MA LTC with annulled NH drug conviction

[Bobby_Hill]

Hey guys, I've been wanting to get my MA LTC for some time, but I've been putting it off because of some legal trouble I got into about 6 years ago. I was arrested and convicted for possession of marijuana in NH since then I had the record annulled. The application of course specifically asks about drug convictions and what I read is that this is a statutory disqualification.

Will this be a problem for me? I asked the police chief about my situation (don't know him personally, just dropped him an email) and was told that I did have to disclose the conviction even though it was annulled and that the state would make a decision if I was disqualified or not. Then it would be up to him, but I do live in a green town and I'm productive member of society.

All I found was one thread here from 2014 about somebody who had a similar situation, not sure their crime, but they had a NH conviction annulled and got a MA LTC and had to provide a copy of the annulment paperwork. And then another thread on one of those ask lawyer forums where they said that the annulment meant jack as far as MA is concerned and that it is still a disqualification (seems to be the case for pretty much everything actually, unless you just lie).

I think I'm going to do it even though I risk being denied and that brings a new set of issues. Just kind of wonder if this is a "Don't bother" scenario or if I have good odds. I realize I can appeal even if denied, but then that puts my name out on the public record and advertises to the world something I've done my best to hide because of situations like this.

 

[ISOTOX]

Don’t have much to add, but I sincerely wish you good luck and be prepared for the NES keyboard commands there are some real a**h***s!

P.S there are some really good knowledgeable people on NES. As well.

 

[whacko]

Hey guys, I've been wanting to get my MA LTC for some time, but I've been putting it off because of some legal trouble I got into about 6 years ago. I was arrested and convicted for possession of marijuana in NH since then I had the record annulled. The application of course specifically asks about drug convictions and what I read is that this is a statutory disqualification.

Will this be a problem for me? I asked the police chief about my situation (don't know him personally, just dropped him an email) and was told that I did have to disclose the conviction even though it was annulled and that the state would make a decision if I was disqualified or not. Then it would be up to him, but I do live in a green town and I'm productive member of society.

All I found was one thread here from 2014 about somebody who had a similar situation, not sure their crime, but they had a NH conviction annulled and got a MA LTC and had to provide a copy of the annulment paperwork. And then another thread on one of those ask lawyer forums where they said that the annulment meant jack as far as MA is concerned and that it is still a disqualification (seems to be the case for pretty much everything actually, unless you just lie).

I think I'm going to do it even though I risk being denied and that brings a new set of issues. Just kind of wonder if this is a "Don't bother" scenario or if I have good odds. I realize I can appeal even if denied, but then that puts my name out on the public record and advertises to the world something I've done my best to hide because of situations like this.

Contact a reputable fire arms attorney for a consultation before you apply.

Wish you the best of luck.

End thread.

 

[Matt_SERE]

Where are you a Resident? Appears to be MA.

Where were you a Resident at the time of conviction?

I think I'm going to do it even though I risk being denied and that brings a new set of issues. Just kind of wonder if this is a "Don't bother" scenario or if I have good odds. I realize I can appeal even if denied, but then that puts my name out on the public record and advertises to the world something I've done my best to hide because of situations like this.

You are crazy to apply knowing you will be denied. A denial will need to be listed for the rest of your life. Give the good people here more time and answer what you can.

Good luck.

 

[Queen Bee]

well the easiest way would to go to a NH police office, ask for a full background check on yourself and see if this drug case was actually expunged / annulled..

 

[Bobby_Hill]

Don’t have much to add, but I sincerely wish you good luck and be prepared for the NES keyboard commands there are some real a**h***s!

P.S there are some really good knowledgeable people on NES. As well.

Aint nobody can accuse me of not doing research on this. I've read damn near every thread on the internet about annulment and expungement and how it will be treated by various agencies.

Contact a reputable fire arms attorney for a consultation before you apply.

Wish you the best of luck.

End thread.

Where are you a Resident? Appears to be MA.

Where were you a Resident at the time of conviction?



You are crazy to apply knowing you will be denied. A denial will need to be listed for the rest of your life. Give the good people here more time and answer what you can.

Good luck.

I'm not ready to apply yet, still had to take the basic course. Yeah I just planned on getting some opinions here, but maybe I will consult an attorney.

well the easiest way would to go to a NH police office, ask for a full background check on yourself and see if this drug case was actually expunged / annulled..

Hmm so I already told the police chief my situation (in email no less) and I probably better include it on the form now. I have answered the have you ever been arrested question in the past with "No", but I figure these people actually have the resources to check if that's accurate or not.
What I read is that it's much better to disclose it and maybe not be denied because of the annulment than to have it discovered I 'lied' on the form. The chief was pretty terse so I didn't follow up, I thought about asking him to run a III on me, wasn't sure if they like doing that kind of thing on request or not. It shouldn't matter who runs it right? In any case in NH annulled crimes are considered gone except if you are on trial again they can use the priors against you, so I think that means they keep track and that it's still in the III.

 

[Bobby_Hill]

Where are you a Resident? Appears to be MA.

Where were you a Resident at the time of conviction?

Yeah I'm a MA resident and was MA resident when I got the NH conviction.

 

[Rob Boudrie]

1. An anullment or expungement is not a disqualifier in MA, but can be used against you.

2. MA police departments do not recognize the concept of "legal fiction" in which some anullment/expungements actually give you the right to answer "no" regarding court appearances, arrest, etc and have the answer to be considered legally true. Not disclosing is a high stakes game and expect denial for lying on the application if you get caught.

 

[Deleted member 67409]

Aint nobody can accuse me of not doing research on this. I've read damn near every thread on the internet about annulment and expungement and how it will be treated by various agencies.

I'm not ready to apply yet, still had to take the basic course. Yeah I just planned on getting some opinions here, but maybe I will consult an attorney...

There's lawyers in Mass who have experience with similar cases. Just sayin'.

 

[appraiser]

Lawyer up, answer the questions truthfully... they cops can jam you up pretty good for an innocent mistake when answering a question, we say mistake, they say perjury or some such thing.

The tide is turning on Pot, most enlightened departments won't care if it was small amount/personal use.... get a charge of possession with intent to distribute and expungement or not you are FUBAR'd.

The other reason you want to lawyer up, and when you go in for the first meeting they will want a copy of your CORI ( MA residents can get it online, if you are out of state it is a effn hassle) , the documents from the court from the arrest/charge thru to the expungement... all of it.... is because you do not want to be one of the people that manage to get a LTC or FID issued and then you try to buy something from a FFL and find the Feds consider you a prohibited person... and that will make your life really complicated.

 

[nstassel]

You are not disqualified and no police chief can decide whether you are disqualified or not. They can however use the case to determine lack of suitability. I doubt that a judge would side with them if they believed a sole drug charge, now annulled, would destroy one's suitability. Be accurate on the application though.

 

[robjax]

Lawyer up, Lawyer up, Lawyer up, Lawyer up!!!!!

it's been said many times here....Lawyer up....

Do not apply until you speak to a Lawyer.....

That's the best advice you can get on here.

We hear stories that people post or get from the news but very few of us are lawyers and those that are will not council you on an open forum.

Well, at least not the good ones...lol

Good Luck!!!

 

[citoriguy]

Call one of the lawyers that specialize in gun laws. There are several listed on this forum.

I too live in a green town, and was arrested when I was in college 20+ years ago (ouch - that hurt to type!) for underage possession of alcohol at an on-campus party in Florida. Something like 40 people were arrested that night. I paid a fine, did community service, and the charges were thrown out, but I called Jason Guida and he helped me prepare the application. I did answer the question “yes,” and wrote a detailed explanation, and I have an unrestricted LTC.

Granted I had a lot more time between my issue and my application than you do now, and it was alcohol, not weed, so you shouldn’t take my experience as any indication that you’d have success. Seriously - call a lawyer. It may cost a bit, but it will be worth it in the long run.

 

[Rob Boudrie]

The only not to pay $200 or so for an office consult is if you would rather lose any chance at an LTC than lose a couple of C notes. It's a very simple equation.

 

[Bobby_Hill]

1. An anullment or expungement is not a disqualifier in MA, but can be used against you.

So I'm not exactly sure what you mean. The conviction is a disqualifier, but will the state respect the annulment in regards to the automatic disqualification?

Lawyer up, answer the questions truthfully... they cops can jam you up pretty good for an innocent mistake when answering a question, we say mistake, they say perjury or some such thing.

The tide is turning on Pot, most enlightened departments won't care if it was small amount/personal use.... get a charge of possession with intent to distribute and expungement or not you are FUBAR'd.

The other reason you want to lawyer up, and when you go in for the first meeting they will want a copy of your CORI ( MA residents can get it online, if you are out of state it is a effn hassle) , the documents from the court from the arrest/charge thru to the expungement... all of it.... is because you do not want to be one of the people that manage to get a LTC or FID issued and then you try to buy something from a FFL and find the Feds consider you a prohibited person... and that will make your life really complicated.

Yeah kind of a bizarre scenario where weed is legal in MA currently and was decriminalized in MA when I got in trouble and is now decriminalized in NH. I was kind of hoping the chief would tell me it's not considered a controlled substance anymore so it's all good :naive:
In any case it doesn't matter what the police department thinks because it comes down to a question of automatic disqualification. I couldn't find anything on the official state websites, only the town police department websites. But it appears the Firearms Records Bureau considers this conviction an automatic disqualifier. Couldn't find anything official on whether the annulment counts or not.
Also from what I can tell the state fixed the problem of some people having a FID (but DQ from LTC as I possibly am) which means they are federally prohibited - what a mess. I am not federally prohibited (except some scenario like I described where the state does something weird, but I'm not aware of anything like that).

You are not disqualified and no police chief can decide whether you are disqualified or not. They can however use the case to determine lack of suitability. I doubt that a judge would side with them if they believed a sole drug charge, now annulled, would destroy one's suitability. Be accurate on the application though.

Basically see above, the FRB has a set of automatic disqualifiers of which this is one. At least I think so, I could only find this on town police department websites and my police chief didn't say one way or the other. It's not just pot, unfortunately, it's a controlled substance. My only hope is the annulment.

Granted I had a lot more time between my issue and my application than you do now, and it was alcohol, not weed, so you shouldn’t take my experience as any indication that you’d have success. Seriously - call a lawyer. It may cost a bit, but it will be worth it in the long run.

Unfortunately it's totally different. I actually got in trouble for alcohol at the same time, didn't even bother to mention it because from what I can tell it isn't a disqualifier.

Everyone else, I appreciate the responses. I'm pretty well convinced to see a lawyer now, I'll pony up the cash it's probably worth the peace of mind. Heh maybe I just wanted an excuse to move to NH though.

 

[JRT]

Where are you a Resident? Appears to be MA.

Where were you a Resident at the time of conviction?



You are crazy to apply knowing you will be denied. A denial will need to be listed for the rest of your life. Give the good people here more time and answer what you can.

Good luck.

Does Mass have a question asking if you have been denied?

 

[42!]

Does Mass have a question asking if you have been denied?

Yes, I think most states do. Those that have licensing.

 

[whacko]

So I'm not exactly sure what you mean. The conviction is a disqualifier, but will the state respect the annulment in regards to the automatic disqualification?


Yeah kind of a bizarre scenario where weed is legal in MA currently and was decriminalized in MA when I got in trouble and is now decriminalized in NH. I was kind of hoping the chief would tell me it's not considered a controlled substance anymore so it's all good :naive:
In any case it doesn't matter what the police department thinks because it comes down to a question of automatic disqualification. I couldn't find anything on the official state websites, only the town police department websites. But it appears the Firearms Records Bureau considers this conviction an automatic disqualifier. Couldn't find anything official on whether the annulment counts or not.
Also from what I can tell the state fixed the problem of some people having a FID (but DQ from LTC as I possibly am) which means they are federally prohibited - what a mess. I am not federally prohibited (except some scenario like I described where the state does something weird, but I'm not aware of anything like that).


Basically see above, the FRB has a set of automatic disqualifiers of which this is one. At least I think so, I could only find this on town police department websites and my police chief didn't say one way or the other. It's not just pot, unfortunately, it's a controlled substance. My only hope is the annulment.


Unfortunately it's totally different. I actually got in trouble for alcohol at the same time, didn't even bother to mention it because from what I can tell it isn't a disqualifier.

Everyone else, I appreciate the responses. I'm pretty well convinced to see a lawyer now, I'll pony up the cash it's probably worth the peace of mind. Heh maybe I just wanted an excuse to move to NH though.

See bold. It doesn't appear you are aware at all of the mass licensing system. What we are telling you is that even if the conviction is NOT an automatic disqualifier......or even if the annulment makes it LEGAL for the licensing officer to technically grant you the ltc.......he can deny you based solely on his discression or opinion. You need a lawyer to help you through the process.

 

[allen-1]

Does Mass have a question asking if you have been denied?

See 13:
http://www.newbedfordpd.com/wp-content/uploads/forms-firearms-application.pdf

 

[Bobby_Hill]

See bold. It doesn't appear you are aware at all of the mass licensing system. What we are telling you is that even if the conviction is NOT an automatic disqualifier......or even if the annulment makes it LEGAL for the licensing officer to technically grant you the ltc.......he can deny you based solely on his discression or opinion. You need a lawyer to help you through the process.

I'm well aware of that aspect, actually I wasn't really worried about that part. All I can do is show I don't use drugs anymore and I'm a productive member of society, and all that. I live in a green town so I figure as long as I don't give them a reason not to grant it it should be good.

 

[42!]

I'm well aware of that aspect, actually I wasn't really worried about that part. All I can do is show I don't use drugs anymore and I'm a productive member of society, and all that. I live in a green town so I figure as long as I don't give them a reason not to grant it it should be good.

Keep in mind that the green/red ratings commonly referred to are based on issuing unrestricted v. restricted LTCs, not issued/denied.

 

[Nick Fury]

In any case it doesn't matter what the police department thinks...

It is clear that you need to do some more reading...

 

[Bobby_Hill]

Keep in mind that the green/red ratings commonly referred to are based on issuing unrestricted v. restricted LTCs, not issued/denied.

Oh yeah you're right.

It is clear that you need to do some more reading...

I'm just saying the states decision trumps the police department. I could have phrased it better. If the state rejects me the police can't give me one anyways.

 

[JRT]

Yes, I think most states do. Those that have licensing.

I was curious as I’ve seen people go on about a denial. Pennsylvania does not ask if you have been denied. I’ve lived around the country a fair bit and can’t recall ever being asked.

 

[Junior314]

Consult a lawyer.

It’s Massachusetts.

 

[allen-1]

I was curious as I’ve seen people go on about a denial. Pennsylvania does not ask if you have been denied. I’ve lived around the country a fair bit and can’t recall ever being asked.

From Macon County Georgia, not denial:
http://www.maconbibb.us/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/Bibb-County-Weapons-Carry-License-Application.pdf

 

[JRT]

From Macon County Georgia, not denial:
http://www.maconbibb.us/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/Bibb-County-Weapons-Carry-License-Application.pdf

View attachment 299091

That is the longest LTC app I have ever seen!

 

[allen-1]

I was curious as I’ve seen people go on about a denial. Pennsylvania does not ask if you have been denied. I’ve lived around the country a fair bit and can’t recall ever being asked.

Here you go, CT:
https://portal.ct.gov/-/media/DESPP/CSP/files/DPS-799-C.pdf?la=en




I currently have a CT permit, after having my CT permit revoked. I am legally able to state that I've never been arrested because the charges were nolled. And YES I was very careful to make sure of that through my attorney.

However, I also had to fill out this application VERY carefully because making any sort of misstatement on it is a serious problem.

 

[SSShooter]

Everyone else, I appreciate the responses. I'm pretty well convinced to see a lawyer now, I'll pony up the cash it's probably worth the peace of mind. Heh maybe I just wanted an excuse to move to NH though.

If you're thinking of moving to NH, keep in mind that if you want to carry in MA you'll need a MA non-resident LTC and still go through a similar process.

 

[bigpick]

OP, have you had any arrests in Ma or is the N.H. thing it?