KBCraig
NES Member
This is why we argue that "close enough" isn't good enough when it comes to legislation. You always have to ignore the intent, and look at how it can be read literally, by someone willing to ignore the intent.
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No doubt prosecuted by the same NH Prosecutors that said there was no need for Stand Your Ground laws to protect us against overzealous Prosecutors. Rat-bastards...
I'm curious - the law might have originated as an LEO safety bill, intending all guns not carried with a NH Pistol & Revolver License (P&RL) be unloaded and locked in the trunk. But there might have been compromises that allowed unloaded guns to be transported, not in plain sight, anywhere in the vehicle, without a NH P&RL. Or maybe just the typical poorly worded law that become ambiguous on the day of enactment. Anyone know the legislative history of this law?
or must contain a magazine, cylinder, or clip inserted in or otherwise adjoined to the firearm such that the firearm can be discharged through normal operation.
Even the SJC would have gotten that one right.
Prosecutors argued that the law that defines a loaded pistol should be construed broadly to include the proximity of ammunition to the weapon in the interest of public safety.
I'm glad of the outcome but what a waste of tax payers money. Plus the money that cost the defendant. Shame on them.
Did the prosecutor file an information to take this to trial rather than putting it before a grand jury? What kind of idiots on a grand jury would have decided to charge someone with a carrying a loaded gun when the magazine and +1 weren't even in the gun?
If the guy has a good lawyer, he'll get the fees paid for by the AG's office.
Please forgive me for being slow....
It was my understanding based on info from free state friends and half-assed goggle-fu that a non-licensed MA resident could carry a handgun in NH open if loaded, and concealed as long as there was no ammo on their person. This interpretation led to one NH resident carrying 12 mags for 4 different pistols, causing his pants to fall down.
Based on this ruling, the new understanding is that a MA resident can carry concealed as long as the mag is not in the gun?
Or does it merely require the chamber to be empty?
The key at this juncture is to be glad they came to the right conclusion, but to take heed of what it means that the question was asked at all...
It means they are coming. NH is not MA, but much as with national policy we need to go on the offensive and crush this gun-grabbing culture at every level so that people do not have to spend untold thousands of dollars answering dumb questions like this in the courts. We need an educated and free jury pool who knows right from wrong and won't allow agenda driven prosecutions. We need the same as judges and prosecutors.
Complacency cost us dearly in the last century. Don't repeat that mistake and realize that the current judges won't be there for ever. Who will replace them?
Please forgive me for being slow....
It was my understanding based on info from free state friends and half-assed goggle-fu that a non-licensed MA resident could carry a handgun in NH open if loaded, and concealed as long as there was no ammo on their person. This interpretation led to one NH resident carrying 12 mags for 4 different pistols, causing his pants to fall down.
Based on this ruling, the new understanding is that a MA resident can carry concealed as long as the mag is not in the gun?
Or does it merely require the chamber to be empty?
INAL, but based on my understanding of the court ruling, you could carry a firearm concealed on your body, unchambered and no magazine in the magazine well (keep magazine in pocket) and be fully compliant with the law.
What's not clear to me at this point is what "loaded" means. They talk about "normal operation". Does "normal operation" mean you just have to pull the trigger (and flip the manual safety, if equipped)? Or does "normal operation" also include racking the slide?
If loaded does mean a loaded magazine in the mag well, does that also mean that it has to be "attached" in that the magazine release engages? Or can you just have the mag "sitting" in the mag well?
"the pistol or revolver must contain a cartridge in the chamber or must contain a magazine, cylinder, or clip inserted in or otherwise adjoined to the firearm such that the firearm can be discharged through normal operation. " Looks to me that if you have a mag safety and pull the mag out but leave one in the chamber, you're good to go.
The best part about this is that for people like me who don't want to have another CCW license and won't be getting one. You can conceal carry unloaded, open carry loaded and only have to pop the mag out but not unholster the gun when getting into a vehicle.
Ok, you can be the first one to test that theory.
It's already been tested, hence the thread.
So, water must be in a glass in order to be a glass of water? Brilliant legal opinion.
Of course now, it begs the question, why even having a P&R license at all? As in, the state could now abolish it since it's practically meaningless.
Constitutional Carry is now a few notches closer to becoming a reality in NH.
The wording in RSA 159:4 is "a loaded pistol or revolver", NH law doesn't care how you transport a gun if it isn't loaded.Based on this ruling, the new understanding is that a MA resident can carry concealed as long as the mag is not in the gun? Or does it merely require the chamber to be empty?
They don't use the attached phrasing here, only in the F&G regulations on long arms (RSA 207:7), which is a whole separate broken bit of the law in need of cleanup.If loaded does mean a loaded magazine in the mag well, does that also mean that it has to be "attached" in that the magazine release engages? Or can you just have the mag "sitting" in the mag well?
"the pistol or revolver must contain a cartridge in the chamber or must contain a magazine, cylinder, or clip inserted in or otherwise adjoined to the firearm such that the firearm can be discharged through normal operation. " Looks to me that if you have a mag safety and pull the mag out but leave one in the chamber, you're good to go.
It has always been the law that a permit is only needed for two things:Based on this ruling, the new understanding is that a MA resident can carry concealed as long as the mag is not in the gun?
That was not specifically addressed by the court. The "normal mode of operation" could, theoretically, mean it's not "loaded" if you have to rack the slide.Or does it merely require the chamber to be empty?
The first sentence of RSA 159:4 prohibits a person from carrying a
“loaded” pistol or revolver in any vehicle without a valid license. As pertinent
here, “loaded” is defined as “containing an explosive charge.” Webster’s Third
New International Dictionary, supra at 1326 (emphasis added). “Loaded” is
also the past participle of the verb “load,” which means “to put a load on or in a
carrier, device, machine, or container; [specifically] to insert the charge or
cartridge in the chamber of a firearm.” Id. at 1325 (emphasis added). Based
on these definitions, a “loaded” pistol or revolver may mean a pistol or revolver
containing a cartridge in the chamber, see id., or, more broadly, a pistol or
revolver containing a cartridge in any position from which it can be fired, see
id. at 1326; People v. Clark, 53 Cal. Rptr. 2d 99, 102 (Ct. App. 1996).
We conclude the legislature intended the second sentence of RSA 159:4
to clarify that “loaded” should be defined according to the broader of the two
accepted meanings above. Therefore, a “loaded pistol or revolver” means not
only a pistol or revolver that contains a cartridge in the chamber, but also a
pistol or revolver containing a cylinder, magazine, or clip with a cartridge that
can be discharged through the normal operation of the firearm.
The shotgun here is a single-shot shotgun. When the police seized the shotgun, it did not have a shell in the firing chamber. There were, however, three shells located in a covered compartment at the rear of the shotgun's stock. It is not possible to fire a shell from that location; a shell would have to be removed from the compartment and placed by hand in the chamber before it could be fired.
Under the commonly understood meaning of the term "loaded," a firearm is "loaded" when a shell or cartridge has been placed into a position from which it can be fired; the shotgun is not "loaded" if the shell or cartridge is stored elsewhere and not yet placed in a firing position.
Our goal is to
apply statutes in light of the legislature’s intent in enacting them, and in light
of the policy sought to be advanced by the entire statutory scheme. Id. We will
not consider what the legislature might have said or add language that the
legislature did not see fit to include.
A loaded pistol or revolver shall include any pistol or revolver with a magazine, cylinder, chamber or clip in which there are loaded cartridges