Making purchase with expired LTC

[MG2112]

All

My LTC expired in April. I have submission confirmation from my towns licensing authority that I submitted my application prior
to expiration of my LTC. The letter is signed by Weymouth PD Licensing authority showing proof of submission. According to Massachusetts state law

Chapter 264 of the Acts of 2014, sections 36 and 54 respectively, creates and indefinite grace period for FID card
and LTC licensees who submit a renewal application of their licensing authority prior to the expiration of their current license.
The current card/license will remain valid after the expiration date of the card/license until the application for renewal is either approved or denied."

https://malegislature.gov/Laws/SessionLaws/Acts/2014/Chapter284

I run the "generate firearms licence validation" on the firearms portal and it states my LTC status as active.

My question. Anyone tried to make a purchase with expired LTC. Any push-back or heat
from the LGS? Are most FFL's aware of this? I may call around tomorrow morning and ask.


Thanks

 

[Mbous]

It may depend on the LGS but my only experience was buying ammo. I known when my LTC had expired and was waiting months for the state to get off its ass and finish processing the renewal that my LGS had no problem selling me ammo but Walmart said that the renewal letter and my expired LTC was no good for buying ammo.

 

[sschevy]

Problem you run into is using a expired LTC on the federal 4473

they (the ATF) don’t like that , ask me how I know

 

[CrackPot]

Relative to the 4473, you don't need the LTC as ID for a 4473. The 4473 has two ID requirements, one for proof that you are who you say you are and ANY government picture ID satisfies this (drivers license, haulers license, etc). The second is proof of residence. Again, a nice government picture ID proves this but so does an electric bill with your name on it.

Then there is MA law. You need a valid LTC. This means doing the Validation if the card itself says expired. It needs to be done by the FFL at the time of sale. It will give a validation period of like 24 hours. If this does not work, no sale. If it does, all good.

If your FFL has a problem, pick a new FFL. I see this occasionally though more often since covid. I dont care about the slip of paper receipt you have. If the license does not validate, I cant do the FA10 so the paper is useless. Direct to Validation.

There is a clear "you are screwed" scenario. Your old LTC expired but you are in grace period. They have printed and sent your new license to the town. The old license PIN now wont work since there is a new license in the system. You dont have it. So you dont possess your good license so no purchase for you. Happens when the local police slow roll giving you your new license. Seen that too...

 

[CrackPot]

Problem you run into is using a expired LTC on the federal 4473

they (the ATF) don’t like that , ask me how I know

Self inflicted gun shot it sounds line. You dont need to use their LTC as ID on the 4473, just any valid picture ID to prove who they are and any document for residency (does not need to be picture ID). LTC use is just a convenience but not once expired.

 

[bigben111435]

I renewed my license in 2018, bought a firearm in 2019 using old pin number and it went through.
Informed the LGS, nothing....

 

[drgrant]

Self inflicted gun shot it sounds line. You dont need to use their LTC as ID on the 4473, just any valid picture ID to prove who they are and any document for residency (does not need to be picture ID). LTC use is just a convenience but not once expired.

The one purchase I made the FFL had me supply a copy of the EOPS receipt but also my MA DL which was current....

 

[CrackPot]

The one purchase I made the FFL had me supply a copy of the EOPS receipt but also my MA DL which was current....

All FFLs are different and have their own rules, some based on the law, some based on what Joe-Bob told them over his 7th beer.

When you break it down into federal requirements and state requirements it is pretty easy. Federal is picture ID + proof of residence. State is VALID LTC/FID. The receipt is proof you submitted, not proof of validity. You can even skip the Validation step and go directly to the MIRCS transfer step if you don't mind canceling the 4473 should the transfer in MIRCS fail. I do the validation so I don't waste my time on the 4473 when the LTC is not valid.

Its like buying AR lowers, or buying a rifle out of state, or... Every FFL/Dealer has their own crazy rules

 

[MG2112]

Update.....called two LGS this morning. Both said no purchases but OK for carry, possession, ammo etc. I think I would most likley get the
same answer if I called two more. Thanks for all the good knowledge gents.

 

[drgrant]

Update.....called two LGS this morning. Both said no purchases but OK for carry, possession, ammo etc. I think I would most likley get the
same answer if I called two more. Thanks for all the good knowledge gents.

Keep calling around. Make sure you explain that you have the official state renewal receipt...

 

[MG2112]

Keep calling around. Make sure you explain that you have the official state renewal receipt...

I did both times. I will make some additional calls. Thanks

 

[CrackPot]

Update.....called two LGS this morning. Both said no purchases but OK for carry, possession, ammo etc. I think I would most likley get the
same answer if I called two more. Thanks for all the good knowledge gents.

Or call me. @Dean Safety is my dealer account. If your LTC validates, you are good to go

 

[sschevy]

Self inflicted gun shot it sounds line. You dont need to use their LTC as ID on the 4473, just any valid picture ID to prove who they are and any document for residency (does not need to be picture ID). LTC use is just a convenience but not once expired.

As stated in my previous reply

ask me how I know , I got bent over and sent through the ringer during a audit

You should rephrase your comment to

“you shouldn’t need to use their LTC”

because every ATF pencil pusher will have a different thought on the matter while they are combing through your paperwork looking for things to take pictures of

 

[CrackPot]

As stated in my previous reply

ask me how I know , I got bent over and sent through the ringer during a audit

You should rephrase your comment to

“you shouldn’t need to use their LTC”

because every ATF pencil pusher will have a different thought on the matter while they are combing through your paperwork looking for things to take pictures of

I’ve met all the Boston, NH and CT office inspectors. They can have different opinions all being human. But when countered with a joint reading of the regulation and rulings they always got to the right place. All of them are reasonable.

But if you used an expired LTC as picture ID then that would be a violation.

 

[jpm]

I've made a purchase using an expired LTC with the renewal paperwork in hand at Four Seasons last year.