Hi I’m new here I’ve hunted in mass with bow and black powder for years , so I’ve never really cared about an fid card and have talked to environmental and they said it was ok for me to hunt with the black powder smoothie I own. I know you can’t purchase the ammunition but why? where is it cited when I looked up legislation chapter 140 129c and read paragraph p it’s says so called black powder shot guns rifles and ammunition were exempt and the definition of ammunition is defined I believe in section 121 so there is no argument that it is exempt and on section 129c if you go down a ways says persons exempt in paragraph p and others need to only positively identify themselves to purchase ammunition in mass so what gives? I only ask because when I tried to use a gun range someone told me I can’t have the ammunition but could have the gun but when I put the ammunition together it’s a firearm but my take on it is the legislation clearly exempts the black powder rifle and shotgun and it’s ammunition and ammunition is clearly defined idk all input welcome sorry in advance for spelling and punctuation thanks.
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Muzzleloader black powder no fid
- Thread starter Sisson
- Start date
one-eyed Jack
Manufacturer
Have to make popcorn. Be right back. Jack.
Thankyou so from my understanding of that I’m not required to have an fid to shoot own or possess my Thompson center .56 cal sb and I should be able to purchase the ammunition without fid am I correct?so when I’m denied there denying my right?
one-eyed Jack
Manufacturer
Maybe study the laws. Jack.
I have no need or want to own a cartridge gun I have plenty of fun with black powder I just don’t understand if the legislation says you can why is it so taboo and why are you looked at as a criminal because others are ignorant to the law why can’t I purchase my ammunition here when it’s clearly in the legislation all’s I hear is gray area how?
arsco
NES Member
butter and salt or a sprinkle of Parmesan?
one-eyed Jack
Manufacturer
No. Do your own studies of the laws. Jack.
Gun is fine, the problem is ammunition or any ammunition component including black powder.
Make your life easy and apply for a FID card and CYA, it isn't worth the legal fees if some cop or nature cop decides to cuff and stuff you for the courts to sort out.
Make your life easy and apply for a FID card and CYA, it isn't worth the legal fees if some cop or nature cop decides to cuff and stuff you for the courts to sort out.
D
Deleted member 67409
No.
The vast, vast majority of states don't require any licensing to buy black powder. Most states' residents can order black powder online and have it shipped right to their homes. Let's not start making stuff up like "crazies will blow buildings up with black powder" to justify Mass's licensing system.
Dude I went to high school and was friends with a guy who did just this! Its not urban myth. He only didn't end up in prison because he was under 18 and a good student with no record. He had probation and community service but was convicted of detonation of an infernal device (pipe bombs). He was using them as big noisemakers but could have easily killed someone with them.
And we're not most states. I never said anything about other states or buildings FFS. The marathon bombers also didn't help matters like this (even though they were using fireworks innards)
How many people have been killed by Black Powder bombs in the U.S in the past 50 years?
It's not an issue, moving on ...
OP, as far as I remember, you can buy the musket balls, but you cant buy the BP in MA without a license or FID. You will have to buy the BP somewhere else. Also, you will need a license for the musket caps, unless you shoot a flintlock.
Note: I am not a lawyer. If you care so much either get an FID or pay a lawyer to explain things to you.
If you have been hunting for years, how have you been getting the components? Why is it an issue now?
a lot of people make their own BP, there are actually vids on utube about it. Flintlock for ignition and you are all set. You don't need a license to buy "80%" BP components.
Welcome to Massachusetts. Basically you can't do shit in this state without an LTC/FID, or very little. Either get one, or keep spinning in circles. Or go out of state and buy what you
need.
So far you have made zero positive contributions to the conversation bro... IDK as that being an ass hole helps people who are newer to firearm laws in MA. We should be helping such people and welcoming them to the NEX community. Not brushing them off with an attitude... Bad form bro....
OP.
There are plenty of web sites that will ship ML supplies right to your door. In fact, 100% of my ML stuff has come from online and that includes the ML itself! Shipped right to my door... Blackhorn 209, primers, powerbelts, saboted bullets, etc... No problems and no questions... Such muzzleloading supply sites are not hard to find. So getting stuff should not be an issue.
That said - you're not allowed to possess ammunition COMPOINETS in MA absent a license. So power, bullets, etc.... ML or smokeless making no difference.... are under that umbrella. Even a spent .22 cal cartridge case is covered under this umbrella... It is what it is and in MA you have to live with it. So stop arguing about why it is, just acknowledge that it is what it is, and do what you need to do (get a license).
If you do not want to accept HOW THE LAW IS APPLIED BY THE AG, then be prepared to reap the consequences of your action... Get your FID or LTC card... If you hunt, you will probably have an encounter with EPO at some point.
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Federal Law says a flintlock is not a gun.
Mass law says a flintlock is a gun, but is exempt from laws regarding possession.
Mass law says Ammunition is cartridges or cartridge cases, primers (igniter), bullets or propellant powder designed for use in any gun.
Federal law defines ammunition pretty much the same way.
So under Federal Law, since black powder is not designed for use in any gun (anything using black powder is not a gun), black powder is not ammunition.
Under Mass law, since a flintlock is a gun, then black powder is propellant powder designed for use in a gun, therefore black powder IS ammunition.
Mass General Law, Chapter 269, section 10(h) prohibits possession of ammunition without an FID.
mothybee
NES Member
If law or fish enforcement ever bother you about it just look them square in the eye and say,"I pay your salary with my taxes" They'll feel shamed, hang their heads and walk away.....................p.s. I really haven't tried this myself but would appreciate hearing how it works.
HorizontalHunter
NES Member
Section 121: Firearms sales; definitions; antique firearms; application of law; exceptions
Section 121. As used in sections 122 to 131Y, inclusive, the following words shall, unless the context clearly requires otherwise, have the following meanings:—
''Ammunition'', cartridges or cartridge cases, primers (igniter), bullets or propellant powder designed for use in any firearm, rifle or shotgun. The term ''ammunition'' shall also mean tear gas cartridges.
Section 129C. No person, other than a licensed dealer or one who has been issued a license to carry a pistol or revolver or an exempt person as hereinafter described, shall own or possess any firearm, rifle, shotgun or ammunition unless he has been issued a firearm identification card by the licensing authority pursuant to the provisions of section one hundred and twenty-nine B.
The provisions of this section shall not apply to the following exempted persons and uses:
(p) Carrying or possession by residents or nonresidents of so-called black powder rifles, shotguns, and ammunition therefor as described in such paragraphs (A) and (B) of the third paragraph of section 121, and the carrying or possession of conventional rifles, shotguns, and ammunition therefor by nonresidents who meet the requirements for such carrying or possession in the state in which they reside.
malegislature.gov
Section 121. As used in sections 122 to 131Y, inclusive, the following words shall, unless the context clearly requires otherwise, have the following meanings:—
''Ammunition'', cartridges or cartridge cases, primers (igniter), bullets or propellant powder designed for use in any firearm, rifle or shotgun. The term ''ammunition'' shall also mean tear gas cartridges.
Section 129C. No person, other than a licensed dealer or one who has been issued a license to carry a pistol or revolver or an exempt person as hereinafter described, shall own or possess any firearm, rifle, shotgun or ammunition unless he has been issued a firearm identification card by the licensing authority pursuant to the provisions of section one hundred and twenty-nine B.
The provisions of this section shall not apply to the following exempted persons and uses:
(p) Carrying or possession by residents or nonresidents of so-called black powder rifles, shotguns, and ammunition therefor as described in such paragraphs (A) and (B) of the third paragraph of section 121, and the carrying or possession of conventional rifles, shotguns, and ammunition therefor by nonresidents who meet the requirements for such carrying or possession in the state in which they reside.
General Law - Part I, Title XX, Chapter 140, Section 129C
malegislature.gov
Not true. That section defines the punishment for failure of complying with Ch. 140 § 129C and purposely leaving firearm, rifle, shotgun or ammunition unattended with the intent to transfer to someone not licensed.
According to MA MGL Ch. 140 § 129C(p) black powder ammunition is exempt from Ch. 140 § 129C. So it seems to me like its just a case of dealers covering their asses unless there is another section we're missing.
Pretty much all right here cut and dry to me it is exempt from fid gun and ammo also says one can purchase with I.d. Is there something I’m missing that says different how come most are using bits n pieces to say no when it’s a whole section, explanation of how it’s exempt black powder gun and it’s ammunition, ammunition is defined and says it’s exempt chapter 140 section 129c states so and states your supposed to be able to purchase black powder ammunition with identification
Section 10 4 says still exempt from it
Attachments
its an issue because it’s a right it’s in the legislation shouldn’t be forced to do something you don’t need to do because it’s in plain English and people just look at a paragraph and not read further I’m an American I believe in freedom the legislation supports that it’s exempt in a whole and everyone wants to section the legislation and leave out the parts that says so called black powder guns are exempt and there ammunition and ammunition is defined clearly and is also exempt idk it’s the law if you read the whole thing your not in violation of anything and legally should be able to purchase
