Mass AWB’s days are numbered

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[Joeldiaz]

I would like to know why it takes years? Is the slow walk by design?

In general the legal system moves very slowly, but there is definitely some not necessary slow walking being done by some courts because they aren’t happy with Bruen and want to delay ruling positively on 2A cases as long as possible. The reason we’re in the situation we’re in now is due to courts pre-Bruen basically misapplying Heller and inventing a two step interest balancing test that pretty much amounted to “government wins because guns are bad.”

 

[Mass-diver]

Watering down a law, no matter how absurd, is profoundly difficult and rarely done voluntarily. Two exceptions:

1) Removing LTC required for pepper spray. Still must be sold by a licensed ammo dealer though.

2) Increasing LTC validity time from 4 to 6 years.

Would you prefer the "watered down" mag bag (date based grandfathering) or either (a) CT style registration of mags required, or (b) RI style "no grandfathering" ban?

I’m all for “watering down,” “softening the blow,” “getting them to use a little lube.” As I said, I think GOAL has done a solid job given the state we live in, I’m very surprised to see all the bashing in this thread.

With that said Bruen is a game changer obviously. Plus, the MA AWB is a mess, Healy’s edict has added so much confusion. She’s declared everything a AW (except true ‘94 pre ban stuff), so evil features don’t even matter any more. A 1999 AR is an AW, in her eyes, regardless if you pin the barrel and the stock. But she is offering amnesty? Imagine explaining this to someone from a normal state?

 

[Rob Boudrie]

Imagine explaining this to someone from a normal state?

I generally start with "If it makes sense once I am done explaining it, then I will have failed in correctly explaining how MA works".

 

[JGreen]

@JGreen

Thanks. GOAL members with questions, information, ideas and concerns, along with folks trying to get an LTC/FID are my priority and can call me at the GOAL office/cell phone anytime. I also visit many of the Commonwealth's 200+ plus non-profit clubs explaining the convoluted laws and regulations we face because of the pitiful lack of advocacy from fellow gun owners in this state. Perhaps we'll meet some time.

 

[Coyote33]

Gotta wait for those to work their way through the inferior courts first, which can take several years

Someone needs to light a fire under whoever is blocking this stuff up.

I don't expect any SCOTUS action on 2A cases other than "GVR - Bruen" for some time, unless an inferior circuit really steps on their dick.

Define "some time" please.

1) Removing LTC required for pepper spray. Still must be sold by a licensed ammo dealer though.

Wait, so you're saying the hardware store has an "ammo license"? What is required to get an "ammo license", anyhow?

 

[Darksideblues42]

Someone needs to light a fire under whoever is blocking this stuff up.



Define "some time" please.



Wait, so you're saying the hardware store has an "ammo license"? What is required to get an "ammo license", anyhow?

Some time - likely 5-10 years unfortunately, unless something so over the top makes them jump into the fray with a "What part of Text, History and Tradition did you judicial afterbirths not understand?"

 

[AaronT]

If all GOAL does is water down bad legislation, which is easier to fight in court:

1. Crazy MA moonbat law that is blatantly unconstitutional

Or

2. Watered down moonbat law that judges could easily rule are "common sense"

This is a false dichotomy.

After reading the whole thread, my sense is that GOAL's goal is not to "water down" the moonbat legislation, but to stop it from being passed at all. Thus instead of getting 10-12 moonbat laws in a year, we get 1 in the last 10 years (red flag laws). The end result is that, MA is not the WORST state for gun owners. It's a bad place to be a gun owner, but it's not CA, NY, NJ, or CT.

FWIW, I am not a member of GOAL, Comm2A, FPC or GOA, but I think it's time I was.

 

[Sniper (+)]

Surprised to see the negative comments about GOAL, I certainly think they are a quality organization that every MA gun owner should join. Podcast is worth listening to as well.

Ineffective. Only thing that matters these days is the breun ruling and lawsuit printers. Every dollar in this battle should go to carpet bombing the courts with endless lawsuits.

 

[EJFudd]

Jon is in charge of education @ GOAL. Just like NRA, GOAL's education department is the best and most valuable to the vast majority of gun owners. Since legislative work, while highly valuable, is not very visible. This is why having an education is so important to maintain positive image of an org like GOAL. Without it, folks will think GOAL is useless. Your opinion of GOAL is a perfect example of that.

Okay, now I understand. This makes sense and fits with what I'd heard. At my age and with life-long gun law involvement, I'm no longer training-focused (except for what I might have to do to qualify for a non-resident CT license), so no wonder that I've not been paying any attention to what GOAL has to offer in the training realm. Training is not my thing... pro-2A political involvement *is* my thing and how I measure the strength, relevance and effectiveness of pro-2A organizations.

 

[VetteGirlMA]

I’m all for “watering down,” “softening the blow,” “getting them to use a little lube.” As I said, I think GOAL has done a solid job given the state we live in, I’m very surprised to see all the bashing in this thread.

With that said Bruen is a game changer obviously. Plus, the MA AWB is a mess, Healy’s edict has added so much confusion. She’s declared everything a AW (except true ‘94 pre ban stuff), so evil features don’t even matter any more. A 1999 AR is an AW, in her eyes, regardless if you pin the barrel and the stock. But she is offering amnesty? Imagine explaining this to someone from a normal state?

To me it's time to pull out the 6 inch diameter, 3 foot long stainless steel dildo and stick it where the sun doesn't shine in Massachusetts.

 

[EJFudd]

The end result is that, MA is not the WORST state for gun owners. It's a bad place to be a gun owner, but it's not CA, NY, NJ, or CT.

That is sort of damning with faint praise... but give our MA Legislature and Maura just a little more time and we may re-take the number one anti-gunowner position yet again.

BTW, a lot of people in CT still think MA is far worse. But it may be a case of what you are familiar with vs. what looks and sounds worse across the border.

 

[Rob Boudrie]

This is a false dichotomy.

After reading the whole thread, my sense is that GOAL's goal is not to "water down" the moonbat legislation, but to stop it from being passed at all. Thus instead of getting 10-12 moonbat laws in a year, we get 1 in the last 10 years (red flag laws). The end result is that, MA is not the WORST state for gun owners. It's a bad place to be a gun owner, but it's not CA, NY, NJ, or CT.

FWIW, I am not a member of GOAL, Comm2A, FPC or GOA, but I think it's time I was.

That is the goal, but not always achievable.

I believe GOALs work is why we got date based grandfathering rather than "personally possessed" or "get papers for" > 10 round mags in the AW ban. You can not always prevent the opposition from taking territory.

 

[Darksideblues42]

That is the goal, but not always achievable.

I believe GOALs work is why we got date based grandfathering rather than "personally possessed" or "get papers for" > 10 round mags in the AW ban. You can not always prevent the opposition from taking territory.

Correct - the goal needs to be triage. Stop the bleeding, then save the limb.

 

[moojpg2]

To me it's time to pull out the 6 inch diameter, 3 foot long stainless steel dildo and stick it where the sun doesn't shine in Massachusetts.

I have a feeling a lot of our politicians in MA have already seen that video before. Maybe even tried it already.

 

[Cap'n Mike]

I think the fact that GOAL and Comm2A get anything done in this God forsaken state is a miracle.
I think that makes them Miracle Workers

 

[Toast]

Yes we have had Republicans but it would be an insult to rinos to call them rinos.

Double for that worthless pudding, Jane Swift.

 

[Coyote33]

All I can add is that Jon Green is a solid guy. Have known him a long time, and done many Women On Target and First Shots with him and his crew. The training is great, as are his presentations. He delivers the facts, a bit of enlightenment, and a little bit of entertainment all in one talk. If you've met him or heard him, you would know this.

 

[BigGreen2000]

All I can add is that Jon Green is a solid guy. Have known him a long time, and done many Women On Target and First Shots with him and his crew. The training is great, as are his presentations. He delivers the facts, a bit of enlightenment, and a little bit of entertainment all in one talk. If you've met him or heard him, you would know this.

+1 right there!!

 

[Dennis in MA]

I'm actually surprised that we aren't "shall issue" after Bruen . . .

To paraquote something I heard Jim Wallace say once - how long did it take for states to comply with the civil rights rulings in the 60's? IIRC, the federales had to send in troops at one point.

There is no way a no-free state is going to willingly give you freedom. It's against the nature of the State. They TAKE freedom, not give it. Ergo, it requires strong-arming to get them to stop.

 

[AaronT]

That is sort of damning with faint praise... but give our MA Legislature and Maura just a little more time and we may re-take the number one anti-gunowner position yet again.

BTW, a lot of people in CT still think MA is far worse. But it may be a case of what you are familiar with vs. what looks and sounds worse across the border.

Damning with faint praise, indeed!

I live in MA but grew up and still have a lot of friends and family in CT. Most folks in CT DO think that MA laws are worse, but from everything I've heard in conversations, the inverse is true. They also still think that MA has higher taxes (calling it Taxachusetts) but that's no longer the case either.

I would love to leave New England, but our family is here and so is my job.

 

[Joeldiaz]

I would love to leave New England, but our family is here and so is my job.

NH is still New England, and still a relatively short commute to MA depending on where you’re working.

 

[AaronT]

NH is still New England, and still a relatively short commute to MA depending on where you’re working.

I'd love to move to NH, but my better half's answer to that suggestion was, "We moved to MA to be closer to our family (in CT). We are not moving further away!"

 

[EJFudd]

I live in MA but grew up and still have a lot of friends and family in CT. Most folks in CT DO think that MA laws are worse, but from everything I've heard in conversations, the inverse is true. They also still think that MA has higher taxes (calling it Taxachusetts) but that's no longer the case either.

The truth is that the anti-gun/anti-gunowner laws in MA and CT are equally awful... just different... and depending on your history and interests, it's easy to form an opinion that one state is still a bit better or worse than the other.

 

[LT5]

To me it's time to pull out the 6 inch diameter, 3 foot long stainless steel dildo and stick it where the sun doesn't shine in Massachusetts.

Does it have to be stainless steel?
Or can we simply make one out of old bottle caps and rusty thumb tacks?

 

[Rob Boudrie]

Does it have to be stainless steel?
Or can we simply make one out of old bottle caps and rusty thumb tacks?

Even Lambs Have Teeth

 

[spt_1955]

Romney was governor in 2016? Did I hear that right? Where the f*** was I?

You were still wondering how Healy was AG in 1998.

 

[Varmint]

That is sort of damning with faint praise... but give our MA Legislature and Maura just a little more time and we may re-take the number one anti-gunowner position yet again.

BTW, a lot of people in CT still think MA is far worse. But it may be a case of what you are familiar with vs. what looks and sounds worse across the border.

I think if you just walk into Four Seasons and see what’s for sale you’d think Mass gun laws are as bad as CA. You have to educate yourself.

Not you, you know what I mean lol.

 

[spt_1955]

Well, that's a load of crock. I can think of at least four-five states that are worse, just off the top of my head. CA, CT, RI, HI, DC, and pretty soon VT.

Did they pass the law to make DC a state yet? Any list should have NY and NJ on it. If people have not done any research on HI they should. The laws in HI will blow your mind. How about the one that requires that even though you have a gun license you must have a doctor certify your mental health in order to apply for a permit to purchase a gun (that's right you need to apply to purchase every gun) and if you do not provide the certificate they can not only deny your purchase permit but they can confiscate your existing guns!!!!!

 

[spt_1955]

Funny how any discussion of GOAL brings out the NES'rs who joined 10-15 years ago and never became green members!!!