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My Glock frame broke!

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Dec 1, 2005
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Today, while at the range, my Glock 27 frame broke. After about 200 rounds I place a mag in the handgun...racked the slide...and as the slide sprung forward it came off. The slide lock was gone. I could not find it anywhere. Here are some pics of my war damaged friend:

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Called Glock. Will send it to them tomorrow. The tech guy I spoke with was not sure if they could send me a replacement. It is covered under warrantee. But alas, they may give me a hard time because of Mass laws...
 
massnee said:
Called Glock. Will send it to them tomorrow. The tech guy I spoke with was not sure if they could send me a replacement. It is covered under warrantee. But alas, they may give me a hard time because of Mass laws...

To avoid any MA related problem, what they have done in the past is send for a frame from Austria with the same serial number as the damaged one. They send the old back and get a new. Takes quite a while IIRC, but it works. Also, a Frame is not a firearm under MA law and only requires the yellow form and NICS for transfer.

Regards
 
I believe that the frame is the firearm. I have a replacement frame for my glock, so that mine was registered in NY, they took the number off the frame as opposed to the different serial number on the slide and barrel. I was told that according to federal law the frame is the gun, and barrel and slide changes do not effect the gun. Kind of the same way that the only part of an AR-15 that requires the dealer is the lower, in my understanding. I am not sure on this, but would like to know myself.
 
The frame is considered the Reciever of the firearm and is defined as the the firearm. On different firearms this can be a different part.
A good example is on the AR-15 the lower reciever is the controlled part, and on the FAL its the upper. Where pistol are concerned the Frame is usually all that is mentioned. Not the slide or barrel with the revolvers it is also the frame.

JRobinson
 
Just out of curiosity- can you give us some history of the gun? Year made, approx rounds, did you use +P or +P+?

Thanks- I'm considering the G27.
 
The Glock 27 is a great handgun. I am eager to get another. I have only owned the 27 for a little over 2 months. It was in very good condition (possibly not fired). I put over 2000 rounds through it. Carry ammo was Winchester Ranger (shot about 150 rounds). Range ammo was Winchester White Box.

The gun was made in March of 1996.
 
I am very worried that Glock will leave me high and dry concerning this issue. The tech support guy was like "no problem...we'll take care of you". However, that was until he learned that I was from Massachusetts. His disposition then changed and he was very unsure as to if Glock could help me. I mentioned to him that Glock, in the past, would just give a new frame. He answered that apparently they have changed their policy. I was hoping that from this I would get a generation 3 frame. But now I am fearful. I just purchased this handgun for $750.00.
 
Glock Frame

First off, neither MA nor Federal law prohibits Glock from replacing your frame on a direct to consumer basis. Glock's perception of MA law, or desire not to offend the AG while acting perfectly legally could be an obstacle.

Federal law allows manufacutrers to send back a replacement of the same model directly to the customer without use of an FFL on either end of the transaction when this is done for the purpose of replacing a broken firearm. Yes, really. The MA "chapter 180" and AG's regulations apply only to holders of a MA license to sell firearms, so Glock is not bound by them.

From what I can tell in the photos, your G27 is an older model made before the internal steel insert extended to the poriton of the frame which 21 the guide ring on the slide (the part the guiderod slides through) contacts while in full recoil. The only "user difference" this upgrade provides is the ability to install a Glock .357sig bbl in a 40 S&W Glock with the blessing of the factory.

Glock is now manufacturing frames "in country", however, I do not know if they are moulding all models. In some cases, they have added a prefix "1" before a serial number when replacing a frame. Frames made separately for replacement, but not matched to a particular gun, bear a prefix with the single letter "G".
 
TonyD said:
I'm pretty sure the frame IS the firearm. It is everywhere else.

Let us know how this turns out and the cause of the failure.
Not everywhere. Some countries in Europe and Africa consider the barrel to be the regulated part.

Also, he said "under MA law". The frame must be treated as a firearms under federal law, but not under MA law. Even so, the state "encourages" dealer to voluntarily treat frames as firearms, and has not provided a written ruling to the "comfort level" most dealers would require to handle a frame without an LTC and an FA10.
 
Rob is correct. The Commonwealth of MA does not legally consider the frame to be the firearm, unlike federal and most other state's laws. It is true.
 
What a coincidence. I just got back from the range and heard the same thing, that a frame is not a firearm in MA. The guys were saying I could buy any frame to build a 1911 and but once built it would need to be registered. Is this true?
 
As a few others stated.

MGL requires that it be COMPLETE and SHOOTABLE to be a "gun" by MGL definition! Thus, a frame is NOT a gun/controlled item by MGL.

Of course the frame IS the gun/controlled item under Fed Law.

By MGL/Fed Law, Glock can legally replace the frame or gun with the same model without any FFL involvement, no FA-10, no violation of AG Regs!

I get a definite opinion that Glock had a huge chunk of flesh and cash bitten out of their rear end, and they are totally paranoid about replacing frames here. It's an "irrational fear of THE MAN" . . . and our state gov't likes it that way.

You can be sure that Glock will take care of you in some fashion. Exactly how is unknown by us right now. On another forum, a MA guy ended up with a different model gun shipped to him because it was built on a "MA compliant frame" (whatever the hell that is) . . . that's what he posted!
 
ajw45 said:
What a coincidence. I just got back from the range and heard the same thing, that a frame is not a firearm in MA. The guys were saying I could buy any frame to build a 1911 and but once built it would need to be registered. Is this true?

Yes it is true that you can buy a frame and build your own/have a gunsmith do it for you. Under MGLs, you would not need to do an FA-10, and that was being said by CHSB, GCAB, and EOPS . . . until Flynn took over and put "his interpretation" on it. He had been having his folks tell everyone that they MUST file an FA-10! Nothing in the law has changed, but the tin gods can make their own "law" just by rattling their fists and saying so in this state . . . and everyone will bow down to them and pray . . . 5 times each day!

Now that Flynn is going/gone, perhaps the next person in office will tell you that a magazine is a gun and require us to file an FA-10 on each one we buy/bring into the state as well? [roll] [evil]
 
ajw45 said:
What a coincidence. I just got back from the range and heard the same thing, that a frame is not a firearm in MA. The guys were saying I could buy any frame to build a 1911 and but once built it would need to be registered. Is this true?

This is 100% correct. You will need to go through an FFL to purchase the frame, since the feds consider the frame to be the firearm. It may take you a little time to find an FFL willing to get a frame for you, because many are fearful about doing this even though it is legal.
 
I believe Glock should be able to replace the frame, with the same serial #. In the pats I have done this with other makers. If they can. You will be OK in Mass since you are just repairing a gun which is allready registered in Mass. At the SHOT show there was a maker of all metal Glock frames which looked really good. They came in carbon, aluminum and soon titanium. I think the firm was Raceframes. Greg
 
I had my glock frame replaced, they can not replace it with one of the same serial number. They will replace it with a frame of serial number Gxxxxx, and will give a letter so show anybody that needs to know that the frame that bears the original SN has been destroyed, and replaced by GXXXXX under warranty work. or something to that effect. they were extremely helpful with mine and I had it back in my possession in about a week and a half.
 
Does this mean I could technically have a dealer sell me a 1911 frame which I could then build into a custom 1911 and simply register via FA-10 when it is complete?
 
ajw45 said:
Does this mean I could technically have a dealer sell me a 1911 frame which I could then build into a custom 1911 and simply register via FA-10 when it is complete?

Yes, except MGLs does NOT require an FA-10 when complete. [twisted]

This is true, regardless of what some politician masquerading as Sec. of Public Safety says!
 
Sweet! Anyone know an FFL that will transfer a frame for me? Anyone want to buy my S&W 1911Sc? I have only 2 1911 frames left from when I moved into Mass and I've been stashing them like gold trying to figure out the best way to build them up but if I can get more.....

Just to verify, the FFL has to do a nics and log it, but do they report the sale to Mass? If the FFL doesn't do an FA-10 cause it isn't a firearm, and I don't have to do one when after I complete building the frame.... Mass just simply doesn't know?
 
If this is true, Mass residents could really buy any frame correct? By this logic, if I were to buy a 3rd gen glock (or any gun) out of state, have the upper shipped directly to me and the frame to an FFL.... [roll] This is making my head hurt....
 
Mod Hat On!

We do NOT post the names of FFLs who will do this NOR do we post the names of companies that will ship to MA on these forums.

"The walls have ears" and the AG will threaten and shut down any few resources we have left if he catches wind of these loopholes.

Mod Hat Off.

Meanwhile, do some Searching on these forums and you'll see this info discussed before a number of times.
 
I just got off the phone with Chris, Glock Tech Supt. He told me that they would have had to scrounge around for a Gen 2 frame either used or refurb, update it and ship it to you. His department is under the impression that this is "required by law" as told to them by the AG. He told me that "there can't be any Gen 3 frames in MA" . . . that's when I informed him that someone could own a new Gen 3, move in from AZ and keep it or sell it FTF perfectly legally! He wasn't aware of this. I also told him that MGLs define a firearm as a complete, shootable gun, NOT a frame. And even under the Fed AWB, broken frames could be replaced as long as no additional ones were created.

I referred him to Chief Ron Glidden for citations, etc. He said he'll pass it up to management to contact Ron. Let's hope for a better outcome, at least in the long run.

My plans to acquire a G23 are now "on hold" until this gets resolved in a positive way!
 
Update

To restate LenS's post, Glock Inc. policy is to not replace damaged frames with new Generation 3 frames for Massachusetts customers. This means that anyone seeking warrantee fulfillment on sub-compact Glocks (or other hard to find models) is in a difficult situation.

I am currently working with GOAL to correct Glock Inc's policy. I have spoken with Glock personnel in Smyrna who are very interested in resolving this issue. I will keep you all updated on our progress.
 
Glock

I spoke with Jon Green (Goal president) last night, and suggested that the best approach is for to present Glock legal with a detailed analysis as to exactly why frame replacement is legal, a covering the three perceived obstacles: Federal law, state law, ag regs. I have offered to create the first draft if GOAL will have an attorney who happens to be on their board (you know who you are - *) tweak it for any needed correction, draft it on law firm letterhead, make an attorney to attorney presentation, and have the MA lawyer available if the Glock legal staff has any questions.

As with any negotiation with someone you are asking to change their policies, the best approach is to have a well prepared, accurate and professional first presentation. Phone calls and attempted telephone negotiations by well meaning amateurs will not help. An accurate and detailed case from a member of the MA bar might.

Glock is a great company, but does not understand the nuances of MA law. For example, their "recall letter" on guns sold which the AG later retrobanned states "these must be returned" rather than "we have been pressured to recall them, but you committed no offense in purchasing them, and are under no legal obligation to return them".

* Thanks for showing up at the AFS shoot.
 
Thanks Rob.

What's this about Jon being GOAL President?

I didn't think that a Staffer could be GOAL President . . . and I thought that Jack Durkin was "president for life". [wink]
 
LenS said:
Thanks Rob.

What's this about Jon being GOAL President?

I didn't think that a Staffer could be GOAL President . . . and I thought that Jack Durkin was "president for life". [wink]

I just caught that too.
 
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