Minor and CCW

[Boghog1]

Quick question can a minor get a pistol revolver permit in NH?

 

[Kevlar]

AFAIK, there is no minimum age codified in law, but the transfer of handguns to minors is controlled by RSA 159:12

 

[06LemansC6]

No

In order to obtain a pistol permit, you must be able to provide a license with the town as your primary address, be 18 years of age, and have a criminal record check free of felony convictions. The Police Department will obtain a criminal record check on the individual, and note any felony or violent crimes that may prevent the issuance of the permit. Domestic violence - related crimes may prevent the issuance of a permit.

 

[Kevlar]

No

Could you please provide a citation? I am unaware of a statutory minimum age for issuance.

 

[Kevin_NH]

No

I'm going to guess that's a quote from Brentwood, NH's website.

If your town is fabricating their own criteria for the P&R license, they're violating state law, and you can recover your costs if they deny your application, you sue, and you win.

 

[06LemansC6]

Could you please provide a citation? I am unaware of a statutory minimum age for issuance.

It wasn't from Brentwood, but it was a quoted from my town's website. While there is nothing stating a minimum age for a P&R permit there is a section in NH firearm laws that covers minors.

http://www.gencourt.state.nh.us/rsa/html/XII/159/159-12.htm

159:12 Sale to Minors. –
I. Any person who shall sell, barter, hire, lend or give to any minor any pistol or revolver shall be guilty of a misdemeanor.
II. This section shall not apply to:
(a) Fathers, mothers, grandparents, guardians, administrators or executors who give a revolver to their children or wards or to heirs to an estate.
(b) Individuals instructing minors in the safe use of firearms during a supervised firearms training program, provided the minor's parent or legal guardian has granted the minor permission to participate in such program.
(c) Licensed hunters accompanying a minor while lawfully taking wildlife.
(d) Individuals supervising minors using firearms during a lawful shooting event or activity.
Source. 1923, 118:7. PL 149:12. RL 179:12. RSA 159:12. 1973, 528:87, eff. Oct. 31, 1973 at 11:59 p.m. 2006, 73:2, eff. April 28, 2006.

There are very few exceptions involving minors and firearms and just about all of them involve supervision. I'm going to say issuing a P&R would contradict the fact that the above pretty much covers possession of firearms by a minor.

 

[06LemansC6]

If your town is fabricating their own criteria for the P&R license, they're violating state law, and you can recover your costs if they deny your application, you sue, and you win.

I'm well aware of the law you listed above. Good luck with THAT lawsuit.

I would be very surprised if you not only find an attorney to take the case, but win an argument against denial of a P&R for a minor child. You should know by now that it doesn't matter what the law says it only matters whether or not you can convince a judge (or in some cases a jury).

 

[Kevin_NH]

159:12 Sale to Minors. –
I. Any person who shall sell, barter, hire, lend or give to any minor any pistol or revolver shall be guilty of a misdemeanor.
II. This section shall not apply to:
(a) Fathers, mothers, grandparents, guardians, administrators or executors who give a revolver to their children or wards or to heirs to an estate.

That looks pretty clear to me. Kids can't purchase, but a mom can give a revolver to her 17-year-old daughter.

 

[06LemansC6]

Since you want to push this issue, I'll play....NH isn't a must issue state, it is still shall issue. It can be argued that a minor is not a suitable person to be licensed. I stand by my prior statement.....You'd be hard pressed to find a judge that won't allow a COP to have discretion when it comes to issuing a minor a P&R license.

159:6 License to Carry. –
I. The selectmen of a town or the mayor or chief of police of a city or some full-time police officer designated by them respectively, upon application of any resident of such town or city, or the director of state police, or some person designated by such director, upon application of a nonresident, shall issue a license to such applicant authorizing the applicant to carry a loaded pistol or revolver in this state for not less than 4 years from the date of issue, if it appears that the applicant has good reason to fear injury to the applicant's person or property or has any proper purpose, and that the applicant is a suitable person to be licensed. Hunting, target shooting, or self-defense shall be considered a proper purpose. The license shall be valid for all allowable purposes regardless of the purpose for which it was originally issued. The license shall be in duplicate and shall bear the name, address, description, and signature of the licensee. The original shall be delivered to the licensee and the duplicate shall be preserved by the people issuing the same for 4 years. When required, license renewal shall take place within the month of the fourth anniversary of the license holder's date of birth following the date of issuance. The license shall be issued within 14 days after application, and, if such application is denied, the reason for such denial shall be stated in writing, the original of which such writing shall be delivered to the applicant, and a copy kept in the office of the person to whom the application was made. The fee for licenses issued to residents of the state shall be $10, which fee shall be for the use of the law enforcement department of the town or city granting said licenses; the fee for licenses granted to out-of-state residents shall be $100, which fee shall be for the use of the state. The director of state police is hereby authorized and directed to prepare forms for the licenses required under this chapter and forms for the application for such licenses and to supply the same to officials of the cities and towns authorized to issue the licenses. No other forms shall be used by officials of cities and towns. The cost of the forms shall be paid out of the fees received from nonresident licenses.
II. No photograph or fingerprint shall be required or used as a basis to grant, deny, or renew a license to carry for a resident or nonresident, unless requested by the applicant.
Source. 1923, 118:6. PL 149:6. 1941, 172:1. RL 179:6. 1951, 151:3. RSA 159:6. 1959, 100:1. 1967, 220:4. 1977, 563:76. 1979, 355:1. 1993, 27:1; 203:1. 1994, 257:1; 257:2. 1996, 167:2, eff. Aug. 2, 1996. 2003, 90:1, eff. July 29, 2003. 2009, 144:194, eff. July 1, 2009.

 

[KMaurer]

OK, so if you're only say 14, and your local CLEO doesn't think you're a suitable person, then you have to carry openly. I'll have to tell my granddaughter that if her local chief feels that way.

Ken

 

[drgrant]

There are very few exceptions involving minors and firearms and just about all of them involve supervision. I'm going to say issuing a P&R would contradict the fact that the above pretty much covers possession of firearms by a minor.

That's great but that's not what the operative clause in the law says. That whole section of RSA 159 says NOTHING about the act of "possession" by minors- it's only discussing the circumstances an adult can legally provide a firearm to a minor.

-Mike

 

[Marcus99]

I have never heard of someone under 18 being issued a P&R License, but they will issue to residents under the age of 21. Regardless of state or statute, I think you would have a very difficult time convincing any chief to give a 14 y/o or anyone under the age of 18 a CCW.

 

[06LemansC6]

That's great but that's not what the operative clause in the law says. That whole section of RSA 159 says NOTHING about the act of "possession" by minors- it's only discussing the circumstances an adult can legally provide a firearm to a minor.

-Mike

I'll concede that to be true, but the OP asked if a minor can get a P&R license. I'll go back to what I posted earlier that the part of the law that states "and that the applicant is a suitable person to be licensed" pretty much covers a denial to issue. I would be surprised to find out that even a single P&R has been issued to a minor.

 

[Len-2A Training]

I recall reading about a 14 yo applying for a NH Resident permit. Don't recall if it was granted or not, but it raised a stink about the law not having a minumum age requirement.

Not certain if the discussion was here on NES or elsewhere, but a Google search might bring up something.

 

[Boghog1]

If you see my post about looking for someone in souhegan. reason I asked is the 16yo will be driving and working and won't be around mom all the time the 18yo shouldn't have a problem getting the P&R License if he wants to. mom will ultimately have to make the call but I wasn't going to suggest it unless she wants to

 

[drgrant]

I'll concede that to be true, but the OP asked if a minor can get a P&R license. I'll go back to what I posted earlier that the part of the law that states "and that the applicant is a suitable person to be licensed" pretty much covers a denial to issue. I would be surprised to find out that even a single P&R has been issued to a minor.

It might or might not. I wonder if there is any case law on the issue. Part of the problem is the court would have to contend with the fact that what Kmaurer said above is 100% true. There's nothing in the RSAs from preventing a 16 year old kid from walking around town with a revolver on her hip that a parent gave her to carry. People would "fuss" and "whine" but that doesn't make it illegal.

My memory might be playing tricks on me but I want to say there was an individual who was under 21 and wrote about wall hacking the NH permit
process, but that account might have been a different ballgame than this problem here.

I am smelling a tendency in this thread for people to go into horse braying mode at the possibility that a minor might actually be granted a carry license.

Bear in mind this has always been legal in VT (minors carrying handguns concealed with parental consent) and as far as I know there hasn't been a huge incidence rate of kids carrying concealed handguns running around irresponsibly with them as a result.

-Mike

 

[06LemansC6]

It might or might not. I wonder if there is any case law on the issue. Part of the problem is the court would have to contend with the fact that what Kmaurer said above is 100% true. There's nothing in the RSAs from preventing a 16 year old kid from walking around town with a revolver on her hip that a parent gave her to carry. People would "fuss" and "whine" but that doesn't make it illegal.

I agree. I was mostly commenting that I would be surprised if a P&R would be issued to a minor. I did not even comment as to whether or not it should be legal.

I am smelling a tendency in this thread for people to go into horse braying mode at the possibility that a minor might actually be granted a carry license.

I don't see it happening, the fact that several town websites indicate that you must be 18 years of age. Note that the websites don't say that it isn't legal. To me that indicates they may even accept the application, but if you're not at least 18 it's safe to expect it will be denied.

Bear in mind this has always been legal in VT (minors carrying handguns concealed with parental consent) and as far as I know there hasn't been a huge incidence rate of kids carrying concealed handguns running around irresponsibly with them as a result.

-Mike

I have no problem with a responsible 16 or 17 year old CCW. There really isn't much difference to the same 16 or 17 year old out shooting unsupervised. If we're talking about a 10 year old, I might have to disagree as they would lack to maturity to make proper choices when subject with a confrontation, and they would also lack the physical development to be able to retain said firearm. While I think there is a line, I don't have any desire for .gov to tell me where that line is. Much like most things in life there is no "one size fits all" answer.

The original question was can a minor child get a NH P&R permit. I guess the answer technically, yes they can. I doubt they will I'd be willing to bet that even if a minor has been issued one the vast majority will not be. Perhaps the OP should have asked "Will a minor be issued a P&R?"

 

[ScottS]

I know personally of at least one minor in the SoNH area with a P&R License. There may be others.

My dealer, who also knows this minor, keeps prodding me to have my daughter apply for one, but I don't feel she's ready.