My Take on Wolf Ammo .223 Photo Heavy

[P-14]

I use Wolf JHP 75 gr. 223 for hunting deer in NYS. Very nice groups out to 250 yards (the max. distance tested) with the NES-group-buy-I AR that has the White Oak SPR 1x7 barrel.

I sighted in the NES-GB-II M4gery with 55 gr. Wolf JHPs and they worked fine through the Remsport M4 SS barrel.

Conclusion: My 2 ARs will eat Wolf ammo and ask for more.

 

[cekim]

If someone's willing to provide me with a few cases I'd be happy to run a few thousand rounds through my AR in a day.

I use silver bear for plinking... already put thousands of rounds through my evil black pinker without any failure (I have a case-per-month habit ). It is a soft load - starts dropping like airsoft after ~200 yds...

But, but does reasonably well at 100 and everything you could ask of it less than that for carbine fun...

Exousia, do you have a heavy spring? I've never had any failure whatsoever in 3 different rifles (2 carbine length, one rifle length buffer). Most of them (the vast majority) have all gone through one rifle though...

It isn't match ammo (that's putting it lightly), but it makes holes in stuff and goes bang which is all I ask of it... (the hollow point 62gr stuff actually makes a nice mess of liquid filled containers... )

 

[Dirtypacman]

I use it for plinking myself - I keep the some better performing ammo in reserve.
I have never had any problem with it in any of 4-5 rifles I have used it.

 

[PatMcD]

I use Wolf JHP 75 gr. 223 for hunting deer in NYS. Very nice groups out to 250 yards (the max. distance tested) with the NES-group-buy-I AR that has the White Oak SPR 1x7 barrel.

I sighted in the NES-GB-II M4gery with 55 gr. Wolf JHPs and they worked fine through the Remsport M4 SS barrel.

Conclusion: My 2 ARs will eat Wolf ammo and ask for more.

You do reallize that that isn't a hunting bullet, right? It's basically a FMJ bullet, and those are not recommended for humanely killing large game.

 

[ScottS]

It's the laquer coating on the steel cases that doesn't thrill me. I can see that gumming up the chamber.
No, I've never shot any Wolf center-fire ammo in any of my guns. From the looks of the photos from the original poster, I don't see me having much fun with 6+ MOA ammo.

In fairness, that looks like about 4MOA in the pics.

There are probably more urban legends surrounding Wolf ammo that almost anything else. Everyone's "heard" something, or "knew a guy who..." but very few people who have shot a lot of it have too much bad to say about it. I commend the OP for actually shooting a bunch and reporting his results/thoughts.

ETA: I'm always amused by the number of people who will declare "I'll never shoot Wolf in my guns! Reloads, sure, but no Wolf!" Reloads have blown up more guns that steel-cased ammo could ever do.

I'm surprised no one has commented on the unintentional humor in the OP, specifically the "M4gery" (a term to describe an "M4 Forgery," i.e. a weapon built to replicate an M4 carbine as closely as possible) with a fixed stock and beautiful 24 inch stainless steel bull barrel.

 

[massgun]

I have never used steel cased ammo in my AR, factory or my reloads only.

 

[P-14]

You do reallize that that isn't a hunting bullet, right? It's basically a FMJ bullet, and those are not recommended for humanely killing large game.

I discussed it with NYSDEC and they said it was OK. There's a lot of controversy about .223 and deer hunting with evidence both ways. How do you feel about using a .44 Mag pistol at 125 yards off hand? One shot took the aorta off that doe and it went right down.

For me, I won't take a marginal shot with any firearm. If it isn't an excellent shot, the finger never goes to the trigger. I will continue to hunt deer with .223.

 

[Brin747]

Most assuredly a rifle problem, not an ammo problem. I'd bet the farm on it.

My advice : Investigate both rifles thoroughly because you will likely not be shooting much brass cased ammo from those guns unless you get some of the corrosive brass combloc surplus.

That seems unlikely to me. I have since gone through about 500 rounds of Golden Tiger without a hiccup.

 

[drgrant]

In fairness, that looks like about 4MOA in the pics.

There are probably more urban legends surrounding Wolf ammo that almost anything else. Everyone's "heard" something, or "knew a guy who..." but very few people who have shot a lot of it have too much bad to say about it.

I've lost track of the number of people I've seen using Wolf .223 in their guns that had some kind of jam or misfeed or whatever.

Sure, it might be the gun, but usually whenever I see a jamming AR, wolf is somehow involved at least 50% of the time.

It's not just Wolf, either.. there is also junk like Rem UMC .223 that is pretty much crap, too, as well as Ultramax. There is a lot of garbage out there.

-Mike

 

[drgrant]

OK so would the "NO" wolf shooters put the steels cased hornedy training ammo down the tube.

I would, because the ammo Hornady makes isn't s**t. It's not the steel case so much as it is the crappy loading and powder they use. Hell, Hornady TAP uses a steel case, at least in the "civilian" FPD loads that are out there.

-Mike

 

[ScottS]

Hell, Hornady TAP uses a steel case, at least in the "civilian" FPD loads that are out there.

-Mike

No shit? I did not know that. I learn something here every day.

 

[drgrant]

No shit? I did not know that. I learn something here every day.

Yeah, the TAP FPD 75 gr stuff I have is some kind of steel case with some kind of coating on it, the cartridges are like "brown" in color, almost.

-Mike

 

[PatMcD]

I discussed it with NYSDEC and they said it was OK. There's a lot of controversy about .223 and deer hunting with evidence both ways. How do you feel about using a .44 Mag pistol at 125 yards off hand? One shot took the aorta off that doe and it went right down.

For me, I won't take a marginal shot with any firearm. If it isn't an excellent shot, the finger never goes to the trigger. I will continue to hunt deer with .223.

I meant the actual bullet in that load is not meant for game. Hollow point boat tail bullets behave like FMJ bullets in that they do not expand. I don't care what caliber they are fired in. If I heard you were shooting deer with 168 gr HPBT out of a .308, I would have said the same thing: that's not a good bullet for large game.
The .223 with proper bullets can and does take a lot of deer every year.

 

[flintoid]

I laugh at all the internet engineers out there. "Steel casing hurts my extractor."

No.

Friction does, dumbass. If you want to preserve your replacable extractor, stop shooting your rifle. Brass will do it, too. And the soft steel (or craptastic steel) in a cartridge case isn't going to be too much more of an abrassive than brass...

 

[flintoid]

Yeah, the TAP FPD 75 gr stuff I have is some kind of steel case with some kind of coating on it, the cartridges are like "brown" in color, almost.

-Mike

that laquer sure does stink when it burns and gets hot. I think that's what it's called, anyways. Makes for a thorough cleaning afterwards.

 

[cekim]

I laugh at all the internet engineers out there. "Steel casing hurts my extractor."

No.

Friction does, dumbass. If you want to preserve your replacable extractor, stop shooting your rifle. Brass will do it, too. And the soft steel (or craptastic steel) in a cartridge case isn't going to be too much more of an abrassive than brass...

Not only that, with each case of silver bear, I can buy 10 new extractors with the money saved...

Not that I need to...

 

[Gammon]

My beef with Wolf 223 isn't the steel case, but rather the steel cased BULLET. After finding that a wolf bullet was attracted to a magnet I cut it in half expecting to find a steel penetrator. I found that the lead bullet was encased in a steel jacket coated with an extremely thin layer of copper plating. There is no way I am going to risk an expensive barrel with these bullets.
PS For practice within 100 yds I use a dedicated 22 LR upper. This has dramatically reduced my ammo costs.

 

[drgrant]

that laquer sure does stink when it burns and gets hot. I think that's what it's called, anyways. Makes for a thorough cleaning afterwards.

I never noticed it with TAP. Then again most of the times I've tested it was with the gun cold, and never fired more than 20-30 rounds of it at a time, due to the cost.

-Mike

 

[vellnueve]

I found that the lead bullet was encased in a steel jacket coated with an extremely thin layer of copper plating. There is no way I am going to risk an expensive barrel with these bullets.

Even if there's some iron or steel in the jacket:

1) The copper will prevent direct steel on steel cotnact
2) The soft steel will not appreciably wear the hard steel barrel any more than copper
3) For the price of one case of XM193 versus one case of Wolf or Silver bear, I can buy a new barrel with the difference.

 

[fubar]

How much is a thousand rounds of Wolf nowadays anyway ? I gave up when it doubled in price from about 3 bucks to near 7 per 20 in local retail.

 

[cekim]

How much is a thousand rounds of Wolf nowadays anyway ? I gave up when it doubled in price from about 3 bucks to near 7 per 20 in local retail.

Wolf/Silver Bear/Brown Bear is about 270-300 per 1000 depending on which and where you get it...

 

[RFWAVELENGTH]

It's the laquer coating on the steel cases that doesn't thrill me. I can see that gumming up the chamber.
No, I've never shot any Wolf center-fire ammo in any of my guns. From the looks of the photos from the original poster, I don't see me having much fun with 6+ MOA ammo.

I have fired Wolf .308 and it gave good performance in my Ruger. Groups were under 2" at 100 yards. I don't know what kind of smokeless powder the Russians use, but it gives off a rotten-egg type stench when fired. It is dirtier than some of the NATO milsurp 7.62x51 that I have fired, but it cleans up well with Hoppes 9. The laquer coating on the cases was not a problem for my Ruger.

 

[NYMarksman]

It's boxer primed too! It's reloadable but it'd probably be hard on equipment.

Have you compared it against say federal or remington UMC cheapo ammo to see the accuracy difference between the two?

Although I can't speak for radioman
I just fired off 75 rounds of 55 gr FMJ Remington UMC this past weekend from my AR (Stag 5.56 lower, PK firearmsd upper with 18 inch 1:8 twist Stainless fluted Sabre Defence barreled upper with YHM Diamond pattern free floating handguard and Weaver Classic V24 6-24x42 scope mounted on a Burris P.E.P.R. mount). 100 Yard range.

 

[cekim]

I have fired Wolf .308 and it gave good performance in my Ruger. Groups were under 2" at 100 yards. I don't know what kind of smokeless powder the Russians use, but it gives off a rotten-egg type stench when fired. It is dirtier than some of the NATO milsurp 7.62x51 that I have fired, but it cleans up well with Hoppes 9. The laquer coating on the cases was not a problem for my Ruger.

They also have a polymer coating option and again the silverbear which is a zinc plate on the steel.

At this point, given the lack of cost differential, polymer or zinc with non-corrosive is a no-brainer compared to lacquer/corrosive primer.

 

[Finalygotabeltfed]

I've never heard of anybody trying to reload it. I'm going to guess steel has more of a "memory" than brass, which might preclude it from bein re-sized?

I've successfully reloaded Wolf .223 steel cases, as well as Sellior&Bellot .223 steel cases and they trim and work in the press and function fine. I don't do it as a regular thing, but it is possible and good to know it can be done in a pinch.

Wolf .45 reloads just like brass and blindfolded, you'd not be able to tell the difference when running them through the press.

 

[cavalri]

I'm almost done with my second case of Wolf since I finished my LMT build last summer. The first 1k was the laquer cased Military Classic 55grn. Not a single FTF/FTE that I can recall. It didn't gum up my chamber like so many people claim even after multiple magazines fired and pretty hot barrels. It managed to turn my bolt face red due to the primer sealer, however. It cleaned up with a bit of Hoppe's and some elbow grease.

The second case is the Wolf black box, 62grn. Shoots great, and seems to hold tighter groupings than the MC stuff although I'd like to attribute that to the bullet weight and twist rates. No FTF/FTE in this batch either so far.

How much does a new extractor cost, $15? How much money will I save in purchasing steel cased ammo over the 10k rounds that it may or may not take me to break an extractor? I save more than that per case.

 

[Maj. Boom Boom]

come on guys it says "performance ammunition" right on the box

 

[kerismo]

In my AR, I will only use custom cartridges, made from the finest gilded brass.

This brass is imported from the south of madagasgar,brought to me on the backs of baby sea turtles.

Projectiles of the precise atomic mass and electromagnetically inspected by deaf mutes in russian orphan domiciles.

Finally the propellant must be of such strict pureness it is blown into the cases directly out of the rear end of angels.

Then, and only then! will I allow the brand new in the box, untouched by human hands, made in mosambique by local orangutangs with work permits, ammunition to grace my chamber.

 

[MAC2187]

For what it is worth Bushmaster test fires there AR's with Wolf. I ask them about wolf a few years back.

The new Wolf ammunition with the gray polymer coating can be used in our chrome lined barrels. We often use it to test fire with.
Thank you,
Jim Eden, Tech Support
1-800-883-6229








--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Tuesday, March 21, 2006 10:27 AM
To: [email protected]

 

[ScottS]

In my AR, I will only use custom cartridges, made from the finest gilded brass.

This brass is imported from the south of madagasgar,brought to me on the backs of baby sea turtles.

Projectiles of the precise atomic mass and electromagnetically inspected by deaf mutes in russian orphan domiciles.

Finally the propellant must be of such strict pureness it is blown into the cases directly out of the rear end of angels.

Then, and only then! will I allow the brand new in the box, untouched by human hands, made in mosambique by local orangutangs with work permits, ammunition to grace my chamber.

This may well be the funniest thing I've read in a while.