We'll have to agree to disagree.
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Moon Island
- Thread starter kimmie1911
- Start date
We'll have to agree to disagree.
Rivers of Blood
Banned
If the BPD wanted to make the test real hard, they would have us shoot some S&W .500s![[smile]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/001.gif "Smile [smile]")
. The test is BS, why does Mumbles not see that the other 350 cities and towns in our state don't have this requirement and they are far safer then Boston? He loves control and thinks us law abiding folk are the cause for lil Tyrone becoming a gang member.
The test works at keeping Boston residents from geting their LTCs, I know a few people that would get the license if it wasn't for that. I wonder if Menino sleeps good at night knowing how hard he is making it for old ladies to defend themselves.
. The test is BS, why does Mumbles not see that the other 350 cities and towns in our state don't have this requirement and they are far safer then Boston? He loves control and thinks us law abiding folk are the cause for lil Tyrone becoming a gang member.The test works at keeping Boston residents from geting their LTCs, I know a few people that would get the license if it wasn't for that. I wonder if Menino sleeps good at night knowing how hard he is making it for old ladies to defend themselves.
"I wonder if Menino sleeps good at night knowing how hard he is making it for old ladies to defend themselves."
Don't waste another thought on a sleeping Menino. He has 24 hour police protection parked outside his home. Assuming the officer isn't sleeping and has passed the BPD range requirements, and Mrs. Menino isn't tossing and turning fighting off a hot flash, the Mayor is sleeping in peace.
His neighbors however, have recently realized that Readville isn't immune from home invasions and burglaries.
Best regards.
Don't waste another thought on a sleeping Menino. He has 24 hour police protection parked outside his home. Assuming the officer isn't sleeping and has passed the BPD range requirements, and Mrs. Menino isn't tossing and turning fighting off a hot flash, the Mayor is sleeping in peace.
His neighbors however, have recently realized that Readville isn't immune from home invasions and burglaries.
Best regards.
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Karen is a highly competent attorney, but her approach was limited in scope since it was
(a) Brought in state court, not federal (MacNutt v. Police Commissioner of Boston, 1991)
(b) It was pre-Heller
(c) The case concentrates on suitability and abuse of discretion, not discrimination based on disability
(d) It did not raise an ADA (Americans with Disabilities Act) claim
(b) It was pre-Heller
(c) The case concentrates on suitability and abuse of discretion, not discrimination based on disability
(d) It did not raise an ADA (Americans with Disabilities Act) claim
It is not certain that a federal action, based on the Americans with Disabilities Act, would suffer the same fate - as imposition of a test one could not pass due to a physical disability as a requirement to become licensed to exercise a constitutional right presents an interesting constitutional issue.
State court handling of firearms licensing issue, with rare exception, consists of the court deciding to side with the police chief over the ordinary citizen, and shoehorning logic to generate that foregone conclusion.
Such utter BS. The 2nd is a God given right guaranteed by The Constitution.
It shouldn't be licensed, you shouldn't have to suffer anything like this to have the ability to defend yourself against punks that are armed because they don't care about the laws (criminals).
I'll bet that revolver came from a gang banger to begin with.
![[hmmm]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/009.gif "Hmm [hmmm]")
It shouldn't be licensed, you shouldn't have to suffer anything like this to have the ability to defend yourself against punks that are armed because they don't care about the laws (criminals).
I'll bet that revolver came from a gang banger to begin with.
I don't think that Mumbles is as stupid as he looks/acts. His objective is to keep the minions subservient to the governing class. I don't think that he really believes that the test and all the other BS actually improves safety in the community in any way, shape or manner.
The fact is it's Wrong.
He should get an academy award for keeping in character all these years then...
There is clearly an organization behind him. He just isn't all that bright...
There it is.
The Boston range test pre-dates the Menino administration by a long margin. That they still have this requirement is probably as much about institutional inertia as anything else. Regardless about how one feels about this requirement, it's a poor reason NOT to get a license in Boston.
While suitability is still alive an kicking it would be very hard and probably pointless to challenge the requirement. The one area where one might be able to make a case is with an ADA complaint by someone who was actually unable to use the BPD revolvers but was able to demonstrate proficiency with other types of handguns. Even then, I'm not convinced they wouldn't somehow make an exception. It's not an attractive fight for the city. They could easily make an accommodation AND still keep the test.
Ezell also complicates things for someone wanting to challenge a range membership or proficiency standard requirement. After the 7th circuit rule in our favor that gaining and maintaining proficiency was core to the 2A right we don't really want to swim in the other direction.
I think the Boston
While suitability is still alive an kicking it would be very hard and probably pointless to challenge the requirement. The one area where one might be able to make a case is with an ADA complaint by someone who was actually unable to use the BPD revolvers but was able to demonstrate proficiency with other types of handguns. Even then, I'm not convinced they wouldn't somehow make an exception. It's not an attractive fight for the city. They could easily make an accommodation AND still keep the test.
Ezell also complicates things for someone wanting to challenge a range membership or proficiency standard requirement. After the 7th circuit rule in our favor that gaining and maintaining proficiency was core to the 2A right we don't really want to swim in the other direction.
I think the Boston
Yup, Karen tried, failed and them passed "the damned test" (her words not mine) anyway.
Reading between the "line" there, I think claiming that only able bodied men of militia age are entitled to 2A protection would go over like a sack of bricks at this point. It would actually be a little entertaining to watch Justice Breyer try to make that argument.
![[laugh]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/012.gif "Laugh [laugh]")
kimmie1911
NES Member
This has been an awesome thread! Seriously. The collective coming together of NES members without the pettiness 'sometimes' seen has been heartening. It's not just this Moon Island issue. It's the fact that anything can become a requirement at the 'whim' of some official in some office somewhere. The rules and laws just don't apply here. The Moon Island issue happens to affect just Boston and Brookline residents but who's to say some other town may decide it's a good thing and adopt it. Should be easy since no one is causing an uproar in Boston. Or some other equally idiotic, illegal and unconstitutional 'regulation'. All it takes is a change in police chiefs. It's just a backdoor, underhanded way of chipping away at our rights. We just need to keep fighting the good fight and educating people to all the ways they are trying to undermine us and unite as supporters of the 2nd amendment for every town. You can't say, well, they don't do that in 'my town' so I don't care, or the test is easy because I'm strong and have good eyesight. Not to be morbid, but if you don't die first, you WILL get old. And get poor eyesight and arthritis and lose muscle strength. Or the new guy in charge will change the rules in your town and your green town will suddenly become red. In the big scheme of things, it does or will affect you some how, some way.
So, you believe that if Commissioner Davis went to Menino and said "these policies are ridiculous, they waste our time, they waste their time and they accomplish nothing," that Mumbles would fight him on it?
There is also the matter that the "Licensing Authority" is in charge of the requirements to obtain suitability. The buck stopped...
There are plenty of Chiefs and towns acting in good faith, trying to satisfy the state/town/city requirements without trampling on the Constitution any more than those requirements already do... Boston is NOT one of them.
Stop apologizing for them and let them do it.
No, I don't "smell the cop hate!"
Posts from people who actually had to go to Moon Island have had positive comments about the police interaction.
I have experience with the "revolvers" at Moon Island and know some of them are not well maintained.
As for the "stupid licensing regulations imposed by the City;" I agree, they are.
Best regards.
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We had a really nice lady come into the club a week or so ago who had recently purchased a Sig .380 (Colt Mustang clone. Not the gun I would have sold her, but that's beside the point.) Her arthritis was so bad that she had to use two fingers on the trigger and even then she had a hard time holding black long enough before the pain became unbearable for her. Her maximum accurate distance was no more than 20 feet or so (and even those were some pretty wide groups.)
I have no doubt that she would never be able to pass the Moon Island test. It's a good thing she doesn't live in Boston, where she would be completely helpless thanks to the BPD CoP.
And consider that in order to keep her guns, she'll be required to retest on a January morning six years later, when her disease will inevitably be worse. Why would she even bother now?
She will not be in the denominator of the "see the test is soooo easy" pass ratio because she was disenfranchised from even trying.
Progressive politics - making those less fortunate completely powerless by design... Winning! [sad2]
kimmie1911
NES Member
Seriously????????? Are we reading the same thread??????? I think everyone here is agreeing that this particular regulation is discriminatory. I blame the folks that made these rules and allow them to continue. And they're not all LEO's. But since the LEO's are the ones that enforce the regulations, they become the bad guys by association. I personally, don't hate on any group as a whole. I try to judge people as individuals. And I don't think I ever implied in my posts that this was any one groups fault. My 'hate' on the revolvers are because I have to take this test to begin with. And this 'test' shouldn't exist. The test is unfair to many. I found the LEO's at Moon Island to be an awesome group of guys just like all my other LEO friends.
Seriously??????
All of that having been said, couldn't an argument be waged that the relative inaccessability of the testing regimen etc is an
infringement? Even if we run with the BS that "testing is a reasonable restriction", it should be trivial to argue that making the
testing inaccessible is an infringement. Basically the way it stands now, anyone with a "working for a douchebag" job (and there are tons of them out there) that gets no vacation, has to get fired in order to take the moon island test.
Even if Boston was forced to allow testing the way Brookline does it (eg, you can use an NRA instructor) that would make the whole process suck about 1000 times less for Bostonians.
-Mike
Lol. Apparently when off-duty they hang out with most of the other members of NES......
Fair enough, I'd sure like to see more NES members at the state-house as well. Those NES members did not sign up to protect and serve their community by virtue of joining NES.
Doesn't change the fact that the buck stops with buck stops with the Boston PD on a great many of the specific details that make moon island ridiculous and they have the ear of any politicos they would need to bend to get rid of that policy all together. As such, if it exists, they want it to and the blame falls on their shoulders.
As they say, "Ignorance of the law is no excuse."
![[wink]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/002.gif "Wink [wink]")
I guess it should not be a surprise, but it is amazing how lost the lessons of history are here... Bureaucratic evil happens because people let it happen. They either look and do nothing or look away because it "doesn't really affect them personally."
Not good enough. Not for PD, not for any American.
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