Mandatory Evacuations

[NIGHT_OWL]

OK.... Here is a legal question that I was just pondering regarding the situation in NO. If for some reason the Government, Federal, State, or Local issued a mandatory Evac order, would this nullify ones right to self defense?

Many news reports have stated that refusing to "evac" would leave one "on their own". To many this would be OK because they have prepared and have the means/supplies to ride out the event. But does that "order" from the state void your self defense rights?

Could the GOVt. claim in a SD trial that because Mr. Smith chose to stay in the effected area, that he knew in advance that the need to use deadly force may have been needed! Could they go further to state that if Mr. Smith had evacuated, he could have avoided the situation?

I believe that one should have the option to remain in such a scenario, and that his/her rights to SD should be valid/intact! But considering the SD laws on the books, could/should we consider this in our decisions regarding sheltering in place, or moving to a secondary local?

 

[pdm]

Non-compliance with "mandatory evacuation orders" is how you're labeled a criminal. And that's how they confiscate your guns from you.

 

[Scrivener]

I question whether a mere mayor has the authority to order a "mandatory evacuation." I suspect it would require the prior imposition of martial law, which only the governor can do.

 

[pdm]

I question whether a mere mayor has the authority to order a "mandatory evacuation." I suspect it would require the prior imposition of martial law, which only the governor can do.

What's authority got to do with anything?

 

[packingungal]

The mayor does proclaim the mandatory evacuation, and if people don't heed it they will not receive any emergency assistance during the "emergency".

It seems obvious that during the actual hurricane, emergency assistance is generally not available anyway, so this covers the "butt" of the city.

The proclamation only has to do with the city's attempt to provide assistance prior to an emergency -

 

[KMaurer]

If staying in a dangerous area after adequate notification was a bases for denying your right to self defense, then places like DC and Chicago would be able to... wait a minute. Never mind.

Mayors and other public officials try to bluff people into evacuating by claiming that it's "mandatory" or that "those who stay are completely on their own." The problem is that some people have unrealistically high regard for their own survival abilities. When they get into trouble, regardless of the statements of politicians, fire, police and other rescue workers end up risking their lives to help these clowns. I've got no problem with the ones who fully grasp the risks and can actually deal with them on their own; it's the clueless blow-hards whose grandstanding end up costing good people their lives that I loathe.

Ken

 

[Kalahari]

Well said..

 

[SemiAutoSam]

Depending on what State and or county your speaking of there may or may not be such a thing as "mandatory evacuation orders".

http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/537336_2

Non-compliance with "mandatory evacuation orders" is how you're labeled a criminal. And that's how they confiscate your guns from you.

 

[Jose]

Non-compliance with "mandatory evacuation orders" is how you're labeled a criminal. And that's how they confiscate your guns from you.

Maybe in Massachussetts.

In many states confiscation has been legally prohibited regrdless of evcuation orders or not.

 

[Jose]

What's authority got to do with anything?

Perhaps that we live under the rule of law, and not under a monarchy or dictatorship?

 

[packingungal]

If staying in a dangerous area after adequate notification was a bases for denying your right to self defense, then places like DC and Chicago would be able to... wait a minute. Never mind.

Mayors and other public officials try to bluff people into evacuating by claiming that it's "mandatory" or that "those who stay are completely on their own." The problem is that some people have unrealistically high regard for their own survival abilities. When they get into trouble, regardless of the statements of politicians, fire, police and other rescue workers end up risking their lives to help these clowns. I've got no problem with the ones who fully grasp the risks and can actually deal with them on their own; it's the clueless blow-hards whose grandstanding end up costing good people their lives that I loathe.

Ken

They are "on their own" during the actual hurricane. Once emergency services are on the scene - those who stayed behind can avail themselves of the services. They will not be refused assistance at that point. "Mandatory" is an overstatement of "advisement".

There are many "things" one can say about this whole process, but there is still that allowance of "choice". A freedom we seem to fight for, unless it creates an inconvenience. We need lots of clauses to freedom of choce....I guess.

 

[namedpipes]

Perhaps that we live under the rule of law, and not under a monarchy or dictatorship?

Give it time, son.

 

[SemiAutoSam]

I dont mean to sound like a broken record but I am of the opinion that we have been there for some time.

How many liberties removed from our grasp does it take to be considered conquered by the new US communist government ?

I could write a book pointing out how we as a people have been wronged by those that we voted to power but I dont think anyone here wants to read it.

Give it time, son.

 

[pdm]

Maybe in Massachussetts.

In many states confiscation has been legally prohibited regrdless of evcuation orders or not.

Perhaps that we live under the rule of law, and not under a monarchy or dictatorship?

You're under the misapprehension that I somehow approve of the overreaching of government officials. I'm merely pointing out that lack of authority has never stopped any bureaucrat with delusions of grandeur from doing completely illegal acts while whining about "the children" or "the common good". You can roll your eyes all you like at those of us in MA, but don't think that you're immune somehow from this infection. We shouldn't even need a separate law to prevent gun confiscations -- the government should never seize property without due process of law. But the fact is they do; whether it's a car, cash or a Colt 1911 shouldn't make a lick of difference.

 

[NIGHT_OWL]

I wonder if in a State like Ma, that some DA/ADA/basically a political appointee, could charge someone withe manslaughter do to not following the GOV's "so called orders"?

Think of a State like Mass. You stay at your home(fully supplied) and during the aftermath of the disaster, you are required to use deadly force.

I can see some DA charging that individual with "something" because they did not vacate as "ordered".

 

[Scrivener]

I see you have an over-active imagination and an underdeveloped understanding of spelling and punctuation.

On a related note, our enlightened legislature - on the eve of a triple-threat hurricane weekend - just killed the "Katrina bill."

 

[Coyote33]

Really? That is news here. Didn't see any update here:S.1401 Heads to Governor's Desk

Maybe if you have some official news, you could update that thread. Thanks.

 

[NIGHT_OWL]

I see you have an over-active imagination and an underdeveloped understanding of spelling and punctuation.

On a related note, our enlightened legislature - on the eve of a triple-threat hurricane weekend - just killed the "Katrina bill."

Sorry my imagination, spelling, and punctuation do not meet your standards. I'm also saddened that the "Katrina Bill" was killed!

Scrivener, Just a thought........ Could it be that there are good people who "suck" at spelling & punctuation? People who maybe are somewhat new to the "World of fireaems" that are put off by your insults? Yes, in most cultures, when you attack someones education/computer experience, it is considered, an insult!

I'm somewhat new to Northeastshooters.com, and just wanted to promote a honest, legit disscussion(Oops [SP]). Maybe I missed the requirment(Oops[SP]), that all members be collage educated, computer literate, and willing to be abused if deemed "unacceptable" to you or your ilk?

Dude.... take a pill, sip of your favorite spirite(Oops[SP]) or "whatever", but you really should learn to relax!

Could it be that your Douche box attitude directed at other members could be potential $$ & votes that gun owners and NES members need?

Man... If you and "some" others on the internet(Oops[SP]) would accept others "as they are", maybe.....

 

[dwarven1]

On a related note, our enlightened legislature - on the eve of a triple-threat hurricane weekend - just killed the "Katrina bill."

Scum-sucking little worms. Link?

 

[doobie]

Sorry my imagination, spelling, and punctuation do not meet your standards. I'm also saddened that the "Katrina Bill" was killed!

Scrivener, Just a thought........ Could it be that there are good people who "suck" at spelling & punctuation? People who maybe are somewhat new to the "World of fireaems" that are put off by your insults? Yes, in most cultures, when you attack someones education/computer experience, it is considered, an insult!

I'm somewhat new to Northeastshooters.com, and just wanted to promote a honest, legit disscussion(Oops [SP]). Maybe I missed the requirment(Oops[SP]), that all members be collage educated, computer literate, and willing to be abused if deemed "unacceptable" to you or your ilk?

Dude.... take a pill, sip of your favorite spirite(Oops[SP]) or "whatever", but you really should learn to relax!

Could it be that your Douche box attitude directed at other members could be potential $$ & votes that gun owners and NES members need?

Man... If you and "some" others on the internet(Oops[SP]) would accept others "as they are", maybe.....

NightOwl,

Welcome to Scrivener's Tough Love Club.

 

[Chris]

the bill has to be 'prepared' for the Gov's desk.

The legislature is not doing this.

So, in effect, the will of the people has been passed in the legislature and the powers that be refuse to allow that will to be done.

 

[Garys]

On a related note, our enlightened legislature - on the eve of a triple-threat hurricane weekend - just killed the "Katrina bill."

Not to quibble, but it's more of a single threat tropical storm weekend. Hanna is pretty definite, Ike is very unlikely to track this way and if it did, wouldn't be fore several days, and Josephine is still a tropical storm and more than likely will end up as a "fish storm".

Very unlike you to get that kind of thing wrong. Apparently you haven't been going to the "Weather Nerd" blog.

 

[Len-2A Training]

the bill has to be 'prepared' for the Gov's desk.

The legislature is not doing this.

So, in effect, the will of the people has been passed in the legislature and the powers that be refuse to allow that will to be done.

There was no way that they were going to allow for any penalty to those that illegally confiscate legal arms under color of law.

Even if it did pass and become law, I'm convinced that if the SHTF, Boston would confiscate and Mumbles and gang could care less about the law, judges wouldn't do anything more than order the return of that which was confiscated, Boston would drag it's feet and "lose" a lot of items, etc. [Think how many got their guns returned in NOLA . . . same would happen in MA. }

In short, a law doesn't make someone do the legal thing! Only a "moral compass" does that, and you don't need a law if you have a properly operating "moral compass"! Enough said?

 

[dwarven1]

Y'know, every time I see this thread, I see "Mandatory Evacuations" right above "NIGHT_OWL"... and I keep thinking of owl pellets.

Just an unfortunate juxtaposition of words - "evacuations" and "owl", but I keep snickering when I see it.

 

[drgrant]

Sorry my imagination, spelling, and punctuation do not meet your standards. I'm also saddened that the "Katrina Bill" was killed!

Scrivener, Just a thought........ Could it be that there are good people who "suck" at spelling & punctuation? People who maybe are somewhat new to the "World of fireaems" that are put off by your insults? Yes, in most cultures, when you attack someones education/computer experience, it is considered, an insult!

I'm somewhat new to Northeastshooters.com, and just wanted to promote a honest, legit disscussion(Oops [SP]). Maybe I missed the requirment(Oops[SP]), that all members be collage educated, computer literate, and willing to be abused if deemed "unacceptable" to you or your ilk?

Dude.... take a pill, sip of your favorite spirite(Oops[SP]) or "whatever", but you really should learn to relax!

Could it be that your Douche box attitude directed at other members could be potential $$ & votes that gun owners and NES members need?

Man... If you and "some" others on the internet(Oops[SP]) would accept others "as they are", maybe.....

(thread drift)

Wow! That has to be the most amount of emoticons I've ever seen used in a single post on NES.

(sorry, couldn't resist, we now return to the thread...)

-Mike

 

[seanc]

I see you have an over-active imagination and an underdeveloped understanding of spelling and punctuation.QUOTE]

A little harsh. But, I do undersand and appreciate the sentiment. To be a bit more constructive and offer a suggestion. Is there any way to add a spell check to the submit/ preview screen?


I once shot an elephant in my pajamas.
How he got in my pajamas I'll never know.

Eats shoots and leaves.
Eats, shoots and leaves.

 

[Admin]

It's Dead guys I hope you MA residents raise hell with your local reps, this is complete and utter bullshit.

 

[Scrivener]

Wow! That has to be the most amount of emoticons I've ever seen used in a single post on NES.

Those who cannot write can at least draw.

And he colored within the lines.