensee to shoot. A big chunk of commercial range revenue is new shooters and the LEO interpretation of the level of supervision required under MGL ranges from "As long as rental guns don't leave the building" to "LTC holder personally accompanying the shooter at all times while they are holding a gun". The later interpretation is the one taken by the Worcester chief after a suicide.

Also, remember the range in Cambridge? When the owner fought being closed down after a second suicide in many years, they want after - and got - his LTC and MG license in addition to shutting down his business. It was sort of like the Rodney Danger field joke - they not only sacked the quarterback - they went after his entire family.
 
DukeInMaine said:
I think the $120,000 figure is low, considering the current costs of designing and building a facility which will absolutely contain any bullet fired within it.
Click to expand...

I have not tried to read old HSC newsletters but I thought they were talking $300k to re-do their indoor range, I think using Savage or S&W bullet traps.

On the other hand I think towns get more property tax on occupied than un-occupied commercial space. I think every town within 495 has an underutilized mill building.

Bill
 
$120,000 was the trap, hangers and ports. NOT including any construction or ventilation.
and I never got to daily operating expensenses. I would expect 1m to 1.2m to start and run for 6 months.
 
Assuming you can get zoning from the town the first step I would take is doing a demographic study. Check with Goal, the NRA and try and get numbers on households with guns, check census data, local law enforcement, etc. If the location looks like it will support sustained use then you need to start considering a business plan, check the SBA and meet with and SBE advisor.

Run a cash flow analysis projecting were you will be in 5 years. First 1-2 years do it each month after that you can run an annual.

Look at your start up costs, Architect plans & spec, tenant improvements, permiting, office supplies, etc. Obtain funding. Add in all your monthly operating expenses such as water, sewer, electric, gas, taxes, rent, payroll, insuarnce, interest on the money you borrowed to fund your start up if no loan pay yourself the interest, and most importantly look at your ROI. In my opinion you want to have at least 6 months operating capital on hand before you start.

Look at what your monthly sales will be based upon the research you did earlier with goal, census, etc.

Make sure income is higher than your expenses and your on the road to making money.

Plan for problems along the way. Increases in taxes, rent, problems with ventilation system repairs, lack of the projected customers. Check with someone who owns an indoor range. Check out every one within 500 miles stop by and see what type of traffic they have look for ideas. Ask to speak with the Owner and ask them questions. As long as you don't present competition to them you will find most people are willing to help.

Don't tell anyone your location. If you found one that will work there will be somone out there with more cash, connections in town or something else and they will beat you to the punch.

Good luck.
 
Guys, thanks for all the info, looks like you answered my main question which is, that it is not financially feasible to open a range as I can't see it recovering even 200K in any amount of time, never mind 500K as proposed by some.

Lens, we must have crossed paths a few times back in the day, when Digital was in its prime I worked down in Shipping/Receiving on 1/1, I did all the in house deliveries, used to know the entire place like the back of my hand. Where was your lab/office?
 
My earliest days were in MLO8 in the basement. I was a 3rd shift production supervisor in the Board Shop. My group was spread out in MLO3, ML07, MLO8, MLO9.

Went back to a real life in Engineering (Corporate Product Safety) in PKO3-2 (our labs were in MLO5 basement) until hired by Terminals & Workstations to start up a product safety group in MLO3-4.

We later moved to ML04-3 IIRC and set up a lab there.

I also spent time in MLO12-1 until the "new" executive entrance was built and we were thrown out. [I was across the hall from BJ, Dave Cutler and the other VPs.]

I think there was another move in here as well.

Then we moved to MLO6-1/U30 and we built a lab there. Plant Engineering was across the hall from us. I spent most of my years in this location. Overlooking the Assabet and Walnut St.

ETA: I was one of the founding members of the DEC Firearms Notesfile (for non DECcie lurkers . . . precursor to forums like NES) and owner of the Masonic Notesfile.
 
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Yes, I know exactly where you were, I haven't thought about those places in ages. Is my memory correct in that there was a library on 4/3? With a REALLY cute librarian (dark hair, tall, thin) I had such a crush on her.. That was my first job out of high school.
 

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